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 David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations


Saints,

this is important to watch:

[b]David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations[/b]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrpW6Xctg8Q

May we keep the word of God and honor the word of God with our lifes. A great deception is happening in the name of Christ. God have mercy. Send us prophets.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2008/7/6 11:52Profile
psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations

one could easily conclude from that video that any joy of anykind is forbidden by the Holy Spirit.
I would remind you that the joy of the Lord is our strength
Romans 14:17
17For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.

1 thes 1;
6And ye became followers of us, and of the Lord, having received the word in much affliction, with joy of the Holy Ghost.

1peter 1;
8Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory

Wilkerson's comment is unscriptural.

A multitude of scripture backs up laughter with the Holy Spirit.

Tell me,If god spoke to a believer through a donkey does it prevent him from speaking through a zebra?

David

 2008/7/6 13:39Profile
Fuegodedios
Member



Joined: 2007/2/21
Posts: 220
Richmond, VA

 Re: David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations

Greg thanks for posting this. David wilkerson is a great man of God. He has a burden for this lost. May God give us all this passion for the lost.


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Demetrius

 2008/7/6 14:37Profile









 Re:

Hi David.....quite sad for you to say that David Wilkersons comments were unscriptural. That is your opinion of course. My own opinion is that people who associate joy, the joy of the Lord with laughter, simply do not have an understanding of what Joy is or have never "felt," true Biblical joy. I have met countless people, perhaps every human being, who has experienced laughter, I have met precious few who have experienced the true Joy of God.

As for a multitude of Scriptures for Laughter, there are ten in the whole of the Bible, and none in the New Testement. If you do a search on "laugh," you will find 16 references in the Scriptures, two in the NT. I think that you will find it interesting to study what the Scriptures do say about laughter..............Frank

 2008/7/6 14:57
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
one could easily conclude from that video that any joy of anykind is forbidden by the Holy Spirit.


I didn't get this impression at all; could it be that you, in your seemingly relentless crusade to defend this manifestation, may be viewing Wilkerson with a bias? Refering to the "joy" of the Lord, I don't normally equate it with maniacal, uncontrollable laughter. Brother, from reading so many of your posts, I can't help but wonder if this is what the Lord's joy means to you.

Joy is the deep, underlying constant, the earnest bedrock put in a believer by God that pervades the inner man despite trials, prison, persecution, death. The influence of joy is such that it transcends superficial emotional outbursts. What you see at these Holy Ghost laughing ralies is not the joy of the Lord; it is a manifestation that is very often manipulated by the preacher and/or music. It is subject to outer stimuli and within the confines of the soul.
Quote:
Wilkerson's comment is unscriptural.


David, can you prove this, contextually?

By the way, welcome back! :-)


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Paul Frederick West

 2008/7/6 15:01Profile
elanham
Member



Joined: 2007/3/21
Posts: 87
Maryland

 Re: David Wilkerson On Weird Manifestations

O that we might weep along with our brother, for sake of the Heart of the King.

I am reminded of Pauls exortation against those who are the "enemies of the Cross" and Paul said "I tell you know even weeping".

O that our God might deal a death blow to Macbethian Christianity. That which is full of sound and furry signifying nothing.

Our call is to signify something to the world that is of utmost importance and significance. We should signify that the end of all things are at hand and our lives should give evidense that Truth.

Im amazed at so many believers who long for prophetic words and new revelation when many of them are not doing the things that are plainly laid out in the Apostolic scriptures such as "Take up your Cross and follow";"Die daily".

God please have mercy on me and your church.


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Eric Lanham

 2008/7/6 15:24Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

Thanks for posting.


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Josh Parsley

 2008/7/6 15:47Profile
FireinmyBones1
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Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Perhaps my comments will be irrelevant due to the fact that I am unable to view the video. (Unfortunately, at the moment, I am confined to dial-up...) However, I have heard David Wilkerson comment on the "holy laughter" phenomena in the past.

