SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Sinless Perfection

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 Next Page )
PosterThread
moreofHim
Member



Joined: 2003/10/15
Posts: 1632


 Re: sinless perfection

I think Jeppe made it wonderfully clear. I am sorry to see so many confused about this subject. I know as I've matured and grown- the more I have seen myself as a 'sinner'. I once thought I could almost be sinless. I once thought if I didn't purposely 'sin' in a day that I was not sinning. I was wrong. Just because I don't know it or don't plan it does not mean it isn't sin in God's eyes. It took a while for God to show me this and I am so glad He did because now I know how much I still need to grow and how much I need to depend on Jesus!

The gospel is the best news in my entire life!- especially now that I know i am not only a saint but a sinner as well. When I thought I could live on purpose without sin- I had no idea how much pride I had. I thought I was serving God better than so many others. I thought I was above others spiritually because I could purposely walk without a hint of sin while others just didn't care if they were sinning or not.

I was wrong. I was sinning all along and was blinded by my pride. I was unloving and judgemental. I was critical. I was thinking i was better than others. I was angry that others could not walk as I walked- ha ha- what a joke.
I am so remorseful about the way I might have treated others (in my family especially). Yes, I didn't know it at the time, I was unaware I was sinning- but in God's eyes my sin was there and it still stunk! I am so thankful that His blood covers my sin. I am so thaankful that I am not in denial about my sin anymore.

Made God open our eyes to see this from His perspective.

In His love, Chanin


_________________
Chanin

 2008/6/11 21:58Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

[b][size=large]No one has yet answered my as to why they can't stop sinning?
And if they can't, why would that be a sin??[/size][/b]

 2008/6/11 22:23Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Christinyou wrote:
Quote:
Christ birthed in you", "The matter of who's faith, not a matter of who it's on", "dark faith"...ect...
It may not be "new-age", but it certainly ain't christian.

Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Galatians 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.


This was one of my points in my last post to you.
You qoute all these Scriptures with no relivance to what the matter is.

I know what these Sriptures say and mean, but they don't explain anything about how your theology not being christian.
Your not proving anything.

Quote:
Logic are you saying the the Faith of the Son of God is dark Faith?

There is no such thing as dark faith.

The Bible has nothing about it.
Quote:
If I live by the faith of the Son of God there is only One the Faith can be upon.

You base your whole theology upon prepositions that aren't even in the original Greek, but put in by archaic English, bias of the translator, or by just plain mis-understanding.

You will never yeild to the truth that it ain't about who's faith, but it only matters Who the faith is in.

Your theology is not Christian.

Quote:
Quote:
What's the physical change?

2 Corinthians 4:7-11 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body. For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.


Nothing about a physical change in ones body just because they're saved here.

Quote:
Quote:
This is one of your wacko theologies.
The Seed is Christ HimSelf, not His Spirit. (Gal 3:16)
Furthermore, No where in the Scriptures is Christ birthed in anyone.

1 Peter 1:19-24 But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently: Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever. For all flesh is as grass, and all the glory of man as the flower of grass. The grass withereth, and the flower thereof falleth away:


This ain'tthe Holy Spirit being the seed as you say, it is [b]us[/b] being "birthed" into that Seed which is Jesus.

Quote:
Do you believe in the virgin birth?

Yes, it is only to show that Jesus is not created.

Why don't you go to a good bible college and learn real christian theology?
Maybe not, you wouldn't listen anyway.

 2008/6/11 22:45Profile
Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— NIV

Romans 5:12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- (NASB)

Romans 5:12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- ESV

I hope this clarifys that if we happen to be "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1 ESV) it's b/c through one MAN; Adam; sin entered into the world. So Christ was born not from a seed of Adam. My future children...born of my seed...You...born of sinful seed...Jesus came in the "likeness" of man, but not born of sinful seed. (Also I believe Jesus was fully human so do not twist my words)
So the fact that you were born in the likeness of God, but DEAD DEAD DEAD in your trespasses and sin meand you and Christ are significantly different.


Also
"No one has yet answered my as to why they can't stop sinning?
And if they can't, why would that be a sin??" -Logic

It's hard to move on to your request until we can establish the basics ...You...were...born...dead...in...your...trespasses...and sins...Jesus...was...not...(Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)point of reference in case you forgot)...so...you...are...different...than...Jesus.

Also when man was created he was made to be in a personal intimate relationship of God. Able to converse and respond to his voice. Able to walk and know God. The reason why I say your frequent errors are sin is b/c screwing up a notion on God's will is a side effect of the fall/sin (By the way the fall means that we are born dead in sin...Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)...point of reference)


_________________
Thom

 2008/6/11 22:55Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
"No one has yet answered my as to why they can't stop sinning? And if they can't, why would that be a sin??"



