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Miccah
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Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

I am not well versed about music in the Bible. Can someone please quote scripture that talks about music that is being made onto the Lord, with instruments, as sinful?

Thanks


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Christiaan

 2008/7/1 11:47Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

It has been said that music soothes the soul. True music in praise and worship should exalt the Lord and edify your spirit. The problem with a lot of music in the modern day church is too much singing about self.

We are supposed to be denying the self life and lift up Christ in our singing. The reason why so many, go to the churches that they do, is because the music and singing blesses them. May the Lord help our Leaders give them spiritual food in the singing ministry?

Let’s quit singing so much about ourselves and how great we are which doesn’t please God at all but only excites the flesh. Let’s get rid of our fleshly, worldly songs.
Let’s sing songs, play instruments, which glorifies the Lord so the Holy Spirit will be stirred up, instead of the flesh.

It should be all about the Lord, may leaders who love God know the difference so we want have a mixture that is displeasing to God. No flesh will ever glory in his presence, not now, not ever!!!

 2008/7/1 11:53Profile
Compton
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
As a musician myself I can say that it is a constant concern for me that the instruments get in the way of real worship.



JI Packer expressed a similar disposition. While he was very gracious to his charismatic friends who employed fully modern music, as well as banners and dancers, he himself admitted he simply could not concentrate on God in such a stimulating environment. He found he needed to keep his eyes shut, and his hands and body still to make sure that the words he was singing was mindful of God.

He didn't make a legal issue over this though. He emphasized that for him it wasn't an issue worth separating over.

Like Robert, I find my self more and more understanding of the prohibition against instrumentation in the worship service. Music is an art---an unreality. It is such a powerful emotional cue, or prop, that I think many church goers mistake it's stimulation for a relationship with God.

I wouldn't go so far as saying enjoyment of worship music is idolatry, but I do think music can fill an emptiness that we sometimes want to avoid seeing in ourselves.

Sing us a song, you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
Well, were all in the mood for a melody
And you've got us feelin alright.
Billy Joel

MC


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Mike Compton

 2008/7/1 12:44Profile
tjservant
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Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

I believe MC, as well as others, really nailed it on the head. It seems that these folks listed above were willing to sacrifice what I believe are God ordained instruments of praise to keep all appearances of “be ye separate” from the world.

If you have not read the original post, please take the time to do so. There are some very interesting comments.

I’m glad this topic was received as it was intended. Not to divide but to provide some insight into the days of old and what they thought.

Many relevant concerns have also been raised by several posters.

Thanks to all for sharing your insights on this topic. Perhaps there is more to think about than we sometimes realize.

MC

Your Billy Joel quote speaks volumes.


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TJ

 2008/7/1 12:57Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
It is such a powerful emotional cue, or prop, that I think many church goers mistake it's stimulation for a relationship with God.



I have heard it said that folk have a hard time discerning the difference between the soulishness and emotions of the music and the unique presence of God. Could this be why so few seem to genuinely repent in our times? We have mistaken a stimulating musical arrangement for the anointing?

What really concerns me also is how men are able to exalt themselves and steer the worship towards man. If instruments are used, which David used, it to glorify God and not the musician. I guess I just deeply resent the whole 'rock star' worship leader thing.


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/7/1 13:19Profile
KennLove
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Joined: 2008/1/31
Posts: 30
Indianapolis, Indiana

 Re: What did early Christians believe about using instrumental music in worship?

Blessings!

Music and worship are oxymoronic when used in conjunction.
The Bible clearly states that God is a Spirit, and must be worshipped in spirit and in truth.
Music is for praise.
At the church I currently attend, the leader of the music program is called the Worship Pastor. This is erroneous.
Worship through music is soulish, because it excites the emotions.
Zac Poonen likens the "worship" of music and the "blessing" a hearer proclaims as going to a bar to drink with friends once a week. It fulfills the same soulish wants.
The church I attend, has thirty minutes of music, the leader "inviting" us to stand and sit, stand and sit, yet for the reading of God's word, we are rarely asked to stand. We then recieve thirty minutes of preaching.
If you ask why I attend this church if I'm so discerning of it, it is because the church has been a gateway to my daughter, her friend, their children and my wife to look forward to going to church on Sunday. I'm praying that they all will advance in their spirits to the point of desiring to express their love for God on a daily basis. All but my wife need deliverance, and this gateway is a start. Besides, when the pastor gets down to it, he presents the gospel well.
Worship and music are incompatible, but PRAISE and music are not.

Kenn


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Kenneth Roy Love

 2008/7/1 13:22Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
Can someone please quote scripture that talks about music that is being made onto the Lord, with instruments, as sinful?



Yes, I can! Here are some verses:

“Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." Phil. 2:4
“Live in harmony with one another.” Rom. 12:16
"But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way." 1 Cor. 14:40

In the music ministry there is a need for tastefulness, submission, and consideration - and that may include a degree of abstinance regarding instrumentation. I once was told by a pastor that we musicians were to use both piano and organ all the time; because the church bought them they must be used on all occasions. It so happened that he had no taste for music, nor did he respect the wisdom of musicians. Imagine if Beethoven had written a symphony using ALL the instruments ALL the time just because they all happened to be in the orchestra.

