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Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

Thanks again for posting.

Just a backround.
I am 23 white, live in Milwaukee, love hymns and opera, more than rap, and for future reference I am a pretty laid back guy. If it sounds like I am getting angry or upset there's a really good chance I am not (unless you are coming up against the diety of Christ...then I'm mad).
It has been awesome to read all of the posts (or cut a paste the really really long ones to give them a shot when I have time). I still see this debate as a matter of opinion and a "pet doctrine" issue rather than a true Biblical issue. Well have a great day and be blessed!


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Thom

 2008/6/10 9:48Profile
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
I still see this debate as a matter of opinion and a "pet doctrine" issue rather than a true Biblical issue.



While this may or may not be the case, if this is all you take away from this discussion, it hasn't been very fruitful.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/6/10 13:34Profile
henmar
Member



Joined: 2008/12/3
Posts: 1


 Re:

Hello,

Just a few thoughts of our own.

Romans tells us to not be conformed to this world and that includes its many sub-cultures such as "hip-hop" does it not? These are some questions that we have:

Is any genre of music sanctified because the words are theologically sound?

What about the identification with and the acceptance level placed on the whole genre culture?

The whole culture of heavy metal, hip-hop or country western always carries things with it that are not to be found in the life of the sanctified, the "set apart" unto God,such as the "style" of our outward appearance, the slang and jargon that seems like we are still living in the "old life". Is it not true, that by keeping so many of the elements of the culture that we are saved in, we fail to see the birthplace and origin of that culture, namely the heart of satan or the god of this world?

While we believe that people can be saved in the midst of any style or culture, does that mean that we conclude that the genre, or cultural influence is neatral itself, or if we add Jesus to it that it is sanctified?

Where do we learn how to dress from? The fallen cultures around us?

Why do we want to look like a culture that has such negative and sinful messages flowing out of it? Who taught the fallen culture to dress, what cars to drive, how to talk?

Christians who want to pattern many of their "tatses" after their old idols, will admit that they simply like the style of music, the dress and the outward of it all, but not the words. Why do we like the rest though? Where are we looking for acceptance in this world? From the world?

Are we hoping to create a "new world", within a "fallen world", that follows that fashions of the fallen world, so that we can have Jesus in our life and still make provision for, and fulfill the lusts of our flesh, wherein dwells no good thing?

How much of what we are doing in the name of, "Jesus saved me and tells no one to judge me or others" is an excue so that we can fulfill the secret desires of our flesh?

These are some of our honest questions.

 2008/12/3 9:21Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Why do we want to look like a culture that has such negative and sinful messages flowing out of it? Who taught the fallen culture to dress, what cars to drive, how to talk?



I agree... so why would Christians want to wear a suit and tie and look like all the corruption on Wall Street, Washington DC and corporate America?

Krispy

 2008/12/3 9:59
narrowpath
Member



Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1058
Germany NRW

 Re:

You can argue about taste and style, but I think we have to look at what is inherent to any type of Music, Art, Outfit, Entertainment. We would like to have rules, but it is far better to listen to your conscience and the Holy Spirit.
Some things are ok for most Christians, to others it is unclean.

We should not ask how much do I get away which before I sin but rather what pleases God.


Philippians 4:8
Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.

2 Timothy 2:22
Flee the evil desires of youth, and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the Lord out of a pure heart.

 2008/12/3 13:43Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Why do we want to look like a culture that has such negative and sinful messages flowing out of it? Who taught the fallen culture to dress, what cars to drive, how to talk?



I agree... so why would Christians want to wear a suit and tie and look like all the corruption on Wall Street, Washington DC and corporate America?

Krispy




I think a suit and tie generally is looked upon maybe as "decent" and good to wear? I meen for example if you are going to meet the president of America you would like to dress in a way that dont offend and in a way that is appropriate for the occasion.

It is true one can look appropriate and modest and nice and yet be full of corruption in the inside. It is hypocrisy and false. God will deal with that.

But i would like to suggest tho, that the above danger we all know of, probably have experienced in some way, but i would like to say that it is utterly imposible to be wordly and with the fashions of the world and be Holy on the inside. How can we be corrupt on the outside and holy on the inside?