Do not get me wrong, I LOVE the ministry of David Wilkerson. Many of his messages have crushed me before the Lord, leaving me wanting nothing more than Jesus and Jesus only. The message "A Call to Anguish" in particular, had a great impact on me. I would encourage all to check that sermon out.

I first heard David Wilkerson come against "holy laughter" a few years back and must admit that I sided with him. I began to preach something very similar with similar passion. I even taught these things to my congregation. However, the Lord took me through a lengthy process in which many of my formerely held, "hard-nosed" opinions were melted by a revelation of God's love and tenderness. Certainly I retain a revelation of his wrath, holiness and greatness, however this is but one side of the doctrinal "coin". Paul admonished the Romans to consider both "the kindness and the severity of God...". One without the other will cause an individual to be unbalanced and either overly harsh and critical, or overly passive and easy on sin.

When I had only a revelation of God's wrath and holiness, a manifestation of the Spirit such as laughter seemed absurd and irreverent. The only types of manifestations that seemed to have any validity to me were ones involving groaning, moaning, wailing and tears. I had experienced this and still do. Certainly we do read much of this type of manifestation in scripture and in church history. We read of the powerful and overwhelming conviction of the Holy Spirit that would sweep over congregations and cities in revival's of old. We read of tears, groaning and broken-hearted yearnings after salvation that would follow the preaching of men like Edwards, Finney, Duncan Campbell, etc...

Certainly such dramatic displays of emotion are not the norm in everyday life. You may weep or cry softly at some point in your day as you meditate upon the power of the cross or the person of Jesus Christ. However, the dramatic and animated wailing and groaning of true repentance is native only to the land of revival and true Holy Spirit visitation. An emotion that is experienced on a much smaller scale in day - to - day life is greatly "exagerated" (I don't mean that in the negative...) amplified, and intensified in an atmosphere of revival. Why is this? Because in times of revival the presence of God is peculiarly and frighteningly strong and human emotions are typically given full vent in response to the heightened awareness of God and His attributes.

My question then is this: Have you ever simply bubbled over with joy at some point in your day as you meditated on the power of salvation? the salvation of your soul from the dominion of darkness? upon hearing a wonderful testimony of deliverance or salvation? Have you ever laughed or cried out to God with joy and gladness in your voice at any time at all during your day? Certainly this does not seem sinister and should be our typical and most natural response to God's presence. The Apostle Paul admonished us (while in the deplorable conditions of the phillipian jail...) to rejoice always. While joy is that deep, inward peace and assurance that comes from the intimate knowledge of God, that joy does often "bubble up", and/or manifest itself through joyful expressions such as dancing, laughter or song. And although the scriptures identify Jesus as a "man of sorrows and familiar with grief or suffering", Hebrews 1:8-9 also tell us that Jesus was anointed with the "oil of joy above his companions.". In fact it would appear that Jesus was known more for His joy and gladness than for His sad or somber demeanor. (this could be an assumption on my part, however) It would seem that John the Baptist was known more for his grieved and somber demeanor, and a life marked by fasting and broken-heartedness. Jesus, was not well received for having a demeanor that seemed semi-contrary to that of John. Jesus himself used this as an example to show the ungodly attitudes of the Pharisees and other religious leaders in Matthew 11:16-19. Jesus even compared his own ministry to the joyful sound of the flute (joy) and John's to the sound of a funeral dirge (mourning).

Take a look at LUKE 10:21:

21 At that time Jesus, FULL OF JOY through the Holy Spirit, said...

The Bible states that Jesus was "FULL OF JOY THROUGH THE HOLY SPIRIT..." The word for "full of joy" here is a word that literally means to exult or JUMP for joy! There was a surge of joy that went through Jesus as a result of the Holy Spirit's presence. Jesus was a man anointed with the oil of joy, and Jesus' joy was certainly more than a deep contentment and assurance of his right standing before God. It literally manifested itself in joyful expressions.

