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FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Dear brother,
Perhaps I do go to great lengths to use the terms joy and laughter interchangably. As I said, I am open to the possibility that I may take it too far. However, where there is true joy, there will undoubtedly be laughter. The examples of past revivals that I quoted, were not side issues, many of those things were manifestations that were hallmarks of the movement. Obviously they were never the main deal, the exaltation of Jesus Christ and His power to change lives was, but particular manifestations were hallmarks of certain movements. And in my opinion, it was not the manifestations that caused the revivals to come to an end, but rather the controversey and bickering that arose concerning them.

Certainly I am not attempting to sanction everything that laughs, shakes or falls on the floor, as I tried to make clear. I am saying, however, that you cannot ignore or completely disregard a particular manifestation because it is not in line with our experience. Perhaps it is something sacred in God's sight when a sinner who was bound in depression and who was abused and hurt their whole lives is born of the Spirit. If that person broke out into hilarious joy and laughter after tasting the heavenly gift, is that ungodly? Certainly all of heaven rejoices when one sinner repents, what would be so wrong about the saints joining in as well?

Perhaps I'm reading laughter into joy again. To be honest with you, I think that is straining out theological gnats. The truth is the greek and hebrew words do sometimes carry with them the idea of laughter.

As far as the idea of God's presence and my former statements. We did indeed have the presence of the Lord very strongly. However, regardless of who God really is, if I view Him in a particular way, that is the way that I will experience Him. If I view everything through red tinted glasses, than even if the object I'm looking at is white, it will appear red or reddish to me. It's the same with God. Your view of Him has a large deal to do with how you experience Him.


_________________
Jeff

 2008/7/6 20:50Profile









 Re:

Can I say brother that the hallmarks of the revivals that you quote were unchurched people swept into the kingdom. Bars closed down, crime rate halved, churches bulging with converts who had never previously stepped into a church, these are the hallmarks.

You cannot look at Gods presence through any prism, He is all in all. Once Gods manifest presence is genuinely experienced, one would know that one would never have to get on a plane and fly anywhere.

Perhaps if you did a word search on Laughter and laugh, you would see that laughter is not so much as even mentioned in NT. Laugh is, twice. Just for the record, I have been in services where this occurs, and in a former homegroup where they embraced this from Florida in the 90s. The homegroup is no more and the couple are getting a divorce. The Pastor of the Church that invited Rodney Howard Brown's movement in, had an affair with his secratary, and ran of with her. This was Full Faith Church of Love, one of the first mega church's, a church that was alive with the Spirit of the Lord, a Church where many folks were saved every week, this church, 5000 strong, disintegrated. It is now a very small shadow of its former self. Movements like the Welsh revival and the Lewis revival were marked with whole communites saved, virtually no backsliding, many coming into the ministry and sending out missionaries all over the world.

A good example of coming into Gods presence is Isa 6..........Frank

 2008/7/6 21:39
Ruach34
Member



Joined: 2006/2/7
Posts: 296
Beijing

 Re: Wilkersons weird manifestations preaching

This video should be an indictment to all of us, it is to me. As i sat and 'enjoyed' a couple of hours of tv tonite, thinking to myself how I deserved such a break, "I hadn't watched it in a week, I deserve it," was my justification. O, my! then I watch the video clip of Wilkerson and it softened my heart, grace and truth were applied through the conviction of the Holy Spirit. I remembered reading about
George Whitfield leaning his head back and weeping over the sins of the people, while watching this video. Wilkerson has got to be the most coveted and desired preacher in all the world! His itnerary must cover the globe in just a few weeks and people line up for miles, treading flood and high water to get to his preaching.

And here I am in my meager world, watching television for a few short hours and i am grieving over the lost time... My O, my!

Jesus says, blessed are you who weep now, for you will be comforted. Blessed are you who hunger now, for you will be filled.
Are not these words an indictment of grace and truth to all who are not hungering now and all who are not weeping now.

O, let me bend down low and weep, O Lord. This I believe most truly reflects the heart of Christ and His Holy Spirit.


_________________
RICH

 2008/7/6 22:40Profile
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

We buried and cremated three suicides this week at the funeral home where I work, two hangings and a drug overdose. Two are young men under 30, and one is a middle-aged woman who swallowed a bottle of pills. How in the world can I go to church after this and laugh like a crazy idiot? There's nothing at all to laugh about in July of 2008 on planet Earth. We need to weep over the fact that we don't weep, and if we were living as close to God's heart as we ought to be, we would feel the same pain and grief He feels. I tell you, there is horrible pain and suffering in God's heart, and not mirth. The preachers closest to God all know this, and lament like Wilkerson over the blindness, the foolery, the idiocy that goes on in the name of the Holy Ghost. When the true Holy Ghost shows up in our fellowships we will be crushed, humiliated, abased, wretched and in tears...staggered and terrified before a holy God.

How much longer will He endure this?


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/6 22:54Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Dear Paul,

Thank you for the sobriety. I am at a loss and at pains that this is even something to be disputing over. It is beyond ridiculous.

I am convinced that even common sense has been rooted out of the gene pool, how much worse for those that claim Jesus as Lord ... delusion is setting in.


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Mike Balog

 2008/7/6 23:02Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7463
Mississippi

 Re:

Quote from Mike:

Dear Paul,

Thank you for the sobriety. I am at a loss and at pains that this is even something to be disputing over. It is beyond ridiculous.

I am convinced that even common sense has been rooted out of the gene pool, how much worse for those that claim Jesus as Lord ... delusion is setting in.




