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Lawevangelis
Member



Joined: 2004/10/9
Posts: 97
Justin, TX

 Todd Bentley's TX Visit

Saints,

I've written a review of Todd Bentley's recent visit to the University of North Texas. Here's the link:

http://informedevangelist.blogspot.com/2008/07/and-false-teacher-of-year-award-goes-to.html

Blessings,

Jon


_________________
Jon Speed

 2008/7/6 22:12Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Todd Bentley's TX Visit

Lawevangelis said in your article the following and I quote:

"I don’t recall the Lord Jesus giving His followers disclaimers when He healed them. Folks, face it. This stuff is not real."
However the Word of God declares the following: Joh 5:14 After this Jesus found him in the temple complex and said to him, "See, you are well. Do not sin any more, so that something worse doesn't happen to you."
Here's a note worthy principle found in the Word of God Mat 12:43 "When an unclean spirit comes out of a man, it roams through waterless places looking for rest, but doesn't find any.
Mat 12:44 Then it says, 'I'll go back to my house that I came from.' And when it arrives, it finds the house vacant, swept, and put in order.
Mat 12:45 Then off it goes and brings with it seven other spirits more evil than itself, and they enter and settle down there. As a result, that man's last condition is worse than the first. That's how it will also be with this evil generation."

Now I'm not a Bently fan but having read your commentary you went to that meeting to find fault and look for error. So you went with a preconcieved notion to aim your spiritual cannons and fire. Your personal bias is from begining to end. Poor reporting! You would have been better off to have published the sermon word for word and allow others to come to thier own conclusions but instead you have discredited something which may or may not be of God. In the process you have neglected your personal grasp on the Word of God, as noted above. You seem to be educated, however so were the pharisee s. You may want to go back to your professors and ask them for some of the finer points to reporting unbiased reports, unless of course your intention was never to report anything except what you had already in your heart to report, than of course all you needed was the sufficient amount of expected verbage to add your fire to.


_________________
D.Miller

 2008/7/6 23:17Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Todd Bentley's TX Visit

Well done brother.

Have had that closing verse in mind in regards to this whole matter lately, more the former;

[i]Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, [b]have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works[/b]?[/i] Mat 7:22

There is the answer to the question of how any of these things can be accomplished in the midst of this freak show as you so perfectly described it.

Praying for more spine amongst even those who ought to know better ... before it's too late.



_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/7/6 23:36Profile
Lotis
Member



Joined: 2006/9/26
Posts: 84


 Re: Todd Bentley's TX Visit

This article does nothing to further the kingdom or promote any sort of positive insight, you simply bash and make fun of him and others there for a few grueling paragraphs. You even make fun of the worship :( Honestly this is written in total hostility, I am totally cool with people giving their insights about Todd and Lakeland in an intelligent and mature way, but this reads like a secular celeb. bashing magazine or something.

Even if you wrote about something other than Lakeland I'd say the same thing...and yes, you are obviously completely biased in everyway about it.

Please stop filling the internet with worthless material and write something that will point someone to Jesus or something, thanks but no thanks.


_________________
John

 2008/7/7 0:16Profile
Lawevangelis
Member



Joined: 2004/10/9
Posts: 97
Justin, TX

 Re:

Lotis,

You can't describe what happens at Lakeland (or wherever Bentley takes his show) as "worship" by even a loose definition of the word. Jesus said that worship involves "spirit AND truth". I'll give them the benefit of a doubt and grant "spirit", but "truth" is a victim at a Bentley crusade.

Dohzman,

You have GOT to be kidding. I'm not republishing Bentley's tripe "word for word" any more than I would consider reporting any false prophet's sermons word for word for the sake of "fairness." I'm not into promoting false doctrine.

Yes, it's a newsflash...I'm biased. I went with a bias. Absolutely. Actually, my main goal was to witness to those who attended. After I heard the message, I was glad that I did. Somebody in that arena needed to share the truth. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Sermon Index is about revival. Bentley's ridiculous claims that what's happening at Lakeland is "revival" is foolishness. There's no repentance there. No contrition over sin. No exaltation of Christ. How can it be a revival? Because everyone is excited?

