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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Not Under Bondage–Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage -taylor

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Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3382
East TN (for now)

 Re: Not Under Bondage

Hello Everyone,

I humbly ask you to read this. The [b]root[/b] of this teaching, to me, is not Scripture based. On the outside, I admit, it seems so but when people think they cannot go to church anymore because they are divorced then an error has occured, imho. My pastor met a man while introducing himself to the neighborhood and invited him to church. He was a 65 year old man who sadly said that he could not possibly go because he had been divorced and Jesus wouldn't want him. He is one of the walking wounded this teaching has left in it's wake.

[i]Faith, hope and love and the greatest of these is love[/i]; 1 Corinthians 13.13. The last year or two, love has become the basis of my teachings. Jesus has enough preachers and teachers; what He needs is laborers of love. I'm just asking those of you who believe in the letter of the law to temper it with the greatest of these: love.

Pastorfrin, I'm not trying to tell you that you are wrong or that anyone else is. But can you admit that we only know in part and the other half has not been told to us? I ask this because your side has Scripture to back you up and they are valid but the other side does as well. Know this; [b]the truth of one Scripture cannot and does NOT rule out the truth of another Scripture.[/b]
And it's in this where the whole counsel of God lies.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/20 13:24Profile









 Re:

Regretfully, I am one of those people being spoken of here. I was born and raised Catholic and was very religious as a child. I loved God as much as a young kid could praying often and in constant wonderment of God and Christ... and yes at that time 'the saints'. Being athletic I played sports as a young kid through college. I lost touch with God and fell into the 'jock scene' which, as we all know, is not a righteous life. I was never mean or malicious to anyone, just very wayward. I waited a long time to get married because I wanted to get it right the first time. Still not saved, I started getting a lot of flak from people saying that I was too picky, or stubborn concerning dating others. People would set me up with their friends etc.. but if it didn't seem right I never pursued the situation. Finally there was a girl at my work who was going through a divorce... we had a good working relationship and she approached me about dating at some point. At first I resisted but I thought that maybe other's were right in that I was the problem and too picky. We dated and eventually married. We divorced about two years later and I was remarried and have been for seven years. About a year later, I was born again on the floor of my bedroom when I told the Lord that I was never good at running my own life and needed His help. Having serious back problems as well I pleaded His name and wanted to give my life over. At one moment I saw Christ on the Cross pleading for the Father to forgive the Roman soldiers for 'they know not what they do'. I got the impression that He speaking not only in that moment but for future sinners as well (I read an eerily similar testimony by a Pastor in Ireland on victoryoversin.com) At that very moment I was enlightened to the Romans ignorance of Christ as the Son of God because they were part of the world. I instantly became aware of the blindness of the world to Christ and instantly had Christ revealed to me in my inner spirit as my Savior. I have never been the same since. After this moment I was zealous for the Lord.... threw all of my past sports scrapbooks and awards away... threw away old college party pictures etc... (not that I was any less born again if I had kept them but it was a symbolic gesture of ridding myself of the old man). I have been an avid reader of Scripture and have written much in a personal diary on my revelations and my walk with the Lord. Even though I have my battles and struggles I am a completely changed from what I used to be. I love to pray and my favorite book is E.M. Bounds on Prayer. My Irish Catholic family has yet to figure out what has gotten into me. I pray they will... in much the same way.

