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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Speak evil of no man

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 Re:

How do you "mark & avoid"... how do you warn others... if you dont name names? Paul named names. He named the names of those who were deceiving the believers in the churches he was writing to. Their names have been in the record book (Bible) for 2,000 years.

It is NOT speaking of evil of someone when you expose the error of their teachings, and warn others to avoid them. Speaking the [b]truth[/b] about these teachers is not evil!

Suppose there was a flood... and several roads were under water... and I just tell people "there are 3 roads in this county that you could find yourself in peril on if you travel down them... but I'm forbidden to tell you which roads! You'll know which roads are flooded once you find yourself drowning."

That would be rediculous.

This verse is not referring to these types of things, unless someone is naming names in order to purposely run that person in the ground.

Krispy

 2008/7/11 9:57
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Thanks brethren,

This thread is helping me. Something you may not realize because I have not stated it until now but back in July of 2006 I had an experience with God of being filled with the Spirit like never before. I began to get upset with most of the Tv preachers over what they were saying in their messages.

I would hear Joel Osteen say things like have confidence in your self, talk to yourself. It seems like most of the preaching is self-help, instead of denying self. I listened to T. D. Jakes one time preaching on Joshua going into the water and the people were getting so emotional at his preaching and it wasn’t even correct according to the bible. I’ve heard Benny Hinn say things apart from the word of God. Jesse Duplantis so many enjoy listening to because he is so funny but a lot of what I heard him say was not funny to me. He seems to lift himself up and even put God under Him and I can’t listen to that kind of mess. As far as Todd Bentley goes that everyone seems to be caught up with, I watch Him one time and turned him off. Its looks like most of the preaching today is man centered instead of Christ centered. The message of the cross is avoided, only the passing words of mentioning the cross and the blood now and then, but the way of the cross is not brought out.

I prayed and asked God to help me not get into a critical spirit and not to become bitter over this, but to be full of his Spirit and be led by Him.

The reason I started this thread is for some insight from others and I thank you for that. The one thing God put in my Spirit so loud and strong was not to depart from the word. Everything we do must be from the Word of God by His Spirit.

I fear God too much to go astray from the Spirit of His Word. I definitely do not want to get caught up into anything that God is not in, and I want to have the right attitude that is pleasing to God.

In Christ -rbanks

 2008/7/11 11:24Profile









 Re:

rbanks, your humility and candor are very much respected by me.

You make make some points that can remind us to be guarded in our approach in dealing with these issues. As you can tell, I am passionate about the truth of the gospel and have seen first hand the damage going beyond scripture can do. I try to stay under the conviction of the Holy Spirit (and fail many times in imperfection) and I know that the only way I can continue to learn is to keep praying for wisdom and discernment and making time for Christ.

 2008/7/11 12:11
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Amen brothers,

1 Corinthians 1:23-31 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men. For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence. ((((But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.))))

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/7/11 15:25Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

Now that's an interesting insight on the damsel. I never saw it that way but it does fit, doesn't it?. I think I'll spend some time on that one.


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D.Miller

 2008/7/11 20:14Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

rbanks wrote:

The one thing God put in my Spirit so loud and strong was not to depart from the word. Everything we do must be from the Word of God by His Spirit.


Great insight!


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D.Miller

 2008/7/11 21:18Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Thanks for all your posts brethren and thoughtful for words,

Here is something else to think about concerning the damsel -

Ac 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Ac 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.
Ac 16:18 And this did she many days. But Paul, being grieved, turned and said to the spirit, I command thee in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her. And he came out the same hour.

I always try to interpret scripture within context. If you notice scripture before and after you will see that a spiritual work had begun in that area and it says, we were going to prayer when a certain damsel (possess with a spirit divination and had brought her masters much gain by soothsaying) met us (more than just Paul) . It says the same followed Paul and us. It also says she cried saying, these men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way unto salvation. Now notice this, the scripture says she did this many days and none of the men of God said a word to her for many days. Don’t you also wonder why they let this go on for many days?

Is there not something more to learn from this, how all the men did nothing for days? Now we know these were men of God and were not enjoying this at all. I believe these men did nothing without being led by the Spirit and that means putting up with a work of the devil until the time God moved upon them. You see brethren, God knew and I believe revealed to them that her masters were going to cause a ruckus when they cast out that spirit in her and that would harm the work of God going on. But notice it was Paul who after many days was grieved to the point of action and that what ever it was going to cost them, the Spirit of God was moving on Him to cast it out of her. He spoke directly to the Spirit and never said anything to the woman which is amazing. She was totally possessed and He freed her, praise God. Brethren if we are to learn anything, it is that true apostles never act on their own about anything, but they are moved against the powers of darkness when the Holy Spirit of power moves on them to do so.


