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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : How Deep Has the Doctrine of Pride Been Forged?

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wta
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Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 How Deep Has the Doctrine of Pride Been Forged?

Pro 16:5 Everyone who is proud in heart is an abomination to the LORD; Assuredly, he will not be unpunished.
Pro 16:6 By lovingkindness and truth iniquity is atoned for, And by the fear of the LORD one keeps away from evil. NASB

Being a product of the Grecko/Roman North American doctrine I am in awe at how deep pride has been driven into our way of thought, way of life and style of church. How deep does this sin really run in us and the NA church body? How far must we be broken to be freed from this sin?
Oh what a wretched man I am who can save me from my pride? I find my freedom is deep within His Spirit of Humility and Holiness, the deeper He calls me the greater revelation I have relating to pride. I thank Jesus for the narrow gate through which Hes called me and the true love that I can experience, free from my pride and arrogance.
I would enjoy hearing of others experience relating to the battle and daily victory over the greatest of sin, pride...

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/6/14 19:49Profile









 Re: How Deep Has the Doctrine of Pride Been Forged?

This little bit here on pride and brokenness has had a great impact on me. It's one of those lists that bears oft reading...because it is so easy to fall into the trap of pride. But really one of the greatest weapons against pride is a realization of the greatness of God and His lovingkindness toward the most unworthy and undeserving of beings...mankind, us, me. In the light of that...there is very little room for pride.

"Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 [b]Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;[/b] who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds." Hebrews 12:1-3




-------

Brokenness Vs. Pride

When God has given me a broken heart I'm overwhelmed with a sense of my own spiritual need.

When I live a broken Christian life, there is a spirit of compassion about my life because I can forgive much because I know how much I have been forgiven. I always esteem others better than myself.

When I serve God with a broken heart I have a dependant spirit and I recognize my need for others.

When I serve God with a broken life, I've learned the secret of denying myself.

When my heart is broken before God, I have a motivation to serve others. I'm motivated to be faithful before God, and to make others a success.

When my heart is broken before God, I have a deep desire to promote other believers. I have a sense of my own unworthiness. And I'm so thrilled that God would use me in any kind of a ministry or any kind of a fellowship. I'm always eager for others to get the credit. And when my heart is broken, I rejoice, when others are lifted up. And I never defend myself.

When my heart is broken before God, I have a heart attitude that says "I do not deserve to be part of this fellowship. I know that I've got nothing to offer God, except the life of Christ that is flowing through my broken life."

And when I'm broken before God, I'm so humiliated by how much more I have to learn, I'm not concerned about the self-life, and I'm willing to take risks to become vulnerable, and to be close to others, and to open my life to love other people.

And when I serve God with a broken heart, I always take personal responsibility. And I can see where I have done wrong, in any kind of a situation.

And when I'm broken before God I always receive criticism, with a humble and with an open spirit. I'm not concerned, I'm concerned about being real. And what they care about and what matters to those who are broken, is not what others think, but it's what God knows about them. And I'm willing to die to my own reputation.

And when I live a broken Christian life, I'm willing to be open and transparent with others, as God will direct me. And whence I'm broken before God, I don't care who knows or who finds out about me. I am willing to be exposed because I have nothing to lose in my relationship with God.

So, when I serve God with a broken heart, I'm always quick to admit my failures, and I want to seek forgiveness, whenever it is necessary.

When I live a broken Christian life, and I'm under the conviction of God's Spirit, I'm able to acknowledge the specifics about my sin. I'm grieved over the cause of my sin, and I'm grieved over the root of my sin.

And when I'm broken before God, I truly and genuinely repent over my sin, and the evidence in the fact is that I want to forsake that sin.

When I live a broken Christian life, I want to take the initiative to be reconciled when there has been a misunderstanding, or a conflict in any kind of a relationship. I want to race to the cross, I want to see if I can get there first no matter how wrong the other person my have been.

And when I'm broken before God, I compare myself with the holiness of God. I sense the desperate need of the mercy and the grace of God. I always want to walk in the light.

And when I serve God with a broken spirit, I realize that I have a need of a consistent, cleansing of heart and repentance.

And when I'm broken before God, I continually sense my need for a fresh encounter with God the Holy Spirit.


But when there is pride in my life as a Christian, I always focus on the failures of other Christians and other fellowships.

When there is pride in my life, I've got a very self-righteous spirit. I've got a critical spirit. I have a fault finding spirit. And I look at everyone else's faults through the microscope, but I always look at my own faults through the telescope. And I always look down upon the lives of other people.

When there is pride in my life I have an independent and a self-sufficient spirit. I'm protective of my time, I try to protect my reputation and my rights as a Christian, and I focus on the deficiencies of other Christians.