I see all the debates here about marriage, divorce and so forth. I admit it is an epidemic and am against divorce as someone who has been through one and someone who loves the Lord. However I cannot understand how I came to that place on my bedroom floor if all of my sins were not forgiven of me when I cried out in desperation for forgiveness. I believed in my spirit through revelation that at that very moment my past was forgiven and my current situation was restored by Christ as if I was beginning anew... remarriage and all. I remember an incredible moment of total purging of who I used to be and that I belonged in a place much different than anyone else around me. I felt like a stranger in a strange land for a few months. I don't know the answer to a lot of the debates here but I do know that when I read what some people say I instantly become discouraged and weighted about my past, as having some kind of scarlet letter tattooed on me. I find myself saying I'm sorry to God about the past and wanting to make it right. There is soooo much information on this that it seems impossible to undo what has been done in my past and reconcile my situation in complete restitution to the Lord. It's as confusing as I'll get out with the litany of perspectives and eighteen part manifestoes on this. But I do know one thing.... I do love my wife, my kids, my God-my Savior, and my neighbors. And I do know what happened to me on that great day when everything changed for me.. when I felt renewed in my inner spirit. Nothing can take that away even if some of the doctrine here is technically correct. I don't know the answers to every problem and I don't know all there is to know about Greek, Hebrew, and their meticulous meanings and context. I just know that I'm not who I used to be and I know that it had nothing to do with me...that is the man who had a wayward life that included divorce and remarriage. It was The One who heard my plea and gave me forgiveness and restoration. I'm glad I didn't know the meticulous contexts and scholarship of Scripture... had I know what I know now I would have never pleaded for forgiveness. I either would have lived under a cloud of doom the remainder of my life, or relentlessly sought the advice of those who could have gotten me to complete restitution by rewriting my past and somehow undoing what I had done.

As it stands, that moment in my lowly ole' bedroom when God heard a pleading sinner wanting a change of heart and the subsequent joy in transformation from what I was to who God would like me to be, will have to suffice.

 2009/1/20 15:26
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Hi narrowpath and Lysa,

We need to see this from the right direction. No one is asking anyone not to attend church because they are divorced, or to divorce their current mate.

In Ezra chapters 9 & 10 they were given a choice to obey the word of God. Now this is important that we get this part.
They chose to be obedient to the word of God, even though the cost was great, they chose from a heart that was yielded to the Lord and they obeyed His word.
If we as the church of Jesus Christ will teach the word of God, of course in LOVE, and teach that His word does not accept any less than obedience as these scriptures show.

Romans 1:5
By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:

Romans 5:19
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.

Romans 6:16
Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

Romans 16:19
For your obedience is come abroad unto all men. I am glad therefore on your behalf: but yet I would have you wise unto that which is good, and simple concerning evil.

Romans 16:26
But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

1 Cor. 14:34
Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.

2 Cor. 7:15
And his inward affection is more abundant toward you, whilst he remembereth the obedience of you all, how with fear and trembling ye received him.

2 Cor. 10:5-6
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ; [6] And having in a readiness to revenge all disobedience, when your obedience is fulfilled.

Philemon 1:21
Having confidence in thy obedience I wrote unto thee, knowing that thou wilt also do more than I say.

Hebrews 5:8
Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

1 Peter 1:2
Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

We will see the Holy Spirit move in the hearts of God’s children and there will be a voluntary obedience unto the Lord.

For this to happen we must teach the truth and stop making excuses for our sins.

John 8:31-32
Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2009/1/20 15:43Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

ccrider wrote:

I see all the debates here about marriage, divorce and so forth. I admit it is an epidemic and am against divorce as someone who has been through one and someone who loves the Lord. However I cannot understand how I came to that place on my bedroom floor if all of my sins were not forgiven of me when I cried out in desperation for forgiveness. I felt that at that very moment my past was forgiven and my current situation was restored by Christ as if I was beginning anew... remarriage and all. I remember an incredible moment of total purging of who I used to be and that I belonged in a place much different than anyone else around me. I felt like a stranger in a strange land for a few months. I don't know the answer to a lot of the debates here but I do know that when I read what some people say I instantly become discouraged and weighted about my past. I find myself saying I'm sorry to God about the past and wanting to make it right. There is soooo much information on this that it seems impossible to undo what has been done in my past and reconcile my situation in complete restitution to the Lord. It's as confusing as I'll get out with the litany of perspectives on this but I do know one thing.... I do love my wife, my kids, my God-my Savior, and my neighbors. And I do know what happened to me on that great day when everything changed for me.. when I felt renewed in my inner spirit. Nothing can take that away even if some of the doctrine here is technically correct. I don't know the answers to every problem and I don't know all there is to know about Greek, Hebrew, and their meticulous meanings and context. I just know that I'm not who I used to be and I know that it had nothing to do with me...that is the man who had a wayward life that included divorce and remarriage. It was The One who heard my plea and gave me forgiveness and restoration. I'm glad I didn't know the meticulous contexts and scholarship of Scripture... had I know what I know now I would have never pleaded for forgiveness. I either would have lived under a cloud of doom the remainder of my life, or relentlessly sought the advice of those who could have gotten me to complete restitution by rewriting my past and somehow undoing what I had done.