The second question seems unhelpful to me because it is framed not from scripture but from fallible logic. (No pun intended.)

There are plenty of examples in life of not being able to do the right thing even though you know what it is.

A man stumbles in business and is unable to pay back his debt. He knows full well the scriptures position on debt, and also believes God wants him to have the power to do the right thing...but alas he can't. The bible says he who borrows and does not repay is wicked. The bible does not say he who borrows and sincerely hopes he could repay is not wicked because of his sincerity. Thus he wakes up each morning knowing he is wicked because at best he can only inadequately service his debt. Though he loves the Lord, he essentially is wicked according to scripture without the power to be otherwise.

Now of course refuting this example is possible, if you define sin as intention to sin, and not haplessness. However, this nuanced dodging one another is not helpful to the person who is grieving over their failings. They will not be relieved to know that what they can not help they are not responsbile for. They still feel broken hearted in the way they have failed their Lord. Even with love at work in their hearts, they still discover corruption in their character that they were insensitive to before, but is now apparent to them, driving them once again to their knees to find rest in Christ.

As many put it here, within the desciple of Christ, submission can be perfect, and love can be completed. Still we know God is truly holy, not just in perfect intention but in every way it is possible to be holy. We on the other hand, even with perfect obedience, and love governing in us, still have no hope of having peace with our holy God without the cross of Christ and his imputed righteousness. To differ on this basic belief of what God's holiness demands, and what sin really is, makes any agreement in this conversation of 'perfection' difficult to achieve. There may yet still be a productive discussion helping one another to understand what it means to share in not only the death of Christ, but also his life...but the belief that we can be as holy in ourselves as God is in himself holy, without any imputation seems to me to be a kind of pelagianism---which hardly requires scripture to refute. Mere common modesty will do.

Now this conversation is admittedly frustrating for me. By participating in it, people who hate sin, take the risk that they will be misunderstood as having made peace with their own sin, and people who love the Lord, take the risk that they care only about being justified in their sin.

But then again, maybe I am misunderstanding you Logic.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/6/12 0:48Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Thommy2 wrote:
Romans 5:12Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned

I hope this clarifys that if we happen to be "And you were dead in the trespasses and sins" (Ephesians 2:1 ESV) it's b/c through one MAN; Adam; sin entered into the world. So Christ was born not from a seed of Adam. My future children...born of my seed...You...born of sinful seed...Jesus came in the "likeness" of man, but not born of sinful seed.

Was david or abraham born of the seed of Adam which you call "sinful"?
That is who Jesus is the seed of.
Was Seth of the same seed as Cain?

Surely, there is a diference between the seed of Seth & the seed of Cain.

Genesis 5:3 And Adam...
...begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:

It does not say that Adam begat sons and daughters in verse 4 after his image.
This is because the author wanted to make a distinction from seth in verse 3 and the others in verse 4.

What is the distinction?
Adam repented and his relationship was restore with God, he is now righteous. Cain was not in Adam's image & likeness because he did not repent. The lineage of cain is unrighteous: the lineage of Seth is righteous.
The lineage of Seth brough Noah & he was righteous.

It does not even say that Cain was "after his image".

If it is as some imply that Adam's image is now sinful in contrast to that of when God made Adam & Eve in His image & After His likeness; Then it would surely say that Adam begat Cain "after his image"; and it wouldn’t make a distinction between Seth in verse 3 and the others in verse 4.
However, it only says that seth & him only is "after his image".

In conclusion
There is no such thing as "sinful seed"
There is no reference of "sinful seed"
Romans 5:12 Does not prove anything to what you imply.
You are infeing something that can not be proven.
Adam was never said to be "sinful seed".

There is a Seed of David & Abraham which is Christ, but there is not reference to "sinful seed" in contrast to those, do not add to God's word!!!

Quote:
(Also I believe Jesus was fully human so do not twist my words)

All what "DEAD DEAD DEAD in your trespasses and sin means" is that there is no relationship with God through Christ.

Death in the Bible is always pictured as a separation between two things.
Physical death, spirit for body - Eccl 12:7 then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
James 2:26 as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Spiritual death, spirit from God - Isa 59:1-2 But your iniquities have separated you between and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Romans 6:23 the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Since the Gift is eternal(spiritual) life, the death from the wages of sin is spiritual death.
John 17:3 Now this is eternal life: that they shall be knowing You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You sent.
Eternal(spiritual) life is knowing Christ, a relationship with God.

