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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Not Under Bondage–Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage -taylor

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pastorfrin
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Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
No offense to anyone but thank God for some compassionate sound reasoning by John Owen and thanks to Savannah for posting it.

The sad thing is the fact that some are so zealous to strain out a gnat but swallow camels.

It is so easy to bind others to something that you have never been unfortunate to have happened to you.

I am thankful to have been faithfully marriage to one woman over 24 years but God has also taught me not to be legalistic to those who have been less fortunate.

Paul said it well in:

1Co 7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: It is good for a man not to touch a woman.
1Co 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

I don't care how you look at it nor how long you study until you are mad but these two scriptures is for those who do not have the gift of celibacy. God has given marriage for those who don't have the gift of celibacy and God would rather have a person married in a commitment to one person to avoid fornication.

Blessings to you all!




Hi rbanks,

I was just curious to see if you considered a higher divorce rate in the church than in the world, straining out gnats?

Paul also said:

Romans 7:1-3
Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? [2] For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband. [3] So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.


1 Cor. 7:10-11
And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband: [11] But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.

1 Cor. 7:39
The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.

We must follow the word of God in spite of our circumstances, His word must prevail.

Each one must work this out with the Lord, not according to mans opinions or our feelings, but according to the word of God.
IMHO

In His Love
pastorfrin


 2009/1/19 23:42Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

MaryJane wrote:
Greetings rbanks

I was going to respond to your post in which you wrote: It is so easy to bind others to something that you have never been unfortunate to have happened to you.
_______
I have prayed about this, at this time not wanting to respond out of my flesh I will only say its interesting that you assume those of us who support this teaching that Greg shared have never had these kinds of things happened to them.

God Bless
Mj




If anyone has who supports the teaching of legalism then I want you to know that the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses from all sin and that God can put your sins into the sea of his forgetfulness never to remember them no more. If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgives us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

God does not expect you to undo your past nor does he expect you to live in guilt. He is the God who makes all things new and he can give you a brand new beginning, praise his name!

 2009/1/19 23:44Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:

Each one must work this out with the Lord, not according to mans opinions or our feelings, but according to the word of God.
IMHO

In His Love
pastorfrin





Amen! I agree, but I also do not agree with beating a person when they are down and to condemn a person for their past.

 2009/1/19 23:48Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:

rbanks wrote:
Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:

Each one must work this out with the Lord, not according to mans opinions or our feelings, but according to the word of God.
IMHO

In His Love
pastorfrin





Amen! I agree, but I also do not agree with beating a person when they are down and to condemn a person for their past.




Brother,

Over the years I have counseled many couples who wanted to get a divorce. There were several whose reason was not adultery, abuse, but we do not love each other any more. These were men and women who claimed to be Christians and were members of the church, who were willing to totally ignore the word of God.
No amount of persuasion would change their mind and they eventually divorced.

If you were the pastor on the other side of town and one or all of these started attending your church after being divorced and came to you for counsel to get married to someone else; how would you counsel them?

If the word of God is not our standard, then we will continue to have a divorce rate in the church that equals or surpasses the world because the church has become just like the world.

In His Love
pastorfrin

 2009/1/20 0:29Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 997
Germany NRW

 Re: Not Under Bondage–Marriage, Divorce, and Remarriage -taylor

How then should we treat former devorced and remarried couples who come into a congregation?

Of those, some were remarried when still sinners, and some remarried after their conversion, ignorant of what the bible taught.

There is quite a number of those in churches nowadays. I know of Christian devorcees who remarry and then just join another church.

Should we admit them unconditionally?
Should we admit them but make it very clear that we do not endorse what they did lest they set an example?
Should we see their new marriage as valid and sanctified though it was done contrary to the word of God?
Should we not admit them at all?
Should we exclude the man from any form of leadership and teaching?

These are tough questions every eldership has to face nowadays.

 2009/1/20 7:18Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3385
East TN (for now)

 Re:

Quote:
pastorfrin wrote:
If the word of God is not our standard, then we will continue to have a divorce rate in the church that equals or surpasses the world because the church has become just like the world.


I do not want to sound like a heretic but have mercy and listen.... The word of God is not a standard to follow legalistically because [b][i]the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/b][/i]

Quote:
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God–ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; [b]but our sufficiency is of God; who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.[/b]
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 ¶ Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 [b]Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.[/b]
2 Corinthians 3


The problem is not the divorce rate, the problem is the hearts of men. After a person gets divorced and remarried (and over and over again)... I know this goes all over people who have stayed by the stuff when they didn't want to but we must look at the fruit of the divorced person's life (the fruit of the Spirit). Jesus said we shall know them by their fruit.

I understand that all who get a divorce may not be fit to pastor or teach anymore (that is understandable) but I also know that there are those out there with good fruit (finally) in their lives. This is what "I" am speaking of; those who God has finally gotten down inside their souls.

What does the Spirit now say about them, have you prayed and asked God about them? In Acts 9.11, Ananias didn't want to go anywhere near Saul but God said, "Behold, he prays now!"

My heart breaks for the church of the living God because they no longer live by the Spirit or walk by the Spirit only by the letter which is killing good people that God loves.


_________________
Lisa

 2009/1/20 10:03Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

Quote:

pastorfrin wrote:

Brother,

Over the years I have counseled many couples who wanted to get a divorce. There were several whose reason was not adultery, abuse, but we do not love each other any more. These were men and women who claimed to be Christians and were members of the church, who were willing to totally ignore the word of God.
No amount of persuasion would change their mind and they eventually divorced.




