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stromboli
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Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44


 Is God all knowing

I know this has probably been beat to death on here as a topic, but would like to ask anyway. Is God all knowing, does he know whats going to happen before it happens, and if so is'nt that contrary to free will as far as salvation is concerned?

 2008/7/13 12:42Profile
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: Is God all knowing

God is the source of all knowledge, truth, and
wisdom. In His wisdom; He has a plan and purpose
for any one who will seek His truth. Nothing
happens that He is not aware and knowing; and
He knows us to the intents and secrets of our
heart. His understanding is infinite; His ways
surpassing searching out. If a man will not
yield to His sovereign will; then he will reap
the fruit of his selfish ways and suffer the
consequences!!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/7/13 13:29Profile
stromboli
Member



Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44


 Re:

Alright, then what is Gods sovereign will? I really don't care that much about this topic, I was asked by a friend to ask some christians about this topic. This seems to be a place where "christians" hang out, so I just thought I would ask. Is that o.k.?, or should I just take it somewhere else? I'm not trying to start an arguement just needed some answers that's all.

 2008/7/13 16:04Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Gods foreknowledge does not interfere with man's responsibility. God so love the world that whosoever believes in His Son Jesus would not have to perish but could have everlasting life

 2008/7/13 16:13Profile
stromboli
Member



Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44


 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Gods foreknowledge does not interfere with man's responsibility. God so love the world that whosoever believes in His Son Jesus would not have to perish but could have everlasting life



Thank you for the friendly answer rbanks. O.k. but if God already knows in advance whos going to heaven and whos going to hell then how do we really have a free will?

 2008/7/13 16:38Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hi stromboli...

I think that the fallacy in such a question is that we don't fully understand either the nature of God or the nature of Eternity.

Eternity, in my estimation, is a completely different realm than our universe (where time operates as a control). God sits upon a throne in Eternity. As such, He knows "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10). In fact, God is the "Alpha and Omega" and the "Beginning and the End." He is Eternal. This is how He knew us before we were born...because He sits in Eternity.

I've heard the argument that God sits in Eternity already -- with those who were born BEFORE us and those who will be born AFTER us as well. In other words, when we die -- we pass through the realm of time and into the realm of timelessness known as Eternity. This is why we can "sleep with our fathers" but also go straight to Judgment. At that meeting -- EVERYONE (ALL) will stand before the Creator of all things and an account of our lives will be revealed (as written in the books). Our standing in Eternity is reflective solely upon the appearance of our name in that Book of Life (which sits in Eternity). Our name appears in the Book of Life as a condition of our relationship with Christ within this temporary realm called "life."

Unfortunately, I fear that our attempts to understand such things might cause us to become guilty of the same guesses as Job and Co. God doesn't need for us to understand all of His ways. Rather, He simply needs for us to trust Him in all things. Believe me: There is no contradition in His ways. What seems like a contradiction to us is actually just the limitation of our own understanding.

Thus, I feel that we should focus on those things of which we are sure. For instance, "[i]Whosoever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved[/i]." We shouldn't try to reason whether or not we are part of some "predestined" group -- because we could never know such a thing on this side of Eternity! Rather, we just need to realize the need to call upon the Name of the Lord and to remain in His presence!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/7/13 16:52Profile
stromboli
Member



Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44


 Re:

Quote:

ccchhhrrriiisss wrote:
Hi stromboli...

I think that the fallacy in such a question is that we don't fully understand either the nature of God or the nature of Eternity.

Eternity, in my estimation, is a completely different realm than our universe (where time operates as a control). God sits upon a throne in Eternity. As such, He knows "the end from the beginning" (Isaiah 46:10). In fact, God is the "Alpha and Omega" and the "Beginning and the End." He is Eternal. This is how He knew us before we were born...because He sits in Eternity.

I've heard the argument that God sits in Eternity already -- with those who were born BEFORE us and those who will be born AFTER us as well. In other words, when we die -- we pass through the realm of time and into the realm of timelessness known as Eternity. This is why we can "sleep with our fathers" but also go straight to Judgment. At that meeting -- EVERYONE (ALL) will stand before the Creator of all things and an account of our lives will be revealed (as written in the books). Our standing in Eternity is reflective solely upon the appearance of our name in that Book of Life (which sits in Eternity). Our name appears in the Book of Life as a condition of our relationship with Christ within this temporary realm called "life."

Unfortunately, I fear that our attempts to understand such things might cause us to become guilty of the same guesses as Job and Co. God doesn't need for us to understand all of His ways. Rather, He simply needs for us to trust Him in all things. Believe me: There is no contradition in His ways. What seems like a contradiction to us is actually just the limitation of our own understanding.