Therefore, it don't matter if I was "DEAD DEAD DEAD in my trespasses and sin"
Because it wad my own fault from my own willful, intentional sin, not Adam's, not because I was born from Mom & Dad.

Quote:
Also
"No one has yet answered my as to why they can't stop sinning?
And if they can't, why would that be a sin??" -Logic

It's hard to move on to your request until we can establish the basics.

True basics, not your erroneous theologies/doctrines.

Quote:
...You...were...born...dead...in...your...trespasses...and sins...Jesus...was...not...(Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)point of reference in case youforgot)

You can not prove from Scripture without twisting it or by taking things out of context that anyone wa or is ".born...dead...in...your...trespasses".

Romans 5:12 has no relivence to this whatsoever.

Quote:
...so...you...are...different...than...Jesus.
Also when man was created he was made to be in a personal intimate relationship of God. Able to converse and respond to his voice. Able to walk and know God.

Mankind was always created to be in a personal intimate relationship of God, that fact never ceased.
Even though we sinned does not nulify what we were created to do & be.

Quote:
The reason why I say your frequent errors are sin is b/c screwing up a notion on God's will is a side effect of the fall/sin (By the way the fall means that we are born dead in sin

No, the fall means we fell from innocence when we continued to sin as you came to accountability as you matured from an infant.
Adam's fall had nothing to do with the rest of mankinds spiritual death. It is from there own sin that separated them from God.

Quote:
...Romans 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: (KJV)...point of reference

Therefore, even as through one man, sin entered into the world. Furthermore, death entered through sin,
In this manner or to this degree or extent, death passed through into all mankind, on which all (mankind) have sinned.

The "Therefore" is stating that the rest of what Paul says will explain the argument made in Rom 5:1-11 about our justification.
Rom. 5:12 is a peace of an explaination which must not be taken as one verse out of context.
Rom. 5:12 means nothing without the whole thought behind it.

Maybe your frequent errors are sin is b/c you are screwing up on the whole Christan theology.

 2008/6/12 11:55Profile
Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

What denomination do you affiliate yourself with? Also you mock my brothers and sisters on here a lot telling them to go to Bible college...where did you go? One reason why I ask is this doctrince you proclaim has been rejected by the church (not just protestants) since 529a.d....I mean the whole of orthodox christendom would say you are a heretic.
(this whole post was done in a passive, inquisitive voice so please do not twist my words)


_________________
Thom

 2008/6/12 12:41Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Thommy2 wrote:
What denomination do you affiliate yourself with?

I am a non-denominational Christian, Semi-Pelagian, Molinist.

I am not opposed to denominations as such, only to their over-emphasis of the doctrinal differences that have led to the division of the Body of Christ.
I believe that Jesus Christ is fully God and fully human, that He was born of a virgin, and was in the form of sinful flesh, lived a sinless life, provided for the atonement of our sins by His substitutionary death on the cross, was bodily raised from the dead, ascended back to the right hand of the Father, and ever lives to make intercession for us.

My supreme desire is to know Christ and be conformed to His image by the power of the Holy Spirit.

I believe that people are not born with a "sin nature" but, recieved the "original death" from Adam and therefore we are in weakness of the flesh, natural, earthy, and have a living soul(Corinth 15:42-45) that needs to be spiritualy united with Christ.

From our first accountable sin we became spiritualy separated from God and responsible for our own sin, but that salvation, redemption, and forgiveness are freely offered to all by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ.

When a person repents of sin and accepts Jesus Christ sacrifice on His cross and acknowlage His resurection, trusting Him to save, that person is immediately born again and sealed by the Holy Spirit, all his/her sins are forgiven, and that person becomes a child of God through adoption, destined to spend eternity with the Lord.

Quote:
One reason why I ask is this doctrince you proclaim has been rejected by the church (not just protestants) since 529a.d....I mean the whole of orthodox christendom would say you are a heretic.

That is because of a great thorn in the churches side called St. Augustine of Hippo(354-430 A.D.).
He brought in a whole lot of bad theology/doctrines that flood the Church today(Mat 13:33).

Ever wonder why it wasn't rejected before that?


Is sin is all willful and intentional, then why can't you stop sinning?
Furthermore, since all sin willful and intentional, If you can't you stop sinninghow would that which can't be stopped be a sin?

Pleas answer this.
Quote:
I mean the whole of orthodox christendom would say you are a heretic.

Not a whole, but only a part.

Some would say that St. Augustine was a heretic.