When there is pride in my life I want to be served by other Christians. I've got a desire that... to be successful, I want to advance the self-life.

And when there is the sin of pride in my life, I've got this drive, I want to be appreciated, I want to be recognized, I'm offended and I'm wounded when other Christians are promoted, and I have been overlooked, because of what I have done.

When there is pride in my life, I've got this inner attitude, and this is what I said, that this fellowship is very privileged to have me and my gifts and all I think as what I can do for God.

And when there is pride in my life I'm confident, about how much I've learned of the Scriptures, and how far I have gone in my relationship with God.

And when there is pride in my life, I always keep people at a distance.

When there is pride in my life, I want to blame other people.

When there is pride in my life, I'm unapproachable.

When there is pride in my life, I'm defensive when I'm criticized by other Christians.

And when there is the sin of pride in my life, I'm so concerned to be respectable, I'm concerned about what other people think of me, and I try to protect my image and my reputation.

And when there is pride in my life I find it very difficult to share my spiritual needs.

When there is the sin of pride, I want to be sure that no one else find out that I have sinned. And I try to cover up sin. And I have this instinct to try and not to reveal it.

And when there is pride in my life I always want to make sure that no one else finds out when I have sinned, and I try to cover it up. And I find it very very difficult to say "you know, I'm wrong, will you please forgive me".

When there is pride in my life, I'm concerned about the consequences of my sin, I'm remorseful over my sin, simply because I've been caught, that I have sinned before God and sinned before man.

And when there is pride in my life, I always wait for others to come and ask for forgiveness, when there is a misunderstanding or a conflict, in my relationship with God.

When there is pride in my life I try to compare myself with other Christians, and other believers and other fellowships. And I always think that I'm better than them.

When there is pride in my life I'm blind. I become blind to my own heart condition.

When there is pride in my life I don't think that there is anything in my life that I need to repent of. I don't think that I need revival. Oh but I'm so sure that everyone else needs revival in my relationship with God.

- The preceding was transcribed from a message given by Gerhard Du Toit titled "Principles for the Anointed Prayer Life"

 2008/6/14 20:59









 Re:

Amen Joy, great article. It's all about serving and pride is self serving and man centered.

Mar 10:45 For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

 2008/6/14 21:07
death2self
Member



Joined: 2006/9/28
Posts: 192
Washington DC area

 Re: How Deep Has the Doctrine of Pride Been Forged?

Quote:
How far must we be broken to be freed from this sin?

I wish knew where the bottom was at but I know Jesus has to take us all the way to the bottom. The whole issue of pride is a way of life to most of us in the west.

We don't even see it as sin because it's seen as a virtue. He's a hard worker, he's the man. The Holy Spirit has been using these circumstances to reflect the pride in my heart.

In God's kingdom, everything is given, nothing is earned (see Matthew 6:33). I believe it's a Marine Corps bus I saw that said on the side of the bus "Nothing given, everything earned." I was told I could "have it my way" and "Jesus way" at the same time. What a lie...

I could wear a cross around my neck and not take up my cross and follow Him. I could be self-sufficient and say it was Jesus who delivered me, when I knew I delivered myself. He doesn't let me get away with that lie any more...

The curse given to Adam in Genesis 3 was broken at the cross. I'm no longer the man but Jesus is the man! The self-sufficiency and self-reliance has been a clear indicia of pride in my heart and it's literally taken years to begin to experience the conviction of the Holy Spirit on this wicked way that I was raised with and clung to my bosom...

I used to only want nice clothes and a later model car and then I could have the appearance of success. The Lord had to come against that and through a series of circumstances that I believe He orchestrated, I ended up with no car and was riding the bus to work.

It was nearly a two hour trek via a train, bus and subway to get to church and I spent a number of months waiting on God to provide me a car. A precious brother and sister gave me a car.

It costs them considerably and they sacrificed some money that the Lord had provided for their anniversary. I've never seen such joy in their hearts, it was explosive and they spent their anniversary preparing the car for me.

I broke down in tears at the kindness of the Lord. The car broke down at what used to be a great fortress of pride. A car was always an expression of sorts that I was somebody.

When the Lord provided this gift through a dear brother and sister, it cut against my flesh as well as it's a 1990 model. It clearly says to the world that I'm not the man. What a present from the Lord.

Pride has two sides, it says I'm the man or I'm nothing at all. This self-condemnation or wounded pride has been a snare to my walk with the Lord and I'm trusting Jesus to break this in my life as well. I'm trusting Jesus to orchestrate whatever circumstances are necessary for complete victory over this by his blood. As I see the pattern in scripture, He will arrqange impossible cirucumstances in that if Jesus doesn't show up, I will perish. That's a bit terrifying at times, but I've seen the Lord rescue me time and again.

Jesus knows how to humble our heart but many are sleeping. May the Holy Spirit wake us up before it's too late...

I'm not anybody special but I pray this encourages your heart to trust Jesus to break the pride...


_________________
Ed Pugh

 2008/6/14 21:13Profile









 Re: Death2self: The exorcism of the great twin headed monster!



A great preacher was said; "Ambition is the twin sister of Pride." Just as the Godly and Biblical meaning of "Love," is forever welded with "Mercies", at it's essence, so "Pride" and "Ambition" are welded into the anti-type of Satan's fruit also.


Remember the Biblical account that revealed Satan's motives as he railed against the dominion of the Father, and His Christ, to steal away His Throne. {What a fool. The Lord laughed at this flea's rebuke! He forgot that Jesus held the molecules of his being together, as he does the rest of Creation and the Universe!]


"I will become like the Lord most high!"

"I will ascend to the sides of the North![ the Throne and worship will be MINE!]


This is the nature of Pride. It is the opposite of ever giving selfless love. It is a usurper, and ultimately sets you above all. In the end, the only vestige of love you will ever find, if you embrace the withering streams of "I will"; ambition to be "OVER and ABOVE", is the putrid stench of Narcissism...a lover of self.


In the Kingdom of God, it is a reverse of Satan's world view. In here, you only get to keep, what you give away. In here, rather than the yoke of Ambition to BE Someone, and to receive honor and praise for yourself, you are commanded to put another yoke on, one of meekness and lowliness. It is the One that Jesus wore, with truth and Grace.


The nature of this love is not to take, not to demand, not to control, but to serve, and to give. I think of the parable of the Pearl of great price. "The Exchange". One gave all , to receive all. Jesus gave all for us, even life in Himself. The One, the Bride, the recipient[us, the redeemed must give all[our lives and all the world to us] to buy the Pearl; for it is a Pearl of great price, for God, and it must be so for us too. The Price? Everything....Everything!


So, the choice for us is will we buy, and of course pay? Will we choose, the oil of an ambitious and selfish life, Pride, all of it's benefits in this world, Satan's kingdom, or will we choose to pay the price for attaining Love? , and it's benefits in His Eternal Kingdom of Jesus?


In the end, if we say yes, I want you Jesus, the pearl of great price, then we begin the fiery trying of our love. The first thing we learned as babies was the praise of accomplishment, and the pride of success. We wanted and wanted, and we got. So, in these fires of the lessons of learning Love, and the extraction of profane pride and ambition, we must die to them. this is why Jesus said; "He who saves His life, SHALL lose it, but he who loses his life for my sake, will find it!


God does use circumstances, and also very direct methods in His desire to purify us, and He rejoices in us when he sees his Holy Son Jesus, smiling and Loving , directly in our faces! He loves the radience of His Son, in us.



We must despise the Pride and Ambition within all of us, and live a life of faith that rejects it, and begs that the Lord would cleanse us to the root of it. This is embracing our cross, that we must bear in order to attain Him, the Pearl of great Price! It is the "High Rent District", but that is the only place you will find the pearl markets.


Thank you Death2SELF for this intimate and most humble confession, and the hope that your revelation and grace applied has brought to me...Tom

 2008/6/15 16:56
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

Jas 4:1 Where do wars and fights come from among you? Do they not come from your desires for pleasure that war in your members?
Jas 4:2 You lust and do not have. You murder and covet and cannot obtain. You fight and war. Yet you do not have because you do not ask.
Jas 4:3 You ask and do not receive, because you ask amiss, that you may spend it on your pleasures.
Jas 4:4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

and again...

1Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.

Are the ways of the world found fundimentally in pride? Wars, fights, stivings and the like all come from self promotion and the building of one's personal kingdoms and securities. Bigger, better, faster, stronger...

Mat 6:1 "Take heed that you do not do your charitable deeds before men, to be seen by them. Otherwise you have no reward from your Father in heaven.
Mat 6:2 Therefore, when you do a charitable deed, do not sound a trumpet before you as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory from men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
Mat 6:3 But when you do a charitable deed, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing,
Mat 6:4 that your charitable deed may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will Himself reward you openly.
Mat 6:5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
Mat 6:6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Mat 6:7 And when you pray, do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words.
Mat 6:8 "Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.
Mat 6:9 In this manner, therefore, pray: Our Father in heaven, Hallowed be Your name.
Mat 6:10 Your kingdom come. Your will be done On earth as it is in heaven.
Mat 6:11 Give us this day our daily bread.
Mat 6:12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors.
Mat 6:13 And do not lead us into temptation, But deliver us from the evil one. For Yours is the kingdom and the power and the glory forever. Amen.
Mat 6:14 "For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.
Mat 6:15 But if you do not forgive men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mat 6:16 "Moreover, when you fast, do not be like the hypocrites, with a sad countenance. For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward.
Mat 6:17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face,
Mat 6:18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
Mat 6:19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal;
Mat 6:20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal.
Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.
Mat 6:22 "The lamp of the body is the eye. If therefore your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if your eye is bad, your whole body will be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in you is darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
Mat 6:25 "Therefore I say to you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or what you will drink; nor about your body, what you will put on. Is not life more than food and the body more than clothing?
Mat 6:26 Look at the birds of the air, for they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they?
Mat 6:27 Which of you by worrying can add one cubit to his stature?
Mat 6:28 "So why do you worry about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin;
Mat 6:29 and yet I say to you that even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these.
Mat 6:30 Now if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is, and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will He not much more clothe you, O you of little faith?
Mat 6:31 "Therefore do not worry, saying, 'What shall we eat?' or 'What shall we drink?' or 'What shall we wear?'
Mat 6:32 For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 But seek first the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these things shall be added to you.
Mat 6:34 Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about its own things. Sufficient for the day is its own trouble.

If we really live this way with who will we find fellowship?

Amo 3:3 Can two walk together, unless they are agreed?

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/6/15 22:52Profile
wta
Member



Joined: 2007/4/8
Posts: 68
Canadian in America (Bremerton, WA) "A stranger in a strange land..."

 Re:

King Saul comes to mind and frankly shakes me to the core of what or better said, "where" pride will take us.

1Sa 15:13 Then Samuel went to Saul, and Saul said to him, "Blessed are you of the LORD! I have performed the commandment of the LORD."
1Sa 15:14 But Samuel said, "What then is this bleating of the sheep in my ears, and the lowing of the oxen which I hear?"
1Sa 15:15 And Saul said, "They have brought them from the Amalekites; for the people spared the best of the sheep and the oxen, to sacrifice to the LORD your God; and the rest we have utterly destroyed."
1Sa 15:16 Then Samuel said to Saul, "Be quiet! And I will tell you what the LORD said to me last night." And he said to him, "Speak on."
1Sa 15:17 So Samuel said, "When you were little in your own eyes, were you not head of the tribes of Israel? And did not the LORD anoint you king over Israel?
1Sa 15:18 Now the LORD sent you on a mission, and said, 'Go, and utterly destroy the sinners, the Amalekites, and fight against them until they are consumed.'
1Sa 15:19 Why then did you not obey the voice of the LORD? Why did you swoop down on the spoil, and do evil in the sight of the LORD?"
1Sa 15:20 And Saul said to Samuel, "But I have obeyed the voice of the LORD, and gone on the mission on which the LORD sent me, and brought back Agag king of Amalek; I have utterly destroyed the Amalekites.
1Sa 15:21 But the people took of the plunder, sheep and oxen, the best of the things which should have been utterly destroyed, to sacrifice to the LORD your God in Gilgal."
1Sa 15:22 So Samuel said: "Has the LORD as great delight in burnt offerings and sacrifices, As in obeying the voice of the LORD? Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, And to heed than the fat of rams.
1Sa 15:23 For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, And stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He also has rejected you from being king."

And again...

Mat 25:32 All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.
Mat 25:33 And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mat 25:34 Then the King will say to those on His right hand, 'Come, you blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mat 25:35 for I was hungry and you gave Me food; I was thirsty and you gave Me drink; I was a stranger and you took Me in;
Mat 25:36 I was naked and you clothed Me; I was sick and you visited Me; I was in prison and you came to Me.'
Mat 25:37 "Then the righteous will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You drink?
Mat 25:38 When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You?
Mat 25:39 Or when did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
Mat 25:40 And the King will answer and say to them, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.'
Mat 25:41 "Then He will also say to those on the left hand, 'Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat 25:42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink;
Mat 25:43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.'
Mat 25:44 "Then they also will answer Him, saying, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?'
Mat 25:45 Then He will answer them, saying, 'Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.'
Mat 25:46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

Mat 7:21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
Mat 7:23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Mat 7:24 "Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock:
Mat 7:25 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock.
Mat 7:26 "But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand:
Mat 7:27 and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall."
Mat 7:28 And so it was, when Jesus had ended these sayings, that the people were astonished at His teaching,
Mat 7:29 for He taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.

For the sake of our souls and the name of the Lord we must find the essence of humility...

All for souls,

wta


_________________
William Thomas Anderson

 2008/6/18 0:21Profile





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