As it stands, that moment in my lowly ole' bedroom when God heard a pleading sinner wanting a change of heart and the subsequent joy in transformation from what I was to who God would like me to be, will have to suffice.



Dear ccrider,

This is powerful testimony of the grace of God. I hope you read all my posts. The very reason I came on this thread speaking the way I did is because of the truth you have stated in your post.

Brother whom the Son makes free is free indeed. God loves your wife and children also and is not in the business of breaking up homes over your past sins. They are under the blood. Thank God he does give you a new beginning.

There is no sin that the blood of Jesus can not make atonement.

Blessings to all!

 2009/1/20 15:58Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Dear Brethren,

Just because someone believes we shouldn’t be legalistic toward those who have been married before does not mean as some accuse that he/she doesn’t believe in keeping the Lord’s commandments.

I believe without holiness no man shall see the Lord and that if we love him then we are to keep his commandments. Jesus delivers us from all sin and those who are truly born of God cannot continue in sin willfully.

God hates divorce and he also hates all sin. The scriptures concerning Jesus’ teachings on marriage and divorce are taken to heart and I have been faithful to my wife and she has to me because of our relationship to the Lord.

I would dare say how many who have not committed adultery some time in their life. Jesus said that if you look at a woman to lust after her you have committed adultery in your heart.

Jesus brought the Law of God to man’s heart. There is a higher standard for heart righteousness under grace than there was under the law. Jesus even said unless our righteousness exceeds that of the Scribes and Pharisees’ we shall in no wise enter the kingdom of heaven. It is clear that man must be born of God having the nature of Christ in order to keep his commandments.

God has nothing to do with all the people committing adultery nor does he put all those marriages together. The people living in sin did as their natures were leading them to do. Most of these people are in rebellion to God, so we know that God is not putting their marriages together.

When a person is truly born again and in right relationship with God having repented of their sins, they are forgiven cleansed by the blood of Jesus. We make things right where it is possible to do so. Jesus has never told anyone to divorce to go back to a previous marriage or to remain single in the new covenant.

I heard a preacher one time tell about Jesus at the well with the woman who had 5 husbands and living with a man not her husband…he said that Jesus told her to go back to her first husband and he would give her eternal life. I search the scriptures and found no such thing. I fear more today of misleading someone concerning the word of God than ever. The bible says that Jesus revealed to her that he knew that she, over her life, had 5 husbands and the one who was living with her now was not her husband. He had already told her that if she knew who he was, that she would have asked him for living water.

Two wrongs can not make a right. Divorcing again after you are saved, because you were married & divorced before you got saved, will not make you any holier nor pleasing to God, neither will you find it in the new covenant.

We are not saved by works of righteousness that we did but by his mercy and grace.

Blessings to all!

 2009/1/20 16:13Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3382
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
pastorfrin wrote:
We need to see this from the right direction.


Would that be [b]your[/b] direction of understanding? [big grin]

Quote:
No one is asking anyone not to attend church because they are divorced, or to divorce their current mate..


I think you missed my 2nd sentence... "[i]The [b]root of this teaching[/b], to me, is not Scripture based.[/i]" It is the root and it's many offshoots that are causing people to think that they are not worthy to go to church or that Jesus doesn't want them because they are not good enough.

And my point is that if the root is bad, then it isn't based on Scripture but man's assumptions and so the rest is bad.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/20 17:07Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3382
East TN (for now)

 Re: Not Under Bondage–Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage -taylor

pastorfrin,

This caught my eye....

Quote:
pastorfrin wrote:
Now this is important that we get this part. They chose to be obedient to the word of God, even though the cost was great, they chose from a heart that was yielded to the Lord and they obeyed His word.