So we have booth these things, one can look Holy, and be a devil. But I dont think we can look like the world and sound like the world and talk like the world, and yet be holy inside. it is impossible.

I think God is dealing with his children cleansing out one by one in us, music , culture, country, in all these are fleshly lust and pride in other things then Christ. And it is sin and we detest it to little.

As with music styles and clothes, there are soft nice melodies that are diabolic in lyrics, and i have heard rap music with very excellent lyrics.

But I do not think we should take the tune of babyloon and mix it with the song of Sion as Fanny Crossby said.

Another thing with rap among others,, is the baseline and heave beat, it is interesting that when offering to molok it was to the sounds of drums, probably to drain out the children screaming in the fire and to work up some emotion of flesh pleasing in the ones who sacrificed their child.

The think with rap for me is it very much appeals
to my flesh, it "gets me going" so to say. But i think this is one of those issues we have to come to realization for ourselves.

I feel a bad chill down my spine when hearing some music labeled christian. I think we should keep our worship music clean and undefiled.

I Think rap is very applauded and esteemed by the wicked of the most wicked people on earth. That for one should make us depart from it.

as someone said the "set apart" for God should be our motivation in all things, even if it means no music at all. Music is good and can be used for the worship of our God and our praises to Him.

For myself I find music as sung by [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/viewcat.php?cid=631]brother Jeff[/url] is as close we will come to heavenly worship as we sojourn through this life.

God bless you all


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CHRISTIAN

 2008/12/3 14:12Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
I have a question for you: is there a possibility the Holy Spirit is working to teach you something in this area of music but you want to get others' opinions on it first before you make a decision?



That is a good one. I have seen that happen a lot in my own life, as well as others'. May we all regard God before man. I guess the question that comes to my mind for my own life is, "Where is the one who will follow the Lord, only the Lord, wholeheartedly"?

 2008/12/4 7:57Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:

What if God HATES organs and pianos????

I think He does hate it. Here's why: I have the Spirit of God living inside of me, I have the mind of Christ, and I am a new creature... and I still hate organ music. Therefore I conclude that God hates organ music.

(tongue planted firmly in cheek!)

Krispy



We would agree that this is a tongue-in-cheek point, but there is actually some truth here. What I see behind the scenes is that God is not as usually polarized, as uncompromisingly for or against something, as we can tend to be. Doesn't matter whether it is against all instruments or pianos are the only way. Substitute your favorite issue, we can become so convinced our way is God's way. Not so, usually.

This is not to say there are not unholy things, music and otherwise. Of course there are. We just need to be careful to only make issues out of what God makes issues out of.

 2008/12/4 8:02Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Quote:
Quote:

Why do we want to look like a culture that has such negative and sinful messages flowing out of it? Who taught the fallen culture to dress, what cars to drive, how to talk?

I agree... so why would Christians want to wear a suit and tie and look like all the corruption on Wall Street, Washington DC and corporate America?

Krispy



It's a good point in itself, however I would never condemn any man of God who wears a suit and tie. While a suit and tie may be really unnecessary, I think God wants to get rid of a lot more worldliness in the church first.

 2008/12/4 8:05Profile
rbanks
Member



Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

I believe that when in pursuit of God, we need to be well pleasing in proving his good, acceptable, and perfect will. We don't need to let others or things distract us from our passion to please God.

For instance, We will give ourselves to the Lord and not be conformed to this world. We are to abstain from anything that is used from the lifestyle of the ungodly or that would have a tendency to lead to ungodliness.

On the other hand we are not to let others rob us of our virtue in the Lord in something that is common decency.

For instance, the disciples in the bible were also called christians but yet there are some people who are called christians that do ungodly things. This has caused some believers to not want to be called christian. I refuse to let this distract me from a word that is biblical and ok to be called. Also there are people who have always dressed nice with a suit and a tie on special occasions. I don't really think any of us would agree that the suit and tie has caused anybody to be corrupt. I think there are some things that are neutral and we can't just label others because of what they wear as long as they are not provocative.

(Ps.There was also a time when you could call a person gay and would be meaning that they were happy. I think the original meaning of that word has been ruined.)

 2008/12/4 8:46Profile





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