 2008/7/11 22:34Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


KrispyKrittr, about this,


"How do you "mark & avoid"... how do you warn others... if you dont name names? Paul named names. He named the names of those who were deceiving the believers in the churches he was writing to."



As you brought out, the examples we have are in private letters written to congregations and to individuals. The people involved knew each other personally.





He was not standing in public places making accusations.


In Acts 13 and 16, the Apostle is speaking to people that he is looking at in the face.



He is not, for instance, spending hours upon hours talking about people on internet forums, who cannot speak for themselves or answer their accusers charges. Or even know they are being accused.



_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/7/12 1:24Profile









 Re:

Quote:
As you brought out, the examples we have are in private letters written to congregations and to individuals. The people involved knew each other personally.



I dont consider letters written to congregations to be "private". I believe that would be "public". Add to the fact that Paul was merely the instrument... the Holy Spirit wrote that letter... and I'm quite certain that the Holy Spirit knew that these names would be broadcasted thru-out the world and in the heavens for all eternity.

Quote:
He was not standing in public places making accusations.



This is speculation. You cant say that with any certainty. My guess is that if Paul (thru the Holy Spirit) had no problem naming names in a letter that was to be read publically... he probably had no problem naming the names verbally in front of that gathering of people.

You may still contend that this was not public, but private, because it involved a "congrrgation". Well, let's say you sin or teach a false doctrine... and the next week your preacher gets up in front of the congregation of 600 people... and names you by name and exposes you... I doubt you will think this isnt public.

Quote:
He is not, for instance, spending hours upon hours talking about people on internet forums, who cannot speak for themselves or answer their accusers charges. Or even know they are being accused.



First off... you are now accusing. Hmmm... now thats interesting.

Secondly... you are niave if you think these teachers and folks that are discussed here dont know what the accusations are. They do. For some of them the accusations have been leveled against them for years and years... and by discernment groups that are very open about it.

These people CAN and DO speak for themselves, and do attempt to answer their accusers. Many times they answer their accusers by condemning them to hell... as Benny Hinn does.

And there is nothing preventing these people from signing up for this forum and joining the conversation.

So no, I disagree with you. Todd Bentley is aware of the accusations against him. Benny Hinn is aware of the accusations agaisnt him.

But see... it's not about accusations. I've never accused Benny Hinn of anything that his own words havent proven. It's different for me to come here and say "Benny Hinn is an adulterer" when I have no proof of that. But when Benny Hinn teaches there are really 9 persons of the godhead, not 3... and I quote his teaching on that... and compare it to the Bible... thats not accusing... thats [b]exposing[/b]... and that's quite a bit different.

Krispy

 2008/7/12 6:48
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


KrispyKrittr,

you said,


"I dont consider letters written to congregations to be "private"."


But they were.


If a man stands outside a mailbox and reads mail that doesn't belong to him, he will be considered a criminal.


The same is true for the mail that comes to a church or a buisness.



And this is especially true as it pertains to the very public nature of these forums, which are being read in different parts of the world. [b]They are public places.[/b]




You also said,


"Add to the fact that Paul was merely the instrument... the Holy Spirit wrote that letter... and I'm quite certain that the Holy Spirit knew that these names would be broadcasted thru-out the world and in the heavens for all eternity."



Excellent point.


He wasn't firing off his mouth, or pen, on his own...


The Lord Jesus said,


[b][color=660000] I have many things to say and to judge of you: but he that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of him. [/color][/b]




Also, you said,


"...he probably had no problem naming the names verbally in front of that gathering of people."



That's just it, these forums [b]are not a gathering of people[/b]. The things being posted here are being shot off into the dark to people we do not know and neither is it possible to know who will read them.



Also,


"...and the next week your preacher gets up in front of the congregation of 600 people... and names you by name and exposes you... I doubt you will think this isnt public."



And public rebuke of sin or error [b]in the setting of a congregation of believers[/b] is in scripture(1Ti 5:20). But internet forums are not congregations. We are not speaking face to face here. And those accused or rebuked are not present here to defend or speak for themselves.




Also,


"First off... you are now accusing. Hmmm... now thats interesting."


KrispyKrittr, what did I accuse you of?


About this,


"And there is nothing preventing these people from signing up for this forum and joining the conversation."



Is that reasonable? Why should anyone do that? Is it anyone's responsibility to run over all the earth to defend themselves?



Also,



"...when Benny Hinn teaches there are really 9 persons of the godhead, not 3... and I quote his teaching on that... and compare it to the Bible... thats not accusing"


And I don't think there is anything wrong with challenging that either.



But this topic is about speaking evil of people. Not correcting doctrine.



My reponse to you was in regards to your refrence to Romans 16:17. And specifically then how it could or could not be applied to these forums.



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/7/12 8:42Profile





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