By your own words you admit your failure at keeping them from getting a divorce. Then you go and say that someone else across town is supposed to keep them from getting married. Are you saying that you believe in controlling people and making them obey the Law? I know you love God and want people to live right before God because if you didn't you wouldn't even know God yourself. We can't make people do something they don't want to do. The apostle Paul said in:

1Co 2:1 And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
1Co 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
1Co 2:3 And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
1Co 2:5 That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

He did not try to use persuasive speech but in the demonstration of the Spirit and power of God. He did not want people to have their faith in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. Many of the people who are walking away from their marriage and getting a divorce are not born of God and walking in his Spirit. When the word of God is preached in the power of the Spirit then it is the Spirit that does the work in a person’s heart.

I believe in preaching the whole counsel of God. I believe in being led by God to work with a person according to their situation by the Spirit of the living God and not by the letter of the Law. The bible says that the letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life.

Every situation you encounter is different and God hates legalism as much as he hates liberalism. There is a lot in the article that is fine, as well as what you said in your post, but what is not the word of God is what I disagree with. We are not to add to nor are we to take away.

I know of two ministers filled with the Holy Spirit preaching the blood and the cross reaching a harvest for Jesus. I will never forget what God showed me concerning one of them who has now preached in others countries in places few would go and has seen God save many.

I remember the day he got saved and I called and talked to his wife and she told me that he didn't know if he could join our church because he had been divorced...she also told me that she was his second wife of 10 years. The spirit immediately sent me to Hebrews to tell him that it was under the blood and that all his sins he would remember no more. I went on talking to her and praise is to God, this day that brother’s whole household is saved his wife and children. God is blessing this brother like few I have seen. How I could have messed things up if I had stuck to the letter and not allowed the Spirit to minister life to one of God's children.

The psalmist David said that if the Lord marked our sins who would be able to stand. I will not place any sins higher than the blood of Christ. How many people today have been divorced and remarried but are not saved? These people need to be saved and they can't undo their past but they can be washed and sanctified to live a holy life before the Lord and know that all their sins are forgiven. They also need to know that they have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

I love the truth but I don't love condemning people for something the Lord forgives. Have you ever wondered why someone who had a past failed marriage but to a legalistic view they are living in adultery...either needing to go back to their first marriage or divorce again to remain single. What about those who have slept with so many partners but never married...they don't have anything to worry about because they never tried to make a commitment in the first place. This is all nonsense, where does it end...I'll tell you where it ends at the cross through the blood of his everlasting covenant. Hallelujah! Praise the Lord!

Blessings to all!



 2009/1/20 11:13Profile
pastorfrin
Member



Joined: 2006/1/19
Posts: 1406


 Re:

Quote:

narrowpath wrote:
How then should we treat former devorced and remarried couples who come into a congregation?

Of those, some were remarried when still sinners, and some remarried after their conversion, ignorant of what the bible taught.

There is quite a number of those in churches nowadays. I know of Christian devorcees who remarry and then just join another church.

Should we admit them unconditionally?
Should we admit them but make it very clear that we do not endorse what they did lest they set an example?
Should we see their new marriage as valid and sanctified though it was done contrary to the word of God?
Should we not admit them at all?
Should we exclude the man from any form of leadership and teaching?

These are tough questions every eldership has to face nowadays.





Hi narrowpath,

The problem is, it is not being faced it is being ignored.

If one reads the entire teaching from Charity Ministries, this is covered and I would recommend all to do so.

This may sound very cold and I will be accused of following the law and not the Spirit of Christ, but the answer is found in Ezra 9 & 10. If you read the way this was accomplished and the oneness and brokenness of their spirits, we see how if we truly took this to the Lord and were willing to sacrifice, truly hurt and suffer with one another; how this could be accomplished. It would take much prayer and much loving support for those affected. Actually this would involve the whole church coming together in repentance and prayer and would affect all of the church for quite some time. The results though would bring the church of Jesus Christ back in line with the word of God and the benefit would far out weigh the sacrifice.

Will it happen? No, we as a people are so polluted by the spirit of this age that we are not willing to sacrifice in small matters let alone one as large as this. Instead we will continue to discuss the issue and the world will continue to wax worse and worse taking a majority of the professed church with it because they refuse to obey the words of Jesus Christ.

John 14:15-24
If ye love me, keep my commandments. [16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. [19] Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. [20] At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. [21] He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. [22] Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? [23] Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. [24] He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

In His Love
pastorfrin



 2009/1/20 11:39Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings pastorfrin

you wrote:Will it happen? No, we as a people are so polluted by the spirit of this age that we are not willing to sacrifice in small matters let alone one as large as this. Instead we will continue to discuss the issue and the world will continue to wax worse and worse taking a majority of the professed church with it because they refuse to obey the words of Jesus Christ.
_______________
I agree with you 100%. Its so sad but completely true.

God Bless you dear brother
MJ

 2009/1/20 11:49Profile
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 997
Germany NRW

 Re:

Hi Pastorfrin,

I checked their site but could not find any free material. If this is to be done according to Ezra 9-10, do you say that we should tell them to dissolve these marriages and join the church as single mothers or fathers with children?
Would that not mean another divorce ?
I am just asking, because this question has troubled me for a while. Has that ever happened?

narrowpath

 2009/1/20 13:12Profile





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