I could be taking this point to far and I am VERY open to that possibility. The only point I am trying to make here is that both emotions seem to have just as much validity in the eyes of God. Mourning seems no more sacred or holy to God than joy and laughter. We have no evidence in scripture that the joy and laughter of true, redeemed, blood bought saints of God is detestable and irreverent in the ears of God, while he takes great pleasure in the sounds of their agony and at the sight of their tears. The great puritain writer William Gurnal once wrote, "Christ takes no more delight to dwell in a sad heart, than we do to live in a dark house." Both joy and weeping seem to have their place in the life of the believer and have their place in their daily life.

My point here is this, if then daily emotion of weeping and mourning is intensified and amplified and becomes more demonstrative in times of revival, is it so far-fetched to believe that this same phenomenon may occur as it pertains to joy and laughter? May the spiritually and emotionally charged atmosphere of revival produce exageratted and intensified demonstrations of joy just as much as sorrow and grief? Certainly the accounts of joy and laughter in past revivals exists in copious amounts. We tend to focus on the accounts of repentance and salvation followed by emotional demonstrations. However, the accounts of individuals experiencing the "joy of salvaiton" are just as abundant.

We've all read John Wesley's account of the powerful move of God experience on New Years Eve of 1739:

"At three in the morning, as we were confining in prayer, the power of God came upon us so mightily that many cried out with HOLY JOY, while others were knocked to the ground."

Allow me to ask, what does it mean to cry out with "holy joy"? Perhaps it was an intense experience of joyous laughter that they were experiencing.

Listen to C.T. Studd's account of the 1914 revival in Africa:

"The whole place was charged with an electric current, men were falling, jumping, LAUGHING, crying, singing, confessing, and some shaken terribly. It was a terrible sight..."
"This particular one can best be described as a spiritual tornado. People were literally flung to the floor or over the forms, yet no one was hurt...as I led in prayer, the Spirit camde down mightily sweeping the congregation. My whole body literally trembled with power. We saw a marvelous sight, people literally filled and DRUNK WITH THE SPIRIT."

Again we see an example in GENUINE REVIVAL of exaggerated behaviors of both joy and sorrow.

A letter written to George Whitefield concerning the Welsh Revival under the leadership of Daniel Rowland reads:

"While one is praying, another is LAUGHING; some howl and beath their hands toghther; others are weeping and groaning; and others are groveling on the ground in a swoon, making all kinds of antic postures; then they all LAUGH at once, and continue LAUGHING for about a quarter of an hour. The power that continues with Rowland is uncommon."

If you will remember, after Finney's powerful experience with the Holy Spirit in which he described "wave after waved of liquid love" passing over him, that a friend who visited during that same period was struck with uncontrollable, spasmodic laughter.

Smith Wigglesworth's congregation also experienced a corporate manifestation of holy laughter after Wigglesworth had returned from Sunderland England and received the baptism of the Holy Spirit. This account can be read in Stanley Frodsham's "Smith Wigglesworth, Apostle of Faith."

Howell Harris wrote that the revival experienced in Wales in the 1700's was marked by a, "spirit of singing, rejoicing and jumping for joy."

Even the great, pious intercessor John Hyde experienced what HE called "holy laughter". John Hyde was not a man given to frivolty or spurious manifestations. Rather he was a broken hearted intercessor who literally died before his time due to the intense burden he carried. If you read the book "praying Hyde" there is a small section devoted to this phenomenon. A friend of Hydes comments on how the Lord was teaching them about His identity as the "God of Isaac", Isaac meaning laughter. After extended periods of broken hearted intercession, Hyde would reportedly erupt in joyous laughter, giving him strength to continue.

My point is that joy, even supernatural, Holy Spirit inspired surges of joy are no more uncommon in times of revival than weeping and travailing. Emotions that are normally experienced in smaller, tamer doses, are experienced in much more grand and demonstrative doses in revival.