BTW, the text you quote from Matthew on demons has nothing to do with healing.

Jon








_________________
Jon Speed

 2008/7/7 9:53Profile









 Re:

"You may want to go back to your professors and ask them for some of the finer points to reporting unbiased reports, unless of course your intention was never to report anything except what you had already in your heart to report, than of course all you needed was the sufficient amount of expected verbage to add your fire to". dohzman

If this were an assignment for a class in SECULAR journalism I would agree. But Jon has a right to give his opinion in a report regardless of your subjective standard of how he should give it. If you want to bring up secular institutional reporting by telling Jon to go back to his professors dohzman then let's sum it up this way.. YOU WERE LOOKING FOR A NEWS REPORT....but Jon decided to give us AN OP-ED PIECE. That's his choice and who are you to say he should go back to his professors because he did it wrong? That's a bit arrogant. If what you were looking for isn't what you got then don't slam the messenger with your expectations, go and find the the fair and balanced info you are looking for and make your own conclusion. One of the Baptist publications did this and it was very balanced and well written. Not that it mattered to me as I have looked at, and attended, Latter Rain type movements for a few years and believe them to be false, but I WENT INTO THEM WITH AN OPEN MIND as I was a fairly new Christian at the time. I drew my final conclusions not based on reports or opinion but by consistently asking the Lord for wisdom and discernment into these things. Whose to say that the people here reporting haven't already done the homework and are now in the stages of rebutting based on a foregone conclusion? You're rebukes are misguided in the case of Jon, whom I do not know. But this is a forum for opinion and news and the moderators will have the final say on how things are written.

 2008/7/7 10:57
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Are you sure

by Lawevangelis : BTW, the text you quote from Matthew on demons has nothing to do with healing


If you reference vexed, possessed, unclean spirit, etc... you'll see healing connected with deliverence. Check it out for yourself.


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D.Miller

 2008/7/7 23:18Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

To whom it may concern,

Jesus wept over Jerusalem. He being full of the Holy Spirit spoke grievingly to the religious leaders of His day and called them hypocrites and snakes because they were leading people to hell. He also willingly gave himself to be crucified for them. He also said the same judgment we use toward others would also be used toward us.

Are we being carnal in the way we conduct ourselves? Would Jesus make derogatory comments, would he conduct himself in humorous and foolish activities against those who were misrepresenting Him?

1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
1Pe 2:22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
1Pe 2:23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
1Pe 2:24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.

If we are not going to strive to follow in His steps, then what is the whole purpose of saying we belong to Him, and that we are really seeking for genuine revival?

If things that are wrong don’t really grieve our heart but only gives us a right to show that we are more righteous or that we know better than they, how can we say we are filled with the Spirit that He was filled with?

Jesus was full of the Holy Spirit and tells us to be filled with the Spirit, and to walk in Love and sacrifice as He did. Being full of the Spirit, we should reprove darkness but not in the same attitude of others who are in the darkness. We are not to engage in the same type activities as people who don’t know God, Jesus expects better from His true followers. We are to live and walk in the fruit of the Spirit.

 2008/7/8 1:10Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Concern

There is another concern ...

Sometimes, difficult things need to be said and done;

[i]And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem, and found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:

And when he had made a scourge of small cords, he drove them all out of the temple, and the sheep, and the oxen; and poured out the changers' money, and overthrew the tables;

And said unto them that sold doves, Take these things hence; make not my Father's house an house of merchandise.[/i] Joh 2:13

The corollary's, the compulsion if you will to this present situation would be "[i]Stop this madness![/i]". I have no illusions that the Lord would not have any different recompense ...

[i]And his disciples remembered that it was written, The zeal of thine house hath eaten me up.[/i]

What I am afraid of because it keeps rearing it's head is a misappropriation of Christian ... niceties or 'balance' or what constitutes, "love."

Being that we are in the midst of all these dead witnesses it strikes me odd that a Tozer or Ravenhill or a Keith Daniel can speak plainly and forcefully and no one bat's an eyelash. This site is full of plain speaking. Jon's usage of Jellyfish strikes me as too apropos.