I know you said no one was asking but I'm wondering if someone came to you as their pastor and said, "I want to obey the word and put away my second wife." What would you tell them?


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/20 17:09Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3382
East TN (for now)

 Re:

ccrider,

Praise God brother for what the Lord has done in your life.

Quote:
As it stands, that moment in my lowly ole' bedroom when God heard a pleading sinner wanting a change of heart and the subsequent joy in transformation from what I was to who God would like me to be, will have to suffice.


Amen!! When God speaks to you, you know it! Don't let no man steal your crown!!!

God bless,


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/20 17:12Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Brothers and Sisters,

Here is the five part teaching on Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage.
Just click on the link you wish to listen and may the Holy Spirit teach you
And guide your decision.

Quote from Pt. 3 The Exception Clause

“As the modern Church has drifted so far from this ancient teaching, the sight of such a far-off resolve can seem almost a fantasy. Many Christians may find themselves in situations which seem hopeless; or they may feel there are no answers to their discouraging situations. And as we said before, once many of these truths are realized, people or churches may differ as to how to deal with each case. However, I think it has been proven well enough through the centuries that turning a blind eye and ignoring the situation has only made matters worse. The first step toward recovering lost ground is to come to grips with the words of Christ, Himself—to truly take Him at His Word, by faith. After that…remember, “Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil 1:6).”




Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage
By Dean Taylor

Pt. 1 http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/May/theremnant-May2007-covenant.a5w

Pt. 2 http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2007/July/theremnant-July2007-one-flesh.a5w

Pt. 3 http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/1Q/theremnant-2008-1Q-exception-clause.a5w

Pt. 4 http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/2Q/theremnant-2008-2Q-bondage.a5w

Pt. 5 http://www.charityministries.org/theremnant/2008/3Q/theremnant-2008-3Q-divorce.a5w

 2009/1/20 18:38Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Dear Brethren,

Let’s look at the scriptures:

1 Corinthians 7:10-11 (KJV) 10 And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
The apostle in these two verses of scripture is talking to believers who are married not to depart from one another but if they did for some reason, they were to remain unmarried or be reconciled.

Paul now is going to deal with mixed marriages.
1Co 7:12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
1Co 7:13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
1Co 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.
1Co 7:16 For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife?

The apostle Paul here is telling believers not to leave the unbelievers if they were pleased to dwell with them because they maybe saved and that is God’s heart to save the lost. They knew the apostles teaching on not being yoked together with unbelievers and that they were only to marry in the Lord. Paul did not want them to leave the unbeliever if they were pleased to dwell with them because it might cause them to be saved.

Paul also tells them that if they will not dwell with them peacefully and they want to depart let them because God wants there to be peace. He goes on to tell them that if the unbeliever departs that a brother or sister is not under bondage in such cases.

Study the scriptures and one can clearly see that God does not want believers yoked with unbelievers because what fellowship hath light with darkness. Paul is only telling the believers in Christ to remain unmarried or be reconciled to their spouse if they were to depart.

Think about this, if Paul tells those believers in mixed marriages not to depart from the unbelievers when they are pleased to dwell with them and also that if they did depart they were not under bondage…why would we as preachers today tell a saved man or woman to divorce their spouse and leave their children to go back to a marriage when they were in sin. The scriptures never say this; only people who are ignorant to the riches of the mercy of God.

The scriptures are silent concerning the past marriage of those who were in sin and who were not believers in Christ because when you confess your sins and get saved all your past sins are forgiven and cleansed by the blood. God who is merciful and kind says he will not remember them any more. He makes you a new creature and can even save the family that you are presently in and will not tell you to do anything to hurt someone else. If your unsaved spouse that you are presently with is pleased to dwell with you then they may get save because of what God did for you. The scripture never tells a born again believer to go back to a marriage when he was living in sin without Christ. In the new covenant there is never a command to divorce your spouse to be single neither is there a command to go back to a former marriage.

I guess you could say I feel passionate about not condemning someone for their past. I don’t want my Lord Jesus to be misrepresented concerning the power of the blood of His cross.

Blessings to all!

 2009/1/20 21:34Profile





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