| Tribulation is at the Door|
Here is a quote from Thomas a Kempis
Jesus has many who love His kingdom in heaven, but few who bear His cross. He has many who desire comfort, but few who desire suffering. He finds many to share His feast, but few His fasting.All desire to rejoice with Him, but few are willing to suffer for His sake. Many follow Jesus to the breaking of the bread, but few to the drinking of the cup of His passion. Many admire the miracles, but few follow Him to the humiliation of the cross. Many love Jesus as long as no hardship touches them.
Here is a quote from the Holy Spirit
Only let your conduct be worthy of the Gospel of Christ, so that whether I come to you, or are absent, I may hear of your affairs, that you stand fast in one Spirit, with one mind, striving together for the faith of the Gospel, and not in any way terrified by your adversaries which is to them a proof of your perdition, but to you of salvation, and that from God.For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake, having the same conflict that you saw in me and now hear is in me.(Phil 1:27-30)
Brothers and sisters, there is a coming tribulation. The church as we know it will change completely. It is almost at the door. The enemies of true and genuine Christians will not come from "without," but will come from "within." Many of you reading this will undoubtedly believe in a pre- tribulation rapture, I want you to put that aside for the moment, at best it is a non-essential. It only becomes an essential in regard to discernment. It has often been said in the world, and there is much wisdom in it, that one should hope for the best and prepare for the worse. Perhaps a pre-tribulation rapture is "hoping for the best," yet if this is not true(and I do not believe it to be so) then you are unprepared for the worse.
In the coming months and short years, we will begin to see a sharp division amongst Christians of every persuasion. When it is all boiled down you will have two basic groups. Number one of the opposing doctrines is roughly this. God wants all of His people to be rich and successful. They are to prosper and acquire. Now there are degrees of this teaching, some extreme, some more moderate, but all the same teaching. One of the extreme views from this philosophy is that Jesus is not coming back until every believer has an actual mansion here on earth. Along with this view is that God does not want us to suffer in any way, that Jesus did all the suffering and therefore we do not have to. A more moderate view is that Christians should be employers, not employees. They should own a house not rent. They should run the Government, not be run by it. Men of this persuasion want to see a physical kingdom here on earth , which they run. They want to acquire lands and influence, secular power here on earth. This is the way that they will change the world, and we only have to believe to bring all of this to pass.
They claim that we Christians are destined for all of this and that we have to reach out and take our rightful place on earth. They say that we were called to have dominion over the earth and all of its treasures. And weaved through all of this is Biblical principals of sowing and reaping, testing God and seeing if He will not bless and so on. Now we also see the blending of this philosophy with a secular one called The secret, championed by people like Oprah Winfrey. Beware brothers and sisters, you may just get exactly what your heart desires, but the price may be a leanness of your soul.
The other view is a view of suffering. It is one of humiliation, one that believes that the Kingdom of God is not physical but that it lies within each believer. It believes that we are to join Christ on His road to Calvary(the proponents of the previous view would never deny many of these) This view believes that God will effect change, one life at a time.They also believe that there is a coming catastrophe, almost at the door, and that we must ready ourselves. In order to ready ourselves we must seek a closer walk with Jesus, we must abide in Him fully if we are to be strong in the coming days. Guys like Tony Evans, and David Wilkerson and Franklin Graham are proponents of this view.
I believe that we are living in exceedingly lean , times in the church because the Lord is giving us over to the desires of our hearts, what a price to pay! In order to counteract the leanness, to fill the void that has been left by the departing of the corporate presence of God, places like Lakeland have sprung up. Most of the proponents of Lakeland and other such movements believe that no believer should be sick and that all should be wealthy, just another branch of the health and wealth movement. Of course this has universal appeal. What human, in any society or culture does not want health and wealth? True treasure is the presence of the Lord. True treasure is the gifts of the Lord in operation in our lives and in our Churches. Are you willing to give up everything for the cost of Christ? This pearl of great price, what are you willing to give for it? What will you sacrifice for it? This attitude has to be the cry of Christians. No matter what happens to us, as long as we are with Him, then we know that we will be OK. It is this attitude that will carry us through. When we are faced with great difficulties the Scripture tells us not to be terrified, an extremely strong word, derived from a horse in full panic.
