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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "Faith" in reformed theology?

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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC


But, back to the subject, Jimmy, have you read Pink's "The Sovereignty of God?" Backing that up with Pink's "Profiting from the Word", show something of the essence of my Reformed beliefs.

No I have not. But I will consider checking them out. I have read a little bit of Pink for a study I did on the sermon on the Lord's prayer for school. Personally, I did not care for his little book all that much.

Jimmy H

 2008/7/9 21:12Profile

 Re: Disp. Ref. Darby/Scofield etc.

The overwhelming majority of the Ref. camp would cringe at the thought of any association w/Dispensational-ism.

They believe it to be no less than an emasculation of the Scriptures.

As far as Darby/Scofield being calvinistic in their mind or otherwise,this could not be any farther from the truth.

Could you have gotten R.L. Dabney mixed up with J.N. Darby? Those two names often got mixed up in my mind when I was first introduced to the numerous names of men who held to conflicting theologies.

As far as D.L. may have a good case for aligning him among the reformed.

Does any of this make a difference? Certainly it does! But I do believe we must treat the diseases as they ought to be treated, rather than merely diagnosing symptoms and individuals who carry them.

In saying that I am not denying that flaws in men's character are to be trivialized, as most always such flaws tend to taint or even destroy our right judgement, and may even contribute to an unsound or damnable heresy.

Case in point:

One biographers "detailed investigation of Scofield's past...and actual public records regarding many aspects of Scofield's life and ministry both before and after his alleged conversion...and association with D.L. Moody range from the trivial to the reprehensible".

I do not intend to make this a Scofield bashing post. He just happens to be one who has a public record far from being above reproach. The following facts this biographer writes of are not hidden but were and are public. Just a few things which disqualify this man in my mind are:

"The criminal charges of fraud and embezzlement brought against him between 1877-1879, some following his alleged conversion resulting in at least one jail sentence.

His persistent refusal, even as a Christian minister, to make restitution to those he had defrauded.

The embarrassment of having divorce proceedings initiated against him by his wife Leontine in 1881 while he was pastor of Hyde Park Congregational Church, St. Louis. Her divorce papers charged Scofield with, '...gross neglect of duty...' having, 'failed to support this plaintiff or her said children, or to contribute thereto, and has made no provision for them for food, clothing or a home...' The court decided in favour of Leontine after some delay in 1883 and issued a decree of divorce in December of that year, describing Scofield as, '...not a fit person to have custody of the children.'

His nomination as pastor to the First Congregational Church of Dallas in 1882, by James H. Brookes was apparently without reference to or acknowledgement of any Christian obligation to provide for his family.

Discrepancies exist in the conflicting length of his courtship and the date of his second marriage to Hettie Van Wark in March 1884, only three months after her arrival in Dallas and his divorce becoming final.

Scofield deserted his first wife, Leonteen Carry Scofield, and his two daughters Abigail and Helen, and he took as his mistress a young girl from the St. Louis Flower Mission. He later abandoned her for Helen van Ward, whom he eventually married.

Scofield divorce decree

Journal M, November Term, A.D. 1883, 8th day of December, 1883

Leontine Scofield Plaintiff Vs C. I. Scofield Defendant

Now comes the plaintiff by her attorneys Tomlinson and Griffin and the defendant enters for appearance and files answer and makes no further appearance. And thereupon this cause came on for hearing upon the pleadings and testimony and was argued by counsel upon consideration whereof the Court does find that the defendant has been guilty of wilfull abandonment of the plaintiff for more than one year prior to the commencement of this action.

It is therefore adjudged and decreed by the Court here that the marriage relation heretofore existing between the said parties be and the same is hereby set aside and wholly annulled and the parties wholly released from the obligations of the same.

It is further ordered and decreed that the custody, nurture, education and care of the said minor children Abigal Scofield and Helen Scofield, be and the same, is hereby given to the said plaintiff and the said defendant is hereby forever enjoined from interfering with or disturbing the said plaintiff in the custody, care, nurture and education of the said above named children until the further order of this Court."

Scofield's behavior both before and after his alleged conversion are nevertheless consistent with, and illustrative of, the antinomianism inherent in Darby's rigid dispensationalism which Scofield popularized.

As noted above,this is not a Scofield bashing post. I merely wanted to stress my point that christians are exhorted to guard their life and their doctrine.

All this and more may be obtained in the public domain.

For those who are no fan of Finney the man or his theology, please only let the truth be known without malice. And for those many who highly esteem this man and his theology, please reconsider.

 2008/7/10 1:22

Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707


\\\\\My roots come from Kolding Denmark. I must study where Demark fits in the Plan of God and where Denmark Is coming from in their entratance and delivered Good to my brethren in Christ deliver \\\\\\\\]

Sorry getting sleepy, I'll collect more thoughts tomorrow.

In Christ: Phillip


 2008/7/10 6:01Profile

Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC


The overwhelming majority of the Ref. camp would cringe at the thought of any association w/Dispensational-ism.

No doubt. I cringe at the thought of it as well. However, the (sad) truth of the matter is that Dispensationalism has its roots in Reformed theology. Granted, it is a highly watered down version, especially as evident in its antinomian stances.

I wasn't aware that Scofield was such a monster. How sad. I can't say such shocks me though.

Jimmy H

 2008/7/10 8:01Profile

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