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Joined: 2005/6/17
Posts: 285


prayer, bible study,evangleism, and if they are married, keep them accountable to minstering to their familes.. doing things together or in small groups, taking a trip with some of them helps( for example , go evanglize a city that is not your own, the ride up and back, and the experiance draws the men together)...., and try to stay away from being the glue that keeps them together, encourage that they meet on their own.


 2008/7/16 19:31Profile


It seems as though they are speaking more of their legacy not their reputation.

June 18, 2008
Compelled To Compete With Integrity

June 19, 2008
Competing With Integrity On The Line

 2008/7/16 19:54


Think I'll stick with Spurgeon & Ravenhill.

This is waaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy of topic here, but I have been meaning to ask Krispy this for a while.

Krispy, are you aware that Spurgeon was very much a Calvinist?

 2008/7/16 22:22

 Re: Man 2 Man Express

I guess I should mention to that no, my husband is not going through a midlife crisis I just thought it was a good broadcast. :-)

 2008/7/17 3:37

Joined: 2007/6/25
Posts: 764


I think we get hung up on titles, though the bible doesn't say literally a "men's ministry" doesn't mean we shouldn't. I think it is a great idea to start this off. Men unfortunately have not been leading the church for awhile, you can bet the woman have been leading the charge.

I would start a weekly bible study that you combed through a book in the bible. You could also have a men's breakfast monthly at church and have a guest speaker come in. Maybe serving in the community, helping single moms and widows. You might find that you have some men that are handy with cars or in construction. Maybe grow into doing some street evangelism, passing out tracts or something like that. Mostly I think anything you do with a strong emphasis on bible study and discipleship, you are on the right track.

 2008/7/17 6:49Profile

Joined: 2006/3/24
Posts: 108
Rochester, New York


I was a part of a "men's" ministry for about 10 years... There is definately a problem with men in the church not being followers of Christ, denying self, turning from sin which results in them not leading their families and children and much more. Getting a bunch of churched men who most likely may be false converts or truly not saved and getting them "pumped" up for Jesus and trying to jazz them up to be manly men does not work. For the entire time I was in the men's group, it didn't work for me. It didn't change me, give me a hunger for Christ, repentance, turning from sin, the word, it just made me more prideful and puffed up as a "man". Men need to get on their faces, seek God, and repent of their sin and have a true revival and not read "manly" books written by mainstream Christian authors. they need to get out and turn from sin and repent. It was not until I got away from the "men's manly club" and started to witness and repent did I see any change in my life. I agree with Greg's 2nd post that Men's groups are not Biblical..Amen.

Doug Renz

 2008/7/17 8:29Profile


Krispy, are you aware that Spurgeon was very much a Calvinist?

Are you aware that Spurgeon was perhaps the most non-Calvinist Calvinist there ever was? Yes, he espoused Calvinism, but then he would turn right around and preach from a non-Calvinistic perspective. Especially on matters of evangelism. So much so that he angered many of the Calvinist theologians of the day.

I think I am perhaps in the same camp with Spurgeon... I am a Calvinistic Armenian.


 2008/7/17 8:40

 Re: 'wild at heart'

The book by eldredge is nothing but fool's gold.

It's popularity is characteristic of our age.

What is worse is that professing christians promote this garbage. Which should not surprise us as Joel Osteen's book 'Your Best Life Now' has gotten such rave reviews as well.

The deceived and the deceivers are growing at an alarming rate. The prophet Jeremiah in chapter 5:30,31 sums this all up when he says, "A wonderful and horrible thing is committed in the land;The prophets prophesy falsely,and the priests bear rule by their means;and my people love to have it so:and what will ye do in the end thereof?"

Rev. 22:11 "He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still."

One reader comments on "Wild at heart". If
I were to write a book that was a parody of the
Christian men's movement, I could do no better than to write "Wild at Heart". However, John Eldredge beat me to it.

This is a sad book - sad in proving how far the Church has fallen from its roots. Francis Schaeffer has said that what you find in the world you will now find in the Church seven years later.

By now, we are all familiar with the laments: feminism stole our destiny, our fathers are the cause of our problems, a real man is only truly fulfilled by lugging around a broadsword, and lastly, that we all have a one-track mind. Mix in an appropriate amount of psychobabble, some sprigs of Hemingway and Spillane, and a sprinkling of random Bible verses, and you have
the perfect recipe for disaster.

Christian men of a hundred years ago would in no ways recognize this book as being Christian, so egregious are the errors and doctrinal deficiencies. A couple cases in point:

1) The amount of eisogesis that occurs in this book is staggering. Eldredge reads the Bible through the eyes of William Wallace (of "Braveheart" fame) rather than through God's eyes. For example, Eldredge heartily
advises his son to return pain for pain when the son is confronted by a bully, arguing that despite Jesus' admonitions to turn the other cheek, Jesus was a man's man, a carpenter who hung out with fishermen, therefore it is okay to return like for like. He quotes Jesus' driving the moneychangers out of the temple as a proof text. However, Eldredge totally forgets the entire Passion story, wherein Jesus would
NOT defend himself physically against his attackers,and went so far as to not even defend himself verbally. The focus of Jesus' anger as in the temple story is not on his own person, but the person of the Father. The Father was wronged, therefore the anger and actions are justified. We are not to seek justice for ourselves, but for those outside of us. Remember Romans 8:36 - "As it is written: 'For your sake we face death all day long; we are considered as sheep to be slaughtered.'" Read the life (and death) story of
any martyr and you will see the wrongheadedness of
Eldredge's beliefs.

2) The worship of self, especially as embodied by the unholy alliance of psychology and Christianity, is paramount in this book. It is all about what can be done for me, how I can find fulfillment, find my life.This mentality runs exactly counter to Matthew 10:39 -"Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it." Eldredge makes much of a "false life", but in the end the life he claims is true destroys his own arguments in a fit
of circular logic. The very men he claims as heroes mostly lived in a time before pop psychology and "finding oneself" came to the fore. We can admire men like Lincoln, Wallace, and Washington for their strength, but do you think that Lincoln sat around moping about the fact that his dad treated him badly?
Did he abandon his country because of personal
tragedies, like the death of his children, so he could instead blabber to his shrink about his personal needs going unmet? Despite the fact that Eldredge dismisses "sucking it up", the truth is that real Christian men do suck it up. They know that life is greater than their own needs and wants, therefore they crucify the self in order to pursue the greater need. Eldredge laments that Christian men are bored. I contend that if those same men every truly tasted the fulness of God by dying to self, then the staggering nature of the greater need outside their own search for
fulfillment would be made apparent to them and they would never know boredom again.

Is Eldredge right in that men are hurting? Yes, he
is.Yet, His deficiency is in his answers to those
problems. Unfortunately, he sees the world through a syncretistic lens that distorts his views. Because of this, "Wild at Heart" makes a caricature of everything it discusses. It poses a form of maleness and male Christianity that looks good on the surface, but is empty underneath. Read this book in the light of books like Edwards' "Religious Affections", Bonhoeffer's
"The Cost of Discipleship", and Schaeffer's "The Great Evangelical Disaster" to see it for what it is truly worth.

 2008/7/17 9:29

 Re: The Building Brothers Ministry

Here's something you might be interested in:

[url=]Building Brothers[/url]

[url=]Finding Today's Men of Issachar: by Dan Schaffer[/url]

 2008/7/17 18:22

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC


It should also be noted that Eldridge's book of being a manly man is looked at through the lense of the upper-middle class yuppie type. He's a prisoner of his cubical, thus, needs a William Wallace like experience to live through.

Jimmy H

 2008/7/17 18:29Profile

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