When the world sees Christians react, and when the devil sees Christians react this way Scripture tells us that they see this as proof of perdition, but to you of salvation. The Greek word for proof, here is a legal term denoting evidence by an analysis of the facts. When you receive bad news , and the world analyses your reaction, would it see terror, panic, anxiousness, fear, and if it did, what would that prove? In the coming tribulation, those who follow the first philosophy, who spent there time acquiring or chasing after the riches of this earth, will react in terror to all that will unfold. You see, when you are taught that you should only be rich and that you should always be healthy, then there will come the day, when you get sick, or a loved one dies or you suffer financial loss. The people of the first persuasion are not equipped to deal with these naturally occurring events. They have never had their Gethsemane moment where they have cried out "Not my will but yours be done." I might add, that this led to the death and humiliation of the Lord, and also to His victory and resurrection over the very things feared of in the garden. The people of the first persuasion cannot join brother Paul and say ...
Philippians 4:11-12 (ASV) 1 Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therein to be content. 12 I know how to be abased, and I know also how to abound: in everything and in all things have I learned the secret both to be filled and to be hungry, both to abound and to be in want. 13 I can do all things in him that strengtheneth me. 14 Howbeit ye did well that ye had fellowship with my affliction.
You see, it is impossible for them to know how to be content in poverty, or in sickness, or indeed to trust in the Lord and His promises, even when we cannot see Him or feel His presence. And so they will flock to people who will promise them all of their hearts desires. The world is always amazed at the peace someone has in the midst of trials and tribulations. They are not amazed that a rich man has no anxiety about paying his bills. They are not amazed that a healthy person is not worrying about their health, they are amazed at the person, who despite their circumstances, move in joy and peace and love. The world will be drawn to people who have this "knowledge." The religious people will hate them. They will hate them because not only do they stand against everything that they believe and trust in, they will hate them because their "Christianity," is exposed by the ones who walk in true peace, despite their circumstances. Paul had learned to draw closer to God because of his circumstances, he learned to be more dependant upon Him and therefore was able to "do all things in Him."
And so brothers and sisters. The religious people, the people that run to Lakeland and other such movements and demand from God particular circumstances in order to worship Him, these are the people who will come after us in the days of the coming tribulation. With a Saul spirit they will pursue and hunt down all those who are in genuine relationship with the Lord. They will be the arm of the anti-Christ. They will be used to identify every true believer. Every true believer will walk as Paul walked, in the Spirit despite circumstances. Their faith will not founder on the rocks because of circumstances, and this will drive the religious people (dead denominations, legalists, false professors, "Lakeland people," word of faithers and many others) crazy, just as Saul could not handle David coming into the presence of the Lord. Saul hunted David down. The man who once prophesied, hunted David down because he was so "troubled," by him.
This troubling spirit is a spirit that will be widespread. Those who are not sold out to Jesus, in spite of their circumstances, will find no peace and rest from anywhere. This is why they will so viciously hunt down and expose every true believer in the coming time of tribulation. The world nor Satan is impressed or bothered by men who love Gods kingdom but refuse to bear His cross, who love comfort but detest suffering, who willingly shares His feast, but refuse to share His fast, who only love rejoicing but who will not rejoice in His suffering, who will break His bread but not fully drink of His passion, who love to run after miracles, but will run away at a gallop from His humiliation. Use your discernment brothers and sisters, follow the way of the Lord and you will not go wrong in this world of many voices. Acknowledge Him, in ALL OF HIS WAYS and He will direct your paths
| 2008/6/24 12:32|
| Re: Tribulation is at the Door|
Appolus:I could not agree with you more. I have stood this ground for a while now, and I feel that so many are fulfilling the deep insights of Karl Marx. "Religion is the opiate of the people."
The religious deceptions that we are encountering, and they are too many to name, seem to have the ability to completely stupify a man, indeed as if he were on Opium. Even on this forum, I have encountered somewhat obstinate dogma, that loves the right of a matter, much more than the truth of it.[not that anyone as to agree for me to accept them , or ideas.]
I would submit that this roots itself in the faith in Bad doctrine. They have become "indoctrinated", or psychologically proselytized. They cannot hear. This is why Jesus said, "BE careful,[b]how[/b] you hear. Religion kills.
I know there is a tribulation coming. I am not happy about it, at all. I believe that America will be attacked and invaded, with a wake of 100 million dead. 2 for 1 of each infant slaughtered. This may seem radical. but read Lamentations. I fear concerning my own faith, and how I will trust. This is the only thing that will carry us through.
All the Electrical grids down...water scarce...cities burned...suffering everywhere. Read Lamentations, and this was upon His enlightened beloved! America was once also. We are different now.