Amen.
ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/7/6 23:19Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3228
Texas

 Re:

Quote:

PaulWest wrote:
We buried and cremated three suicides this week at the funeral home where I work, two hangings and a drug overdose. Two are young men under 30, and one is a middle-aged woman who swallowed a bottle of pills.



Wow! Paul this is terrible, you have to be incredibility strong person to be able to have a job as yours, thank God they are Blessed with having someone like you working for them.


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2008/7/7 1:23Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

QUOTE:
"My own opinion is that people who associate joy, the joy of the Lord with laughter, simply do not have an understanding of what Joy is or have never "felt," true Biblical joy. I have met countless people, perhaps every human being, who has experienced laughter, I have met precious few who have experienced the true Joy of God."


I cant for the life of me even imagine a scene in heaven,or earth or anywhere,where laughter and joy would NOT be compatible.

So now in our quest to be scriptural we have banned laughter from fellowshipping with joy?

Hmmmmm

Ok we may now conclude any laughing is disallowed by believers or the Holy Spirit?

Are we to ONLY read scriptures depicting weeping and lamenting?

Yes to have joy and laughter come over a believer is bizarre?
I had never looked too deeply into the dynamics of joy,but never thought it taboo to laugh when overcome with joy.

When I got saved and later baptized in the Holy Spirit,we called ourselves the O.S.G. group
(organization of the silly grin)
I was saved out of much misery and oppression.
when the laughing revival came,it was awesome
you guys weren't there and definitely dont know what you are talking about.
In your minds you try to discern through videos and edited clips. searching for the displays of flesh and using them to discredit a true move of the Holy Spirit.

You think Wilkerson is infallible?
I have spent many,many hours in times square church and I have the only videos of the revival in times square church.
He totally misjudged the Brownsville revival.
His brother Don had to straighten him out.
He and carter conlon both totally misjudged the laughing revival.
I was against it too,untill I went.
Alvin,Texas mid 1990's I saw for myself. It was God.

You guys never went and missed out. It was awesome.

But you dont believe me and i have to admit,had I not gone, I would probably join you in your folly.
But this goes to prove a point.....Go and see for yourself,dont let man tell you what is God and what is not.

You guys should know better!
You dont let man (no matter what pedestal he is on) tell you what is God and what is the devil.

Go to God and learn HIS leading and check it out yourself.

The big leaders will guide you?
What if they are wrong?
Men and intellect will Deceive you just like paul was deceived.
You can't get there scripturally and think with your mind YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST BE LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The spirit and the word always agree.
Not the Spirit as you confine him to your intellect and the word.
It is the spirit revealing the word.
You guys try to make the spirit obey the wword.
You have the cart before the horse.

This opens the believer to deception.
This is exactly the deception of the last days

20And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:

21Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.

22And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.

23And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.

24For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.

Do you see? It is man showing man what is God!
(wide open for deception)
You must discern for yourself.

WE HAVE THE ULTIMATE GUARANTEE FROM THE LORD GOD ALMIGHTY.
9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.

10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

I didnt check with ya'lls teachers before i went to times square church,Alvin Texas's the Brownsville revival.

I had awesome ,awesome times with Jesus and witnessed lives changed along with my own.
This is so rare and precious. Some things even unspeakable.

I cannot exist without the presence and power of God.
I cannot put his Holy Bible or angels or anything above Him.
He is an Awesome God and he rules and reigns with his awesome power and Glory and presence.
I refuse and reject a powerless,abbstract God that is not real.
My God is the same God as the apostles of the word of God.
He worked in power then and he lives today and does the same things he did back then.
I dont need a doctors report!!!
What is wrong with you?
Of course he heals and one more thing,

HE RAISES THE DEAD JUST LIKE BEFORE!!!


David

 2008/7/11 1:42Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 640
Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
I cant for the life of me even imagine a scene in heaven,or earth or anywhere,where laughter and joy would NOT be compatible.

So now in our quest to be scriptural we have banned laughter from fellowshipping with joy?

Hmmmmm

Ok we may now conclude any laughing is disallowed by believers or the Holy Spirit?

Are we to ONLY read scriptures depicting weeping and lamenting?



You completely missed what was said. Laughter is not the plumb line of joy.

Quote:
when the laughing revival came,it was awesome
you guys weren't there and definitely dont know what you are talking about.



I was right in the middle of it. A couple of feet from Rodney Howard-Browne in fact. Also met Kilpatrick and a minister friend of mine is a traveling evangelist who is best friends with him. I can't go to one of his meetings without him knowing about me being there because he calls me up onto the platform--I attended his bible school for a short period of time.

Quote:
The big leaders will guide you?
What if they are wrong?
Men and intellect will Deceive you just like paul was deceived.
You can't get there scripturally and think with your mind YOU ABSOLUTELY MUST BE LED OF THE HOLY SPIRIT.

The spirit and the word always agree.



This double-talk is galling but not surprising. I'm sure it's not intentional. But it's amazing how people caught up in this will always admit that the "Spirit and the Word must agree" but when godly men judge a movement by the Word they are cannonaded with accusations that they are Pharisees.

Which brings me to another point. The accusations and insuations that men who question a "move of God" are automatically Pharisees shows a lack of the knowledge of the Word. The Pharisees didn't reject Christ because they knew the Word, they rejected Christ precisely because they DIDN'T know the Word. They misunderstood it completely, and were the false teachers by and large of their day along with the saducees.

And once again there are Christ rejecting "revivals" taking place. We shouldn't be surprised because Paul prophesied by the Holy Spirit that in the last days there would be a Great Falling Away from the faith.


_________________
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey

 2008/7/11 7:24Profile





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