The Bible is clear that after periods of sorrow, joy always comes. (PSALMS 30:5) If the sorrow is heightened in times of revival, should we think it strange therefore it the experience of joy that follows be heightened as well? Certainly revival is a manifestation of God's holy presence. It is a season, a divine moment in which God, who is omnipresent, is PECULIARLY PRESENT! Psalms 16:11 tells us that in God's PRESENCE there is FULLNESS of JOY!

We should therefore, not think it strange if in a time when God's presence is particularly strong on an individual or congregation, that joy reach it's FULLNESS. Fullness speaks of a point of overflow, when what can typically be contained has to be vented or expressed outwardly.

I am certainly not promoting anti-biblical concepts, poor doctrinces attached to certain ministries who experience such manifestations, or any other such spurious thing. I am only saying that such phenomena should not be discounted because it is beyond our realm of experience or something that we do not understand. Please prayerfully consider these things and see what the Lord shows you.

God bless,

Jeff


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Jeff

 2008/7/6 17:47Profile









 Re:

Hi Jeff

God bless you brother. If there is a scheme afoot to turn one brother against another, I certainly want to be known for my love. Can I suggest you go to great length to use the terms joy and laughter interchangeably ? Can I further suggest that what was peripheral in revivals of the past and led to there ending, has now become center stage. What was once odd behaviour on the sidelines is the main event. And all of this comes at a time when the very people who promote these "events,' will not teach death to self, will not teach suffering, because that is not what the "multitude," want to hear. Health and wealth and the "come and get some," (I so dislike that phrase) philosophy has people coming from far and wide. Would people be flying in for a movement of repentence? What about if people, who were called by His name would turn from their wicked ways was preached? Would people fly in to be involved in a movement that would compel them to give up their "materialism?"

You write " However, the Lord took me through a lengthy process in which many of my formerely held, "hard-nosed" opinions were melted by a revelation of God's love and tenderness. Certainly I retain a revelation of his wrath, holiness and greatness, however this is but one side of the doctrinal "coin". Paul admonished the Romans to consider both "the kindness and the severity of God...". One without the other will cause an individual to be unbalanced and either overly harsh and critical, or overly passive and easy on sin."

To come into His presence is everything. Its not about sides of coins. If you come into His presence and its judgment that you need, then its conviction that you will get. If you come into His presence and it is joy that you need, then it is joy that you will find. You will find that your every need is met in the presence of the Lord, there is certainly fullness of Joy. Now why was the presence of the Lord not in your Church before? That is a question that only you can answer. It takes sacrifice to come into the presence of the Lord. You have to lay some things down, you have to pass the "brazen alter." Cain could not, and Abel could, because he knew that he was not worthy and sacrificed the lamb to cover that unworthiness. So, what if a movement comes along where you do not have to lay anything down, no sacrifice, no death to self no anything, just show up and go forward and "get some." Which will the people go after?

In Exodus 32 there was a fire of the people own making in which they mingled that with worship of God. They certainly rose up and played, I would imagine much laughter too, yet it was not the worship of the true God but a God that was fashioned by their own hands, actually by the hand of Aaron...............Frank

 2008/7/6 20:30
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1057
Germany NRW

 Re:

Dear Jeff,
I see the validity of your point and I take it you do not use this to endorse the current phenonomen in Lakeland.

I see so often that when we see some unscriptural excesses, we tend to try to counter it in the flesh. There is true freedom in the Lord that may express itself in exuberance, there is true joy in the Lord that may express itself in singing, clapping and dancing.

A solemn assembly in fleshly legalism producing condemnation can be just as wrong as maniac laughter.

We should not swing from one extreme to the other.

Ecclesiastes 3
A Time for Everything
1 There is a time for everything,
and a season for every activity under heaven:
2 a time to be born and a time to die,
a time to plant and a time to uproot,

3 a time to kill and a time to heal,
a time to tear down and a time to build,

4 a time to weep and a time to laugh,
a time to mourn and a time to dance,


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 2008/7/6 20:46Profile





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