"Sensitivity" seems to be something that is getting overplayed while atrocities are being under developed.

Ravenhill asked; [i]Have we no spiritual stature?[/i],[i]"Are we compromised?[/i]"

What am I advocating here? A didactic reasoning over what constitutes 'bashing'? Or what scale is used to determine a proper balance? Do we not go well out of our way to tear down factions and divisive constructs, strife and bitterness and envy and all the other fleshy compulsions?

It's not those things at all. Sometimes I must wonder at the dancing around this oversensitivity to being offended or giving offense. The scripture is ripe with offending statements and that they come form Jesus Himself ought to set us back a pace and recall just where it was He wavered as [i]not to offend[/i] anyone. The Pharisees, the disciples, the crowds, He never changed or wavered. Even the Syrophenician woman took no offense about being equated with the dogs by inference and we ... turn to jellyfish over something like this?

I think we have our wires crossed and have let the world dictate subtly just what tolerance and compassion are made up of, even truth telling is bartered over in the name of love, when love has the courage to speak and not cower under a false sense of being 'nice', where did we get such notions? What kind of love is it that stands by and says nothing, does nothing in the face of common sensibilities sent out to pasture ...

Quote:
Yes, it's a newsflash...I'm biased. I went with a bias. Absolutely. Actually, my main goal was to witness to those who attended. After I heard the message, I was glad that I did. Somebody in that arena needed to share the truth. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.



Sometimes candor is imperative, all this jostling around about the happenings there even to my own digression, trying to strike a 'balance' ... sigh, how much does it take to have to explain every jot and title these days where we cannot read between the lines in the one sense and not misappropriate doing so in the other? Not about to put words in our brothers mouth here but am almost certain his zeal and compulsion has much more to do with putting a halt to these shenanigans and this traveling circus atmosphere then it does to outright destroy the leader or the followers. For myself and for others who were, amazingly now to look back on it but nevertheless where actually swayed into buying so much of this nonsense at one time to call fire down upon their heads and seek their destruction ... "such were some of you". But redundantly it was those voices, those men who had the courage to speak up and often speak with words that set me in stark, offended opposition, "How dare they!" "Touch not the Lords anointed ..." that rattled me out of my sleepy state. A cold bucket of water is what is needed in this hour not sentiment and emotionalism. To the leaders as to the followers, don't be deceived and stop deceiving the people! Stop the carnival and the manipulating!

And to the rest, get some spiritual spine and learn how to love from the depths of our being, then just maybe they might be startled out of this now so easily acceptable and nefarious idea that everything is of God and needs not to be questioned or put to the test.

I turn the soap box over, my beloved brethren.






_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/7/8 10:10Profile
Ruach34
Member



Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296
Beijing

 Re:

Quote:
And to the rest, get some spiritual spine and learn how to love from the depths of our being, then just maybe they might be startled out of this now so easily acceptable and nefarious idea that everything is of God and needs not to be questioned or put to the test.



Yes and Amen! This love, as I believe the moderator would agree, is not one that readily gives trite answers but statments that over turn the apple cart, as Art Katz would say. What is love but to show, by grace and truth, the error of ones way? If they listen that man/woman is wise and you have earned a brother or sister. If they refuse the counsel they are unruly and foolish and should not be trifled with after the second try.
However, the one giving the advice better be in Spirit and Truth, and that is how we are accountable to God. All deeds will be judged by Him with whom we have to do. No deed will go unpunished, the flipside, no good deed will go unrewarded. Remember Job's friends...?

What have we to learn of being a steward with our mouths, our writing and our very notions...no deed is hidden from Him! This is the fear and trembling by which we will 'work out our salvation.'

O, dear friends, let us with a holy zeal root out the money-changers and with humility open our mouths to speak.

I do notice a certain humility that Keith Daniel speaks with, yet the authority is there and persuasive power of the Holy Spirit. One cannot be a man-pleaser or boaster of self and have this authority and power.

Amen?


_________________
RICH

 2008/7/8 10:29Profile





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