The combination of instruments with voice should reflect good musicianship and the working of the Body together in harmony. There is a constant need to consider balance of sound, and at the same time consider and respect others. That can be tricky.

The verse, “make a joyful NOISE unto the Lord” is not a free-for-all in the name of the Lord – at the expense of maturity in the Body.

(I realize I am "preaching to the choir" here!)

Diane


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Diane

 2008/7/1 14:29Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re:

Hello…

Should we make a list of all of the verses and passages of Scripture that bid us to worship the LORD with music? This would certainly prove difficult because there are just so many! These are not confined to the Old Testament, since we know that we will one day be given harps by God (Revelation chapter 15).

I understand the apprehension with an unhealthy fixation with music. There are musicians – even in the local congregation – who are almost revered as celebrities or iconic personalities for their musical skills. This is, of course, wrong (for both the musician to allow and for the congregation to think in such a way). In addition, music often mimics the popular “tastes” of the world. Instead of striving to please God with our music, we strive to satisfy our own earthly tendencies. But is the solution to this to out-and-out reject music as a language of worship?

As I said before, the Scriptures are FILLED with instructions to worship the Lord with music. Music is a language. It is filled with an alphabet (the basic EGBDF notes – plus an array of octaves, majors, minors and augmentations of each note). I do not lead people in worship at our congregation. When I am alone, I pick up the guitar and worship the Lord in both verbal and musical song. These are personally intimate times with the Lord. I sing in English, Spanish (on occasion), and sometimes, just by playing for Him. Some of the most intimate moments with the Lord have been when I took my guitar outside and worshipped the Lord as I sat alone under the majesty of Creation – as I played beneath the stars, on the rocks by the ocean, or on a mountaintop.

I just think that we should hesitate before we go off (as some of the men in the original post supposedly did) proclaiming the insignificance and trifling nature of music. Let me be clear: I don’t think that God [u]needs[/u] music. If I could play with the skill of Beethoven, it would still be earthly and flawed. God doesn’t need my music to make Him happy. I can certainly worship the Lord with my voice (and I do). But like prayer, most of my worship is done in the heart. It isn’t usually accompanied by voice (or instrumental music). The same is true of my prayers. Most of my prayers are confined to the sentiment of my heart. Still, on occasion, those sentiments often find a way of escaping the confines of my heart and making their way through my lips.

Someone once said, “[i]God gave us music so that we could pray without having to use words[/i].” I’m not so certain the validity of this remark, but I understand the contemplation behind it. There is a danger in idolizing or becoming infatuated or distracted by music or musicians. But is this the fault of the music, the instruments or even musicians? The root flaw, in my opinion, goes a little deeper. Our hearts should be so conditioned that music is as insignificant as those things around us. When I go to God in prayer, the world around me fades. Why? Because all of my intent, my heart and my passion is directed at God. I want to know Him sooooo much – that everything else is insignificant in comparison. The same is true when I worship – with or without music. He is all that really matters.

Should we throw the baby with the bathwater? Even if instrumental music is utilized for the wrong reasons, should we dismiss it completely? There are quite a few people who drive cars in order to show off their wealth, their personality or to drive in luxury. Some people speed…and others have even killed with cars. Regardless of the potential vice that comes from driving a car, should we make rules that believers should not drive cars simply because there are those who drive them in sin? The same could be said with our CD players and our internet-ready computers. The internet is a cesspool for pornography, and many men and women have fallen into that pit. Should I disconnect the internet simply because so many are affected in such a terrible way? What about those of us who use the internet for communication, news, weather, work or even as a means to study the Word of God and fellowship with other believers (via online Bibles and websites like SermonIndex)?

Jesus was quick to lay the axe to the root of issues. The issue with music, in my opinion, is not the music itself – but the condition of the hearts affected by it. If someone idolizes a worship leader – then the problem probably lay with the condition of that person’s heart (and quite possibly, the worship leader too). It someone has an unhealthy fixation with something as insignificant as music – then the issue is with the weakness of that person’s heart rather than with the musical language and sound produced by the instruments itself.

I think that it would be helpful to consider this when we read the words of men who would proclaim (or even impose) such far reaching public restrictions on musical instruments (or instrumental music). I just can’t find any Scriptural passages that would support such restriction. Yet I find many passages that promote the worship of the Lord – even in public – with musical instruments. But with everything, we should make sure that the heart is pure in regard to such things.

:-)


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Christopher

 2008/7/1 14:43Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
But with everything, we should make sure that the heart is pure in regard to such things.



I think this is true. I am concerned very much that folk have to much weight in on the music and it is a cheap 'substitute' for real worship and praise. I am not at all 'anti' instruments, but I think a great deal of attention needs to be given to the fact that God must be glorified in all we do. He will not share His glory with another.

If instruments were stripped from every church in the West next Sunday what would the attendance be?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2008/7/1 14:50Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
But with everything, we should make sure that the heart is pure in regard to such things.


This admonishment makes me a bit nervous. Who gets to “make sure”? Who gets to judge each participant’s heart? And what standards of “purity” does one go by? I was once instructed: Only invite Baptists to perform music in our church. At least then we can be safe. mmmm

Diane


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Diane

 2008/7/1 14:56Profile





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