We have entered into the times of the 10 virgins. 5 had oil [faith and presence]....5 did not. The Bridegroom awakened them. Some could see their way, some could not. Preparation is everything, and it all centers on our unyielding trust, that Jesus is The unlimited God of Gods, and that he will provide us everything....as He provided the Sacrifice of Himself. He will provide for those who trust in Him. "Cultivate faithfulness"
Psalm 37, vs. 3-6...."Trust in the Lord"..."Commit your way unto Him...TRUST..and He will do it!" This is provision in the time to come, which will culminate in a great falling away, as everything vanishes except the Lordship of Jesus.
| 2008/6/24 13:24|
Preparation is everything, and it all centers on our unyielding trust, that Jesus is The unlimited God of Gods, and that he will provide us everything....as He provided the Sacrifice of Himself. He will provide for those who trust in Him. "Cultivate faithfulness"
Well said brother.
Preparation is everything. A good soldier is always prepared. May we all be found in a ready state.
| 2008/6/24 13:47||Profile|
Washington DC area
I totally agree with both of you. Now is the time to prepare and allow the Holy Spirit to deal with our hearts, our independent ways and actions and learn to lean upon the Rock. The Baal system of the Western world is about to be cast down by God himself...
I was reminded of the beautitudes when I read this and am understanding it to be a progression of sorts. The starting point is that we must always be "poor in spirit" or to paraphrase be utterly unable to do anything of our own accord. We must be helpless, powerless and we certainly are but we're a can-do people. It's anti-American to be poor in spirit...
I'm finding that most people no longer want to talk about the things of God around me because there's an utter seriousness that exposes the shallowness of the culture we're in...
The persecution and tribulation are a bit down the line. There's a great deal of work to do in a short time. May Jesus bring us through to where we'll suffer in great joy because we're utterly given over to Jesus and the beautitudes are a reflect of what He has done in our hearts. To God be the glory!
If we're not poor in spirit, the next thing will not happen. We'll not mourn over our sin because we'll see no point in it and so on down through the list...
3"Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4Blessed are those who mourn, for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek, for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they will be filled.
7Blessed are the merciful, for they will be shown mercy.
8Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.
9Blessed are the peacemakers, for they will be called sons of God.
10Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.
The greek word for poor used in verse 3 is the same word used in Revelations 3:17 [b]Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:[/b]
May the Holy Spirit give us eyes to see our true spiritual condition before Him.
| 2008/6/24 13:48||Profile|
Hi Brothertom ....you said
"We have entered into the times of the 10 virgins. 5 had oil [faith and presence]....5 did not. The Bridegroom awakened them. Some could see their way, some could not."
Amen to that brother. You also said this
"I fear concerning my own faith, and how I will trust. This is the only thing that will carry us through."
I love your honesty bro. The only thing that we differ in is how it will come to pass. I do not see America being invaded. The anti-christ will come from a "revived roman empire." I know that we will agree to that. This will probably be Europe proper, or the country where European's fled to and created "another Europe."
I think if we think about "Mystery Babylon," and how all the world was made rich by her, it may lead one to conclude that America could very possibly be the "Revived Roman Empire."
So here is my theory, and since I guessed it, it is most probably wrong :)(none of us can really know how it will unfold) ...America is attacked, just liked you said.Perhaps Britain and Europe as well. So, London, Paris, New York and Washigton each are bombed. Suitcase bomb or something like that. Hundreds of thousands are killed.
The worlds economy, already fragile, is in total chaos. Worse than that, the world is plunged into total fear and insecurity. Someone famous once said that if people had to choose between anarchy and dictatorship, they would choose dictatorship every time. The leading countries of the world call a summit. At this summit, led by a Charismatic politician and backed by the Pope and other religious leaders such as Dobson and Pat Robertons, and by Pentecostal guys like Copeland and so on, they agree that the need for security is first and foremost.
They intitiate a program that will put this chip that we all know about, in everyone of us. Only enemies of the state and those who seek to do harm will resist, they say. Religious leaders will calm the "religious," people down by assuring them that this is not the number of the beast.
Most of the world would laugh at this notion anyway, but the "religous," are convinced because they are told that the "saints,' would never have to have the mark of the beast because Jesus comes and raptures them before the tribulation. So, therefore, this cannot be the mark of the beast. Also they are convinced that God would not want them to suffer.
Those who are left are the true Christians, the sheep have just been separtaed from the goats. Since you would not be able to buy or sell without the mark, not be able to work, you will lose everything material. You will be scorned at. You will be cast in the same light as the terrorists.The governments will tell the people that we are a "disruptive," force on the earth.