Thus, I feel that we should focus on those things of which we are sure. For instance, "[i]Whosoever calls upon the Name of the Lord shall be saved[/i]." We shouldn't try to reason whether or not we are part of some "predestined" group -- because we could never know such a thing on this side of Eternity! Rather, we just need to realize the need to call upon the Name of the Lord and to remain in His presence!

:-)

Ive never heard it put that way. Alot to think about. We were talking about how when satan was created how that the bible says god made him perfect and he was perfect until iniquity was found in his heart. The fact that his sin totally took god by surprise because he was perfect until the iniquity was found in him sounds like god really does give us all choices even angels and he expects nothing but good from us were the ones who make the choices to do our own will.

 2008/7/13 17:07Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

I have thought this same thought before but as I began to read the bible about God being all powerful, all present, and all knowing I began to magnify God’s greatness. I began to realize that He was Just, Holy, and Love. I saw that God wants to be loved and He gave man freewill to love and obey or to disobey. God’s predestination is in His Son Jesus Christ before the foundation of the world. It has been said and is true that if one fails to plan then he has planed to fail. God never fails. God always plans everything, nothing ever surprises God.

Everyone because of the fall is on their way to hell, and the bible says the angels of God rejoice over one sinner who repents. It is not a decision about who goes to hell or Heaven. God wants everybody to accept His Son and what His Son did for them on the cross so they can be saved and be in Heaven with Him.

Ro 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

God predestinates according to his foreknowledge, and this gives great hope to one who is a believer in Christ. God does not predestinate some to go to hell and some to go to Heaven. The bible says hell was created for the devil and his angels.

When Adam (man) fell to sin by disobedience he was subject to Satan and destined to hell with him. But you see God had a plan because of his foreknowledge to still give all mankind an opportunity to still love Him and obey Him. The price of our redemption cost more than any of us could pay, but God’s Son paid the price with his blood on the cross for man’s sin (disobedience). What great love this is for all mankind. God’s foreknowledge is perfect and he has made sure that all those (several thousand years and so on in advance) who believe and obey his Son will have everlasting Life.

You see God does not violate man’s freewill because He doesn’t want robots to serve Him but people loving Him. Because of sin, man is bound and his will is not free but when one hears the gospel and the Holy Spirit convicts him and man begins to yield then God can help him, and begin to free his will to believe and be saved. God gives man a hatred for sin and a love for God when he truly repents.

 2008/7/13 17:29Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Is God all knowing

Quote:
The fact that his sin totally took god by surprise because he was perfect until the iniquity was found in him sounds like god really does give us all choices even angels and he expects nothing but good from us were the ones who make the choices to do our own will.



Taken by surprise, no. You could get very well bogged down into this as many have and as you mentioned, you would imagine.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I fear that our attempts to understand such things might cause us to become guilty of the same guesses as Job and Co. God doesn't need for us to understand all of His ways.



Indeed, nor does He intend to, that is what makes Him sovereign over all and I thank Him for it. If it was left up to us with our short-circuited wiring we would only have even more of our fallen heads teaching other fallen heads ... A couple thousand years of the same argument has not yet proven us to have 'figured this out' or reasonably explained it. If that wasn't proof enough ...

The answer is yes, He knows and no, it is not contrary to our responsibility.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/7/13 17:42Profile
stromboli
Member



Joined: 2008/7/13
Posts: 44


 Re:

Quote:

crsschk wrote:
Quote:
The fact that his sin totally took god by surprise because he was perfect until the iniquity was found in him sounds like god really does give us all choices even angels and he expects nothing but good from us were the ones who make the choices to do our own will.



Taken by surprise, no. You could get very well bogged down into this as many have and as you mentioned, you would imagine.

Quote:
Unfortunately, I fear that our attempts to understand such things might cause us to become guilty of the same guesses as Job and Co. God doesn't need for us to understand all of His ways.



Indeed, nor does He intend to, that is what makes Him sovereign over all and I thank Him for it. If it was left up to us with our short-circuited wiring we would only have even more of our fallen heads teaching other fallen heads ... A couple thousand years of the same argument has not yet proven us to have 'figured this out' or reasonably explained it. If that wasn't proof enough ...

The answer is yes, He knows and no, it is not contrary to our responsibility.



Pretty deep stuff.

The reason its so mind boggling to me is that if god doesnt know what will happen till it happens it would totally take the blame away from him and he becomes nothing but a good god. He cannot be looked at as a criminal who loves some and hates others and the blame shifts to us.

 2008/7/13 18:04Profile





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