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 Re:

KingJimmy said:

Quote:
It would indeed be a miracle if somebody got truly saved from that approach.



Come out to Asheville somtime, KJ... and I'll introduce you to 23 miracles.

(it's a miracle anytime God saves a soul anyway!)

I dont disagree with your approach, but unless someone understands why they need to be saved... they wont be saved.

Krispy

 2008/7/12 6:31
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


Come out to Asheville somtime, KJ... and I'll introduce you to 23 miracles.


There are even 23 people saved in all of Asheville? I guess there is an Abraham in that city after all! :-)

All kidding aside, I think I perhaps misread/understood your post. I often just see folks espousing WTM stuff overly espoused/emphasized, and have a kinda knee-jerk reaction. Using the law and showing them they are in need of a savior must be done. I just feel in the depths of my soul that the meat of the gospel message is too often just swept aside and forgotten while we pound sinners with the law.


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Jimmy H

 2008/7/12 7:45Profile
jeffutah
Member



Joined: 2006/8/24
Posts: 13
Ogden Utah USA

 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:

All kidding aside, I think I perhaps misread/understood your post. I often just see folks espousing WTM stuff overly espoused/emphasized, and have a kinda knee-jerk reaction. Using the law and showing them they are in need of a savior must be done. I just feel in the depths of my soul that the meat of the gospel message is too often just swept aside and forgotten while we pound sinners with the law.



I have read the WTM stuff and in some situations it is a great way to open the conversation with a non-believer and turn them to to the idea that maybe their not as good as they think they are.

How many times in witnessing to a non believer have you heard that the are going to Heaven because they are a good person.For me probably 99% of the time. To them what good is a Savior if they think they don't need one.

I try not to Pound anyone with the Law, it is the Holy Spirits work to convict the world of sin. How ever i will use any tool that the Spirit gives to bring the Gospel to the front of a conversation.I find it very hard to feed someone meat if their mouth is closed.

I don't know if you have read TWM i think it has some very useful witnessing tools,especially for someone who is not used too or have any idea where to start.

As Krispy said i think it is a miracle that any one is saved. I will in some form or another use TWM any time i have the opportunity.
Jeff









:-)


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jeff ashbridge

 2008/7/17 3:19Profile
DirkW
Member



Joined: 2007/11/16
Posts: 88
Netherlands

 Re:

Thanks for all your replies, it's been very helpfull to me. There's a lot to think about for me, but that's good :), as long as we are under the leading of Gods Spirit I suppose we can use a lot of these things to spread the gospel.
Maybe it also depends on the person where your speaking with I think, but I am convinced that your own testimony followed by the gospel does have great power and effect.


_________________
Dirk

 2008/7/17 5:43Profile
CJaKfOrEsT
Member



Joined: 2004/3/31
Posts: 901
Melbourne, Australia

 Re:

Quote:

KingJimmy wrote:
I just feel in the depths of my soul that the meat of the gospel message is too often just swept aside and forgotten while we pound sinners with the law.



One of the things that is often missed by those who know of WoTM "techniques", is the principle of "Law to the proud, garce to the humble". The Law should only be utilised, in as much as it I sthe "schoolmaster that leads a man to Christ".

Regarding the first and second examples presented in the beginning, both are essentially the same type of person. They are both their own "deity" defining there own concept of God. When we view a sinner as such, all becomes much simpler.

My tendency is to seek to prove to a sinner that Jehovah is a far more qualified God than their alernative. The Law comes in the contrast against their "law". To paraphrase Mark Driscoll, "We all believe in the existance of sinners. That's why we honk at people and hate them." Presenting God's Law, which is "intrinsically true" (at least 6 out of 10 Commandments, anyway), proven by our dislike of people voilating them against us, simply humbles a heart, by showing them the illogicality of hypocritical morality.

I strive to show them the Christ died and rose again for "a sinner you". Help them see their sinfulness, and then help them see the "love of God", which is "manifested, in that [b]while we were yet sinners[/b], Christ died for us". It is not uncommon for me to, after witnessing to an open heart, offer a Ten Commandment Coin, and encourage them to examine themselves in the light of God's Law, even writing down their sins (ala, CG Finney). I then tell then to read over the list, because that is the "real you, the you that you are trying to hide. God already knows that your like that, and He loves you so much that He died for [b]that[/b] 'you'."

My goal is to not only preach the gospel, but to demonstrating it. Over the years, the Lord has humbled me to the point of firmly realising my weaknesses, and the fact that it is only by His grace that I am not committing the most heinous of crimes. Because of this, the sinner's confessions of sin rarely shock me, enabling me to demonstrate the free offer of grace, through faith to them. In other words, if I can love them in spite of their sin, then how much more can God.

I agree with the idea of skepticism toward any applied meathodology in evangelism, and I am constantly frustrated with those who mindlessly run through WDJD, when witnessing. For myself, as I said earlier, it is about magnifying God's holiness, to the extreme that the sinner can plainly see that they cannot stand before Him, apart from His grace.


_________________
Aaron Ireland

 2008/7/17 8:26Profile





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