They will embrace an all encomapssing philosophy that will say somehing along the lines that we all worship the same God, there may be differences between Jesus and Mohammed, but these are not differences that should divide us. We should be tolerant and fully accept that there are many paths to God, in fact, did not Jesus say that He had "other sheep." People are so biblically illiterate that they will not know the truth.
We, then become a burden to a society in total chaos. Since we do not work, then we do have the ability to feed oursleves. After a while we will be rounded up. Society is very angry at "people like us." We will be fed by the government, until there is such an outcry against us. Then they, at some point, will begin to kill us.
Now brothertom, you reckoned on a 100 million being killed. I reckon that hundreds of thousand will be killed in the bombs. Yet, Ravenhill used to say that he believed only about 2% of America was actually saved, that makes it about 6 million will be killed in this country alone. Now if you think that it is ridiculous, just think back 60 years and remember that 6 million Jews were killed for the mere fact of being Jews.
So bottom line guys, I think that brothertoms attitude of fearing concerning his own faith is a correct one. This is the proper attitude. We must beware when we stand lest we fall. Now is the time to get our attitude right about material possesions, about trials, about tribulations. Now is the time to learn to be content and finding God's peace in the midst of the storms. If we do not get there now, we will not make it once it starts.
Its exactly what brothertom says in regard to the 10 virgins. If you have to run around and look for oil once this starts, there will be none to be found. For the mark will come quickly and you will have no time really to consult, only those who have already prepared for it Spiritually will be read and "go in." There will be much weeping and gnashing of teeth............Frank
| 2008/6/24 14:31|
I cannot add a word to the first two posts of this thread, it is a mouthful and a word that should encompass all of us, in truth.
How will we react, how will we stand firm?
For the past couple three years i have had thoughts of such a kind as this, "what would i do if...a group of muslims raided my house and held a knife to my wife's throat demanding I renounce my faith and Christ," and the like.
I have had an easy life.
And it seems to me that those in the past that have prayed to the Lord to make them a flame of fire or have pleaded that the Lord will use them in an ultimate way get their wish. Men such as Oswald Chambers, Robert McCheyne and jim Eliot.
How should we then pray...
| 2008/6/24 16:22||Profile|
I believe these tribulations will drive the true body of Christ back into a more communal type living environment
a shedding of self-reliance that will promote unity.
Where I am from many folks live on large tracts of land and would be able to live from hunting, fishing, and growing their own grains and vegetables. Ponds and streams as well as timber and trees are plentiful. God will provide a way for His children to survive and prosper. Prosper in spirit that is
so that even in the dark times we speak of
His body will shine and show His Love.
God has been preparing me for these very times. Four years ago I had two houses plus an additional piece of secluded forest land I had plans for building a hunting cabin on. I had vehicles and a tool set that would turn Bob villa green. I had more CDs and DVDs than anyone on this planet could possibly use and of course a stereo system and home theater setup to match. Computers, gadgets
the list could go on and on.
Just a few months after I was saved
I lost it all
including my wife and dog.
I thank the good Lord above that I now live in a small one bedroom apartment with one small couch, a table with two chairs, and a twin bed.
I have never been so content in all of my life. Praise be to God! He loved me enough to remove the things that were going to be a problem for me. He loved me enough to prepare me for what was, and is, to come.
Frank really nailed it on the head with his comment about contentment. He is right. Find it now
before it is to late. You can be content with nothing when He is your everything.
I pray that God prepares and strengthens us all for the times to come.
Grace and peace
| 2008/6/24 17:01||Profile|
Hi Tj...you could be right, intitially. Yet we will be called to be martyrs in the "Tribulation." We will have perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Him. And think about this, when we are gathered up, this will be the greatast gathering of true believers since the time of Christ. The fellowship will be amazing, every one a totaly sold out believer to the Lord our God. That excites me. Can you imagine the worship? The presence of God? If the Lords coming is almost at the door, this is not doomsday as some would describe it, this would make it the most glorious time in history. Yes, it will be the darkest time in history, just before the dawn, but oh how our light will shine in that darkness, and that light will be consumed in the light of Christ Himself.....Frank
| 2008/6/24 17:47|
There has been similar thoughts for the past few years of the same communal type living, the need to garden and grow our own food.
should we prepare, then?
Not hoard, but prepare?
| 2008/6/25 9:28||Profile|
I think that it is pretty clear what the end result is for Christians who go into the Tribulation. I think that it is always good to have a supply of "stuff," for any possible disaster, but this event is going to herald the end of Humanity..........Frank
| 2008/6/25 12:43|