 2008/6/12 13:41Profile
LiveforGod
Member



Joined: 2007/4/17
Posts: 299


 Re:

Hello My dear Friends. I have read some of the responses given and I see that there are quite some different opinions here, as usual with this subject. May I just say that God still has the last word. We may agree with God or not, but still he has the last word. I hope we all know that by now. So I just propose to let God's word settle this Subject, and may we all listen to what scripture has to say.

1) The purpose of Jesus’ coming was to redeem us from all iniquity



Matt. 1:21 “And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.”

Luke 1:68-75 “Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people...that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.”

Titus 2:14 “Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.”

1 John 3:8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.”





2) Those who have been saved from their sins need not continue to sin and repent



Luke 15:7 “I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.”

John 5:14 “Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee.”

Rom. 6:1-2 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid.”





3) A child of God is able to overcome temptation



1 Cor. 10:13 “There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”

2 Pet. 2:9 “The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations.”





4) After being cleansed by the blood of Jesus, it is possible to stay clean



Rom. 6:6-7 “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Gal. 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

Col. 1:22 “In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight.”

James. 1:27 “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

1 John 5:18 “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.”

Jude 24 “Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy.”





5) Grace does not cover over sin, but gives power to overcome sin



Rom. 6:1-2 “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

Rom. 6:15 “What then? Shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.”

Titus 2:11-12 “For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world.”

Jude 4 “For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness.”



6) Whoever sins is the servant of sin, not the servant of God



John 8:34, 36 “Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”

Rom. 6:16-22 “Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but...Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness...for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness...the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”





7) Those who sin are spiritually dead



Rom. 6:13 “But yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead.”

Rom. 7:5 “For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins...did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.”

Rom. 8:6 “For to be carnally minded is death.”

Eph. 2:1 “And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins.”

Col. 2:13 “And you, being dead in your sins...”

1 Tim. 5:6 “But she that liveth in pleasure is dead while she liveth.”





8) True Christians are dead to sin



Rom. 6:2 “How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?”

Rom. 6:6-7 “Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. For he that is dead is freed from sin.”

Rom. 6:11 “Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

Gal. 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”





9) The wrath of God abides on those who sin



Rom. 1:18 “For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness.”

Rom. 2:8-9 “But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath, Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil.”

Col. 3:5-6 “Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry: For which things’ sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience.”

Eph. 2:2-3 “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.”

Heb. 10:26-27 “For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation.”







10) Those that profess to be saved but do not live holy will be surprised at the Judgment



Matt. 7:22-23 “Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”





11) Those who sin have no part of the kingdom of God



Rom. 14:17 “For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.”

1 Cor. 6:9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God?”

Gal. 5:21 “Of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things [the works of the flesh] shall not inherit the kingdom of God.”

Eph. 5:5 “For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.”





12) Those that turn back to sin lose their salvation



Ezk. 33:12-13 “The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression...neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth...if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.”

Gal. 2:17-18 “But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.”

2 Pet. 2:20-22 “For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning...The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.”





13) Those who sin cannot see nor know God



Matt. 5:8 “Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.”

Matt. 7:23 “And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.”

Heb. 12:14 “Holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.”

1 John 1:6 “If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth.”

1 John 2:4 “He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”

1 Jn 3:6 “Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.”

3 John 11 “He that doeth evil hath not seen God.”





14) Whoever loves the world does not belong to God



Eph. 2:2-3 “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world...fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath.”

James 1:27 “Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.”

James 4:4 “Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? Whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.”

1 John 2:15-16 “Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.”





15) God does not hear sinners



Psa. 66:18 “If I regard iniquity in my heart, the Lord will not hear me.”

Isa. 1:15-16 “And when you spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood. Wash you, make you clean; put away the evil of your doings from before mine eyes; cease to do evil.”

Isa. 59:2 “But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”

John 9:31 “Now we know that God heareth not sinners: but if any man be a worshipper of God, and doeth his will, him he heareth.”

1 Pet. 3:10-12 “For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile: Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.”





16) Christians are not to fellowship those who profess salvation but continue to sin



1 Cor. 5:11 “But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.”

2 Thess. 3:6 “Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.”

Eph. 5:11 “And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.”

1 Tim. 5:20 “Them that sin rebuke before all.”

2 Tim. 3:2-5 “For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud...unholy...lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.”

2 John 9-10 “Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God...If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed.”





17) Christians are to walk in the Spirit, not in the lust of the flesh



Rom. 8:1 “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”

Rom. 8:13 “For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”

Gal. 5:16 “This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh.”

Gal. 5:24 “And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.”

1 Pet. 2:11 “Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul.”

2 Pet. 1:4 “Having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.”





18) By God’s power, Christians keep themselves undefiled



2 Cor. 7:1 “Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.”

1 Thess. 5:22 “Abstain from all appearance of evil.”

2 Pet. 3:11 “Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness.”

2 Pet. 3:14 “Be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.”

1 John 3:3 “And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.”

1 John 5:18 “We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not.”



19) Whoever commits sin is of the devil



Jn. 8:41-44 “Ye do the deeds of your father...Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.”

Eph. 2:2 “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air.”

1 John 3:8 “He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.”

1 John 3:10 “In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.”





20) Christians follow the example of Christ



1 Pet. 1:15-16 “But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation; Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.”

1 Pet. 2:21-22 “Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth.”

1 John 2:6 “He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”





21) A holy life does not produce sinful fruit



Matt. 7:17-18 “Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

Luke 6:43 “For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

Heb. 6:8 “But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing, whose end is to be burned.”





22) Christians have an undefiled conscience



Acts 23:1 “And Paul, earnestly beholding the council, said, Men and brethren, I have lived in all good conscience before God until this day.”

Acts 24:16 “And herein do I exercise myself, to have always a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward men.”

1 Tim. 1:5 “Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned.”





23) It is not what we profess, but what we live that counts



Matt. 7:20 “Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.”

Luke 6:46 “And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?”

2 Tim. 3:5 “Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof.”

Titus 1:16 “They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him.”





24) Those who sin cannot enter heaven



John 8:21 “Then said Jesus again unto them, I go my way, and ye shall seek me, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.”

Rev. 21:27 “And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie.”





25) The foundation of God is to depart from all iniquity



2 Tim. 2:19 “Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”





26) A Christian is a new creature; old sinful ways are passed away



Ezk. 36:26-27 “A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes, and ye shall keep my judgments, and do them.”

2 Cor. 5:17 “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.”





27) Salvation brings a heart perfection that was unattainable under the Old Testament



Matt. 5:48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

Heb. 7:19 “For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did.”

Heb. 10:14 “For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.”





28) Those who love God keep His commandments



John 14:15 “If ye love me, keep my commandments.”

John 14:21 “He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me.”

1 John 2:3-4 “And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.”





29) God does not give commandments that are impossible to obey



Matt. 5:48 “Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.”

John 8:11 “And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.”

1 Cor. 15:34 “Awake to righteousness, and sin not.”

1 John 2:1 “My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not.”

1 John 5:3 “For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.”


_________________
Samuel

 2008/6/12 14:19Profile
Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

"That is because of a great thorn in the churches side called St. Augustine of Hippo(354-430 A.D.).
He brought in a whole lot of bad theology/doctrines that flood the Church today(Mat 13:33).

Ever wonder why it wasn't rejected before that?" - Logic
Not really. Inerrancy was not a major issue up until the 1800's and more intensly the late 1900's. Also just because we do not see it written down doesn't mean it wasn't discussed either.

"Some would say that St. Augustine was a heretic" - Logic
Hey the guy was a heck of a theologian...messed up? Yeah, his doctrine on the church...wowza! But I wouldn't throw everything he says away...kind of like C.S. Lewis. Some of his stuff brilliant...others...wowza!

"Is sin is all willful and intentional, then why can't you stop sinning?
Furthermore, since all sin willful and intentional, If you can't you stop sinninghow would that which can't be stopped be a sin?"

I think the answer to this is simply the holiness of God. Christ frees us from the bonds of sin. Quickens us to know we were dead and unaware of sin, and now gives us a distaste to sin. HE presents holy and blameless to the father! so I am not denying that we are more than conquers in Christ Jesus. But sinless perfection is impossible b/c we can not grasp the holiness of God. Isaiah was a pretty holy dude. He was also holy despite his title/office, and the wickedness that surrounded him. Yet, when he saw the LORD (veiled b/c NO man can see God and live) he called a curse down upon himself b/c of his sinfulness. The reason why we will never be perfectly sinless on this earth (Although if somenoe is not progressing in holiness their is obviously somehting wrong) is b/c the separation we still have from the Father. We do have the ability to say no to sin for a proper reason (not just I'm to tired to sin) now that we have been quickened, but we will not be perfect here. To be perfect every move we made would need to be done with a perfect motive, while perfectly knowing the will of God (not just his general revealed will, but His perfect will for your life) and worshipping Him in the way way He is worthy to be worshipped (if not it's idolatry). The Fall damaged us in a way we will not comprehend until we join the saints in glory and finally stand perfect before our LORD.

So that's why the whole perfection thing is an impossible thing.


_________________
Thom

 2008/6/12 14:51Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy