SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "Faith" in reformed theology?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Thank you all for your responses helping me clarify my understanding of the Reformed view of faith. I think I like the the emphasis of faith as the "means" by which these things come. Of course, I still disagree (though highly appreciate) the Reformed position. But, I am glad to understand it more :-) Any further thoughts would be appreciated.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/7/8 23:14Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Hi Jimmy,

I apologize for not reading your original post more accurately. I guess I was singing to the choir.

My desire is not to start a debate either. I think sometimes many have said good things but other times I think it seems like they get the cart ahead of the horse. It easy for all of us to do some times.

Thanks for your spirit of kindness.

 2008/7/8 23:30Profile









 Re: 'Faith'

Jimmy,

You may be interested in a book by Tom Wells entitled, "Faith: The Gift of God".

In the brief 160 pages of this book he addresses the issue with great clarity and simplicity.

He is an author who holds firmly to the views you say you're trying to grasp/understand.

One reader of this book said,"Mr. Wells writes in a clear, but repetitious style; there is nothing of sophistication here, nevertheless, he goes to the heart of the controversy regarding man's part in religious faith. He writes from the Calvinistic perspective and he wrote for the lay--rather than the scholastic--reader".

Another book he wrote which may be helpful to you as you try to grasp/understand such views is, "A Price For A People".

It is but 158 pages and presents those views you're trying to grasp/understand, clearly,simply and adequately. This book addresses the subject of the atonement as you may have guessed from the title.

If I can be of any more help to you please let me know. I have other books for your recommendation re: doctrines many believe to be of biblical foundation.

One could spend a lifetime reading the volumes of books that have been written by many an author. For those who are trying to grasp/understand why certain men believe certain doctines to be biblical, it may be wise to begin with shorter topical books.

Be sure and let me know if the above were of any help to you.

 2008/7/9 1:27
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

Jimmy,

I was looking through Calvin's Institutes this morning. There is an entire section on faith. I thought I would let you know since you were looking for clarification on faith in the reformed perspective. You can read the work for free online.

Don't neglect the reading of Calvin himself. Before reading him, I envisioned him as a cold, dead writer. However, he is actually very warm and devotional many times. His commentaries will be beneficial to you even if you do not hold to the five points.


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/7/9 7:48Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re: on Sproul and faith

Quote:
am all the more aware while reading this book, that Reformed theology while it saying saving faith is necessary for salvation, doesn't really seem to mean so.



KingJimmy, I have not read the book you refer to, but I do have a fair-sized collection of Sproul material. My comments to your observations are rather general, as I can’t remember any specific references to faith. (It's been a long time)

Sproul, to me was a welcome relief from the easy believism/ no-thinkism environment that I had dwelt in for too long. However, I did wonder if he wasn’t swinging the pendulum too far the other way, (especially his mentor/colleague, Gerstner)

I wonder if part of the concern you raise has to do with what I coin as the “Ivory Tower Syndrome” – where intelectual persuits get way too lofty and disconnected from grass roots of life - and, yes, the practical aspect of faith too. In this “condition” faith becomes submerged in theological jargon.

In my opinion the language Sproul uses seems so advanced academically, that it is challenging for average readers to assimilate. Surely there is no need for that.

I think in many ways Sproul does remind us that we do not walk in blind faith but in a faith that is based on vibrant reality. Admittedly, for many today, that vibrant reality is the missing element, and thus faith gets relegated to the emotion/feeling/superstition “towers” of Christendom - which is not faith in a risen Messiah, at all! It’s just the flip side of the same coin as intellectualism: unbelief.

Maybe THAT is a big part of the problem behind those who claim to embrace reformed theology, and yet in a way that seems to obscure the essence of faith. It certainly was in my reformed background.

I prefer to believe that Sproul has a place – only as long as his insights are kept in balance with other insights coming from the Christian Community.

KingJimmy, do any of my speculations here jive with your observations of Sproul’s book?


Diane






_________________
Diane

 2008/7/9 10:57Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Some good insights from all.

I have read the book. I felt that he did not neglect the subject as much as he simply spent more time on what he, perhaps, felt were areas that warranted greater concentration and more explanation for this particular book.

He definitely has he own style. Some authors are just more “heady” (does that work?). I have thoroughly enjoyed many of his articles; I cannot say the same for his books. Not that I do not appreciate them…it’s just that his “style” simply does not mesh very well with my brain.


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/9 11:23Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


In my opinion the language Sproul uses seems so advanced academically, that it is challenging for average readers to assimilate. Surely there is no need for that.


Well, generally speaking, in this book I found the language to be accessible. Most of the theological terms he uses he defines for the reader. I personally didn't find much of it a challenge, as I have been through the academy and know much of the lingo (save for his usage of Latin, which I don't know). I was able to breeze through the 216 pages in about 4 days, reading mostly during my lunch hour at work.


Sproul, to me was a welcome relief from the easy believism/ no-thinkism environment that I had dwelt in for too long. However, I did wonder if he wasn’t swinging the pendulum too far the other way, (especially his mentor/colleague, Gerstner)


Easy believism is mostly the result of Dispensational theology, not Reformed. Dispensationalism, in essence though, is watered down Reformed theology. Say thanks to Dallas Theological Seminary for filling our pulpits with preachers espousing those errors.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/7/9 18:54Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


I felt that he did not neglect the subject as much as he simply spent more time on what he, perhaps, felt were areas that warranted greater concentration and more explanation for this particular book.


No doubt, he didn't neglect the subject. I feel he spent most of the time on the subjects of total depravity and election, which pretty much became the overall theme to tie together the rest of the TULIP acrostic that he expounded on. With those two doctrines well argued, he more or less tried to let the "logical" outworkings of those doctrines attempt to take you through the rest. Personally, I felt his arguments got weaker as he went on, and by the time he got to the perserverance of the saints, he had pretty much run out of steam, and ended the book somewhat weakly (with a really bad interpretation of Hebrews 6).

Overall I found the book pretty good, and Sproul makes some strong points throughout. He seems to be writing in part for somebody who already has a bit of exposure to theology. I was disappointed that throughout the book, I don't think he once quoted an Arminian source directly, though he refers to it quite a bit. Indeed, the only actual sources he quotes from are from Reformed sources! Such seems a bit strange, but, being that he's simply trying to teach the essence of Reformed doctrine, I suppose such is understandable.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/7/9 19:06Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

KingJimmy wrote, "Dispensationalism, in essence though, is watered down Reformed theology."

I would love to read an explanation of how you came to that conclusion, seeing as most, if not all of the authors and pastors I've heard discuss the two considered them polar opposites.

But, back to the subject, Jimmy, have you read Pink's "The Sovereignty of God?" Backing that up with Pink's "Profiting from the Word", show something of the essence of my Reformed beliefs.

 2008/7/9 21:05Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:


KingJimmy wrote, "Dispensationalism, in essence though, is watered down Reformed theology."

I would love to read an explanation of how you came to that conclusion, seeing as most, if not all of the authors and pastors I've heard discuss the two considered them polar opposites.


Well, Darby/Scofield/etc, the fathers of the dispensationalism system of theology were (at least in their mind) deeply Calvinistic in their theological mindset. Granted, they are probably better thought of as "4-point" Calvinists, but, they historically align themselves with Reformed thought. I believe it was Darby that stormed out of D.L. Moody's church spouting that Moody hadn't even begun to understand "the doctrines of grace."

But basically, the way I understand dispensationalism, it is an eschatological system that allows for "eternal security" without perservering faith. They believe the saint will be preserved in regard to judgment, but they do not believe he will necessarily be a good Christian. He can be a "carnal" Christian and still make it to heaven. Reformed theology knows nothing of this easy-belivism.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/7/9 21:10Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy