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Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

Quote:
We circle believers with an americanized moral ideology and stamp the name of the Lord on it to give it authority.



I thought rap and hip hop already is an expression of an americanized moral ideology. 8-)

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/6/9 16:48Profile
Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

:oops: :-P Compton...that made me chuckle quite a bit


_________________
Thom

 2008/6/9 17:01Profile









 Re:

Hi all,

I've been following this conversation and have decided to share an article on [url=http://www.reformationsa.org/articles/reforming_music.htm]reforming music[/url] from [url=http://www.frontline.org.za/]Peter Hammond[/url].

On the side, I think an understanding of music theory is needed in regards to rap music. This is more than preference, cultural or just style. It's more about what is 'good' music and what is 'bad' music. What are the essential parts of good music?

Just type in 'the effects of rock music on rats' in a google search and start reading. There has been scientific research done on music and the effects it has on the mind. [url=http://www.cerebromente.org.br/n15/mente/musica.html [/url] Check out some of the experiments in this article[/url]. Mike B brought up some excellent points on the manipulation of music. There is good manipulation and bad manipulation. Harp music or Handel's water music has a very soothing effect on the mind. Consider king Saul and how David's harp playing brought relief. In the same way, a strong rock beat will have negative affect on the body of the listener, whether it's fully realized or not.

So, with rap music, the question must be asked...is rap music good for us to listen to? Our bodies are the temple of the Holy Spirit, we are not our own, we're bought with a price. These things must be considered in light of this discussion.

Well...I was only going to post the article but I guess I did have some things to say. This is a multi-faceted discussion, and I'm only bringing another facet of it.

I hope this will be of some help for you, Thommy, and that you keep seeking the Lord on this. One more thought... we really do condition ourselves to what we listen to. I listen to music that has the melody first, harmony second, and rhythm last, i.e., classical, hymns, etc. And so when I hear rap, it totally turns me off because all I hear is annoying racket, with someone talking [edit](Forgive my bluntness...I hope that doesn't offend anyone...but that is really just the way I feel about it)[end edit]. It doesn't sound melodious or harmonic. We all make choices, consciously or unconsciously, what we condition ourselves for, and that is where we need to have knowledge and understanding as to what is good and what is bad. And I think that is what you're seeking after here, brother.

Btw, welcome to SI! And congratulations on your upcoming wedding. May the blessing of Jesus Christ be with you and your fiance during this time!

~Joy :-)


-------------

REFORMING MUSIC
by Peter Hammond

“Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.” Colossians 3:16

Frequently one hears the refrain: “The Bible doesn’t give any guidelines for music. It’s all a matter of taste and preference.” However, the Bible speaks to all areas of life, and music is no exception.

“Therefore do not be unwise, but understand what the will of the Lord is. And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit, speaking to one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord, giving thanks always for all things to God the Father in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, submitting to one another in the fear of God.” Ephesians 5:17-21

Music is to be melodious. We are to sing as unto the Lord. It is to be wholehearted. The content is to be Scriptural, with the Psalms predominating. It is to be in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ, and thanksgiving for all things to God the Father in the Name of our Lord Jesus Christ is to characterise it.

“The Lord is my strength and my shield; my heart trusted in Him, and I am helped; therefore my heart greatly rejoices, and with my song I will praise Him.” Psalm 28:7

“Rejoice in the Lord, O you righteous! For praise from the upright is beautiful. Praise the Lord with the harp; make melody to Him with an instrument of ten strings. Sing to Him a new song; play skillfully with a shout of joy.” Psalm 33:1-3

Worship is the natural response of a Christian. When we are saved, God puts a new song in our heart, and we cannot help but rejoice and praise the Lord, with melody, with instruments, skillfully, and with a shout of joy.

“I will praise you, O Lord, with my whole heart; I will tell of all Your marvellous works. I will be glad and rejoice in You; I will sing praise to Your Name, O Most High.” Psalm 9:1-2

Music is to be the overflow of a regenerate heart, it must be wholehearted, it must focus on the marvellous works of our great God and Saviour, and it should be characterised by rejoicing.

“Be exalted, O Lord, in Your own strength! We will sing and praise Your power.” Psalm 21:13

“I waited patiently for the Lord; and He inclined to me and heard my cry. He also brought me up out of a horrible pit, out of the mud and clay, and set my feet upon a rock, and established my steps. He has put a new song on my mouth praise to our God; many will see it and fear and will trust in the Lord.” Psalm 40:1-3

And the Lord is to be praised even in the worst of circumstances. Paul and Silas, even after having been seized and attacked by a mob, and beaten with rods, unjustly thrown into prison, their response was to sing praises to God. “But at midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God and the prisoners were listening to them.” Acts 16:25

“I will sing a new song to You, O God; on a harp of ten strings I will sing praises to you.” Psalm 144:9

“I will sing with the Spirit, and I will also sing with the understanding.” 1 Cor. 14:15

“Make a joyful shout to God, all the earth! Sing out the honour of His Name; make His praise glorious. Say to God, ’how awesome are Your works! Through the greatness of Your power Your enemies shall submit themselves to You. All the earth shall worship You and sing praises to You; they shall sing praises to Your Name.’” Psalm 66:1-4

EVALUATING OUR MUSIC

In the light of these clear Scriptural principles, how does our music measure up? Does the praise and worship in our congregation meet the Scriptural standards? And what about the music we listen to in our home, or while travelling?

“WE SOLD OUR SOUL FOR ROCK ’N ROLL”

Far from praising and honouring our Lord Jesus Christ, many of the popular secular bands openly blaspheme Christ, exalt the breaking of every one of the Ten Commandments, and some, such as Black Sabbath, openly proclaim their allegiance to Satan. One of the albums of Black Sabbath is entitled: “We Sold Our Soul for Rock ’n Roll”. One of the lyrics in their song Nativity In Black is a love song from Satan: “Some people say my love cannot be true, please believe me, my love, and I’ll show you, I will give you those things you thought unreal…your love for me has just got to be real…look into my eyes, you’ll see who I am, my name is Lucifer, please take my hand!”

ANTICHRIST ARTISTS

Kurt Cobain has been reported to have decorated his home with blood spattered baby dolls hanging by their necks. The inside of his band, Nirvana’s, album, In Utero has pictures of chopped up babies. Cobain has been reported to have spray painted “abort Christ” and “God is gay” around his neighbourhood.

Jefferson Aeroplane produced a most blasphemous song “The Son of Jesus” which spews out their hate of the Lord Jesus by claiming He was involved in the occult, had illegitimate children by Mary Magdalene, and that God the Father was sexually attracted to Jesus’ daughter! These are just a few examples of the many multiplied thousands of blasphemous, anti-Christ elements pervasive in secular Rock, Hip Hop and Rap.

COPYING THE WORLD

But what about contemporary Christian music? Incredibly, many contemporary music performers sing songs from these very secular artists, and adopt and adapt songs from them. Many even copy the world’s looks and lifestyles.

“WE HAVE CREATED A MONSTER”

Stan Moser, former head of Word Records, and CEO of Star Records, was one of the pioneers and most important executives in contemporary Christian music. After 26 years in the industry, he walked away from contemporary Christian music and in an article in Christianity Today (We Have Created a Monster) Mr. Moser freely admitted: “There is a growing chasm between CCN and the Church between what’s actually happening in the real world of ministry, or even in the music ministry of the Church, and what we’re doing in Contemporary Christian Music. In fact, I would probably be more inclined to call the industry commercial Christian music rather than Contemporary Christian Music…To be candid, I look at the majority of the music I hear today and think it’s virtually meaningless…we as an industry weren’t running away from the Church at that time, but I do think we walked away…so we could still basically, get rich. Materialism, a lot of it, crept in and started affecting our values…” (Christianity Today, May 20, 1996)

Michael Card acknowledges: “…we started with little root in the Church, and now we’re bearing the fruit of that separation…there’s a big accountability gap in the industry as a result of the lack of connectedness to the Church.” (Christianity Today, Can’t Buy Me Ministry, May 20, 1996)

MASS MARKETING MUSIC

In an interview in Christianity Today, Michael Card was quoted as observing: “The lyrics of a good number of the songs don’t portray anything specifically Christian - …not a lot of the big songs are identifiably Christian…what happens to the message when we start giving the music to as many people as possible? There is an essential part of the Gospel that’s not ever going to sell. The Gospel is good news, but it is also bad news: You are a sinner and you are hopeless. How is a multi-million dollar record company going to take that? That’s a part of the message, too, and if that’s taken out and it frequently is in Christian music it ceases to be the Gospel.” (Can’t Buy Me Ministry)

THE PRAISE OF MEN VS THE PRAISE OF GOD

The great Reformer Martin Luther warned of this nearly 500 years ago: “We should praise God with both word and music, openly proclaiming the Word of God through music…he who believes earnestly cannot be quiet about it. But he must gladly and willingly sing and speak about it so that others may come and hear it. And whoever does NOT want to sing and speak of it shows that he does not believe it.”

“They did not confess Him…for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.” Jn 12:42-43

It is clear from the Scripture that all music should be for the praise and glory of God. However, it seems that many Christian concerts seem to be everything but that. Here are a few reports of reactions to some major Christian artists and bands: “As teenager shrieks fill the Dallas Convention Centre moments before DC Talk took the stage Friday night, one of the relatively few grownups in the sold out crowd observed this is just like The Beatles!”; “His concerts draw hundreds of thousands of fans each year, mostly teenage girls who scream out their affection for him non-stop throughout…to his fans, Smith is the absolute greatest there is bar none…” (Inside Music)

IDOLATRY IN MUSIC

As Keith Green wrote: “Why do we idolise Christian singers and speakers? We go from glorifying musicians in the world to glorifying Christian musicians. It’s all idolatry!…Satan is getting a great victory as we seem to worship these ministers on tapes and records and clammer to get their autographs in churches and concert halls from coast to coast.” (So You Wanna Be A Rock Star? by Keith Green)

“Now, the industry is celebrity driven. The song is almost irrelevant. The focus is on the person and songs have become disposable…the direction and value system are getting worse faster than any of us can imagine.” (Can’t Buy Me Ministry)

“Sometimes people give us a hard time because we don’t mention God on stage…but we feel that our calling is to get people interested in our music, interested in us…” (Ghoti Hook, HM magazine)

“God knows your hearts. For what is highly esteemed among men is an abomination in the sight of God.” Luke 16:15

There is tremendous power in music, and whenever any minister of the Gospel questions a form of music or challenges popular trends in music, he will experience much abuse, hostility and an explosive reaction.

“For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ.” Galatians 1:10

THE MESSAGE, THE MUSIC AND THE MUSICIAN

Christian music should always emphasise the message the Word of God not the music, nor the musician. Christian music is not meant to be entertainment, it is not a performance, a concert or a talent show. Music is to be worship, a ministry as unto the Lord.

Dr. Frank Garlock has written: “Contrary to popular opinion, sacred music is not for entertainment. Christian music is first and foremost a vehicle for praise unto the Lord.” (Music In the Balance)

Church father, St. Augustine, observed: “When I am moved by the voice of him that sings more than the words sung, I confess to have sinned.”

However, much of what is presented as Christian music today not only emphasises the musician, but the medium completely overwhelms the message. In all too many cases the message is vague, ambiguous, obscured or incomprehensible.

Martin Luther emphasised the importance of avoiding worldly influence and ensuring that the message is clear: “But I would like to avoid any new words or the language used at court. In order to be understood by the people, only the simplest and the most common words should be used for singing; at the same time, however, they should be pure and apt; and further, the sense should be clear and as close as possible to the Psalm.”

SOUNDING LIKE THE WORLD

Fanny Crosby, a prolific Hymn writer who produced over 9,000 songs of praise, despite being blind, was only converted at 45 years old. Before this she wrote many secular songs. This is what Fanny Crosby wrote about mixing Christian hymns with worldly music: “Sometimes I need to reject the music proposed for my songs because the musicians misunderstand that the Fanny Crosby who once wrote for the people in the saloons has merely changed the lyrics. O my, no. The Church must never sing its songs to the melodies of the world.” (What’s Wrong With Christian Rock)

“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things are become new.” 2 Corinthians 5:17

“When Christian music carries the beat, instrumentation, and exact sounds of the lost crowd, it results in confusion and shame…it is shameful to use musicians who in shallow songs daze instead of praise, who entertain instead of train…that transfer the worship owed to Christ to concert hopping, money hungry entertainers who have never left the world far enough behind to stop sounding like it…” (Shame, By Dr. Hal Webb)

DEFINING MUSIC

Music is composed of three main components: Melody, harmony and rhythm. By definition, if any of these three elements are absent, then it is no longer music, but noise.

MELODY

Webster’s Dictionary defines “melody” as: “An agreeable succession of sounds; a succession of sounds so regulated and modulated as to please the ear. To constitute melody the sounds must be arranged according to the laws of rhythm, measure or the due proportion of the movements to each other…to make melody in the heart, to praise God with a joyful and thankful disposition, ascribing to Him the honour due to His Name.”

Amadeus Mozart declared: “Melody is the very essence of music.” (Wordsworth Dictionary of Musical Quotations)

“Melody is the main thing; harmony is useful only to charm the ear.” Joseph Haydn (Wordsworth Dictionary)

Melody is the horizontal line the notes follow on the music score. Without the melody line, there is no music.

HARMONY

Webster’s dictionary defines “harmony” as: “That union of different sounds which pleases the ear; or a succession of such sounds, called chords.” Harmony is the vertical line where the notes meet on the music score.

RHYTHM

“Rhythm” is defined by Webster: “Variety in the movement as to quickness or slowness,…the proportion which the parts of the motion have to each other.” Rhythm is the movement in music, the beat that holds everything together.

NOISE MASQUERADING AS MUSIC

Webster defines “musical” as: “Melodious; harmonious; pleasing to the ear…” By these definitions, much of what passes for music today would be more accurately described as noise.

The greatest musicians in history have agreed that melody is the very essence of music, but in much of contemporary music the rhythm, or the beat, has taken over and the melody and harmony has either become obscured or vanished.

“The rhythm in Rock is the dominant part of the sound. The heavy emphasis on the beat is what distinguishes Rock from every other type of music.” (Frank Garlock, Music In the Balance)

Even Mick Jagger of the Rolling Stones has been quoted as admitting: “It’s a noise we make. That’s all. You could be kind and call it music.” (The Rolling Stones An Illustrated Record, by Roy Carr)

“I’M A SLAVE TO THE RHYTHM”

“The sexuality of music is usually referred to in terms of its rhythm - it is the beat that commands a directly physical response.” (Sound Effects, Youth, Leisure and the Politics of Rock ’n Roll)

“Rhythm is the element of music most closely allied to body movement, to physical action. It’s simple patterns when repeated over and over can have a hypnotic effect on us.” (The Enjoyment of Music by Joseph Macklis)

When rock star Michael Jackson was asked why he made filthy sexual hand gestures on stage he replied: “It’s the music that compels me to do it. You don’t think about it, it just happens. I’m a slave to the rhythm.” (The Evening Star, 11/2/93)

While Rock music emphasises the beat, the Bible emphasises music as melody (Isaiah 23:16; Isaiah 51:3; Ephesians 5:19).

CELEBRATING UGLINESS

Instead of focussing on attractive, uplifting and beautiful sounds and themes much of the modern industry celebrates ugliness.

“…popular music seems terminally hostile to any sound traditionally associated with music.” (Hole In Our Soul The Loss of Beauty and Meaning in American Popular Music, by Martha Bayles)

THE VOODOO CONNECTION

The predominance of the drums in Rock music is noteworthy. Rock music emphasises hard driving beat. The drum is central in Rock, Rave, Rap and Hip Hop.

“Drums represent the beat of the heart and are played to summon up magic powers.” (Marinda Bruce-Mitford, The Illustrated Book of Signs and Symbols)

“Pagan dances and rituals are always accompanied by the incessant beat of drums. Rhythm plays a major role in these demonic activities.” (Satan’s Music Exposed, Lowell Heart)

“The idea that certain rhythm patterns or sequences serve as conduits for spiritual energies, linking individual human consciousness with the gods, is basic to traditional African religions…Rock ’n Roll can ultimately be traced back to African music of a primarily spiritual or ritual nature. In a sense Rock ’n Roll is a kind of voodoo…” (Rock ’n Roll An Unruly History, by Robert Palmer)

“Today’s drummer differs but a little from the shaman in his incessant beating out of a rhythm, and likewise often enters into a form of trance while performing.” (The Secret Power of Music, by David Tame)

Little Richard, the self-professed architect of Rock ’n Roll readily admits Satan’s control and influence in his life and Rock music: “My true belief about Rock ’n Roll is this: I believe this kind of music is demonic… a lot of the beats in music today are taken from voodoo, from the voodoo drums.” (The Life and Times of Little Richard, by Charles White)

INSTRUMENTS FOR WORSHIP

It is noteworthy that while the Bible lists many kinds of instruments for music, drums are never mentioned. “…for the music in the house of the Lord, with cymbals, stringed instruments and harps for the service of the house of God…” 1 Chronicles 25:6

“Praise God in His sanctuary…praise Him for His mighty acts; praise Him according to His excellent greatness! Praise Him with the sound of the trumpet; praise him with the lute and the harp! Praise Him with the timbrel and dance; praise Him with stringed instruments and flutes! Praise Him with loud cymbals; praise Him with clashing cymbals! Let everything that has breath praise the Lord.” Psalm 150

The drum was a very common instrument in Egypt and the lands around Israel at that time and yet drums are never mentioned as instruments for believers to use in worship. Christian music should emphasise the melody, not the beat. Christian music should feed the spirit and not the flesh. Christian music should be rooted in Scripture and focused on glorifying God.

PLEASING GOD

“Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Who then, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.” James 4:4

“For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the Law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.” Romans 8:5-8

“God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.” John 4:24

“Therefore come out from among them and be separate says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, and I will receive you. I will be a Father to you, and you shall be My sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.” 2 Corinthians 6:17-18

“I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable to God, which is your reasonable service. And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.” Romans 12:1-2

“Let the Word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom, teaching and admonishing one another in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord. And whatever you do, in word or deed, do all in the Name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through Him.” Col. 3:16-17

“Praise the Lord! Sing to the Lord a new song. And His praise in the assembly of saints.” Psalm 149:1


 2008/6/9 17:08









 Re:

Quote:

Thommy2 wrote:
So with all of these quotes above are they "prescriptive" or "descriptive"?
Also we have instruments mentioned, but not genres. If a Rap song had awesome lyrics, singing, used a trumpet, and a harp...would it be ok?
I'm asking b/c being young people definatley blow me off as if "I'll grow up and hate all music that the rest of main stream Christendom hates." I don't want to hate what man hates, I want to hate what God hates. We circle believers with an americanized moral ideology and stamp the name of the Lord on it to give it authority. (obivously morals are a huge issue. Many things "Christians" deem acceptable are evil and wicked I am not saying "Live outside of a Biblical boundry..Run be free).

So how would the Bible verses stated above build a case against a certain genre of music?

Thanks Y'all brothers for texting back and forth with me!


Thommy,

I don't think you are going to find anything Biblically against a certain genre of music that you can build a case (for you to confront possibly and argue with people about).

If I may ask, are you black or white? Did you grow up around rap/hip-hop music? What culture are you from? Irish? - celtic type music? American Indian - flute type music? Southern - southern type gospel music? Jewish? Italian? I do not like opera! But those who grew up with it, love it! I don't see people getting upset about Christian operatic (sp?) type music!! I've heard it, it's out there!

Personally, I'm white and I like listening to some Christian rap music. But my tastes change, I used to love southern gospel music, now I rarely listen to the stuff. I do like the snappy tunes from the Gaithers but other than that, I don't listen. I even had a neighbor once tell me that those who didn't listen to southern gospel music was going to hell. He condemned me right there.

Let me ask you this ... How did you come across this woman you are going to marry? From the time you laid eyes on her, what appealed to you about her? Her smile? Her walk? Her body type? Her hair? Her eyes? Her laugh? There is not too much Biblical about those things, are there? LOL But God knew what you liked and sent her your way. "Every good and perfect gift comes from the Father above!" After initially being attracted to her, then you got to know her, correct? Then you knew if she loved Jesus or not. If God cares about what you like in a woman, why wouldn't He care about what kind of music each of us like?

I understand you wanting to hate what God hates. I don't know about music but I know that God hates the sin in my life and your life. If we work on getting the lust out, getting the hate out, getting the selfishness out and love our neighbor as we love ourselves and we trust Him, I believe that God will take care of the rest!!

 2008/6/9 18:17









 Re:

Did you look around flame314's site? Here is an excerpt from a couple of his article's:

Just How “Christian” Are You Anyway?
by The Ambassador

Whether we claim to be a "Christian rapper," a "Christian hip hopper," or just a "plain Christian," the question should be asked of us, "just how Christian are we?"

The best Christian rappers are not just good rappers but, good Christians. The best Christian hip hoppers are not just cool hip hoppers but, good Christians. The best "plain Christians" are not those who have perfect church attendance, but those who live all of their life submitted and obedient to Jesus Christ. This is my burden and focus in 2007—the amping up of real Christians who are potent in their Christianity! Will the real Christians please stand up and stand out? Christian crowds are now easier than ever to amass. We've got our own celebrities, our own festivals, our own award shows, etc. Through the right marketing and promotions we can "do it big" these days, but in the midst of all of this I'm still plagued with the question, "just how Christian are we?"

This almost sounds like a trick question because it seems impossible to judge something like this. How do you judge how Christian someone is, or how Christian you are? I'm not sure that a "right answer" will be agreed on, but certainly we should be able to answer how much of the essentials of Christ's character and concerns are easily detected in us? Out of the darkness of secular culture God has clearly snatched for himself individuals and placed them into a union with His Son Jesus Christ. After this transfer, a lifestyle change is supposed to visibly and tangibly demonstrate the difference being in Christ makes. Christ is supposed to take over a person and live his life out through them. Therefore, I look to my generation and ask "just how Christian are you?"

and one about pornography:

Killing the Enemy of Pornography
submitted by FLAME

I write to you with deep concern and compassion. I recognize that this will be a fight over time for those who struggle in this area. If you do not struggle in this area, I recommend that you stay clear of it.

The first thing I want to encourage you with is that God has not left us alone in this area. He has given us the Holy Spirit and a new nature to help us combat this temptation. Our responsibility is to fight and trust God. We do this by disciplining our bodies and bringing it into submission (1 Cor. 9:27).

The Bible tells us that “No temptation has over taken you except such as is common to man, but God is faithful who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will make the way of escape, that you may be able to bear it” (1 Cor. 10:13). So don’t fret my friend, God has already made us free from this bondage to pornography and has made us slaves to Him (Rom. 6:22).

Be encouraged my brothers and sisters you can defeat this!

 2008/6/9 18:25
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re:

I think Intens4Him has given us some good perspective here. Listening to her is better then asking someone like me to load you up with my heavy frieght of legal opinions and complex justifications. ('Cause I'll do it!)

We should strive to be simple and honest with God and ourselves about these things. Our best arguments about the merits of retaining cultural relativity often overlook the sin in that culture! All our cultures, from wall street to bourbon street, are awash in depravity; so 'cultural relativity or authenticity' does not make something acceptable to God. In fact, my culture may very well provoke his judgment.

In Christ we have richer exhortations to give one another, then legal opinions about our different cultures. Oh how poorly we seem to comprehend the New Covenant! Our minds seem hard-wired for legalism with a nervous need to fit everything into neat categories of right and wrong.

If only I could say that love is the engine of all my actions! I like the way this whole burdensome question (of whether I should maintain a liberality or a closed mindedness towards the various cultural inventions of man) is effortlessly bypassed in the song lyrics "Turn your eyes upon Jesus,...and the things of earth will grow strangely dim,." Ahhh, no technical questions, law opinions, or complex justifications...not the slightest scent of legalism. Just love unfettered for the glory of God and for the saints of God. May we, who are from different cultures, grow and exhort one another to gather together into this entirely new culture from heaven.

Blessings,

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2008/6/9 21:56Profile









 Re:

I think as with anything else with a Christian tag on it, you need to be careful. I know a lot of Christians [b]love[/b] to declare anything even remotely resembling rap music to be inherently evil.

Sometimes I wonder if racism is really behind that.

My two older kids (ages 12 & 13) are starting to develop their own tastes in music. Their mother and I do dictate what music is acceptable in our house, and what will not be tolerated.

What I have found in Christian rap is, for the most part, a very bold declaration of Jesus Christ. Bolder than any other style of Christian music. What's coming out from Cross Movement, and the artists on that label, actually is very deep theologically. [b]Very[/b] deep.

One artist I would caution people about is T-Bone. He's one of the most popular ones. Some of his music is quite good, but I have heard some of his stuff where he's bragging about the cars he drives and all that... as if he's trying to out do his secular counterparts. He brags too much about himself... and he promotes the outer limits of the Charismatic movement & Word of Faith.

But a lot of Christian rap, lyrically speaking, is actually much better than most Christian music.

I would recommend Cross Movement, and the artists associated with them. Lecrae, Da' T.R.U.T.H., The Ambassador, etc.

Christian Rap will never be accepted by the hard core rap fans. Ask any record label and they will tell you the people buying Christian rap are [i]mainly[/i] Christian middle class white teenage boys. So evangelistic it is not... but it can be very encouraging and uplifting for those are into it.

Tell ya what tho... I really dont like rap music as a style. It doesnt do anything for me. TobyMac is as close as I get to liking rap music, and his stuff is actually a mixture of many different styles.

Oh, I forgot about KJ-52... I like that guy. Good tunes, good sense of humor. I can tolerate him in small doses.

Can I just say something here.... whenever the topic of music comes up it gets pretty dicey around here. But one thing that bugs me is that those who are agaisnt Christian music tend to post these lengthy tomes that they've cut and pasted from some corny website... full of quotes that wont give you the name or reference... etc... please dont do that, y'all. All I care about is hearing YOUR opinion on the topic. What does scripture say to YOU about it. I dont care about what Dial-A-Truth Ministries has to say about it.

Krispy

 2008/6/10 7:17









 Re:

Quote:
I'm asking b/c being young people definatley blow me off as if "I'll grow up and hate all music that the rest of main stream Christendom hates."



I heard that when I was a kid too, even tho I wasnt in church. Ya know what? I still love the same style of music I did when I was a kid. I no longer listen to the same bands because I wasnt saved back then... but stylistically, I still love it. I'm 40.

However, I will say this... my taste in music has expanded greatly the older I get. Back in the day I was into only 1 style of music, and everything else was junk. Well, I was wrong. Now I like just about everything except Opera, and really bad Christian music (and there is a lot of really bad Christian music).

Krispy

 2008/6/10 7:25









 Re:

Quote:
What if God HATES organs and pianos????



I think He does hate it. Here's why: I have the Spirit of God living inside of me, I have the mind of Christ, and I am a new creature... and I still hate organ music. Therefore I conclude that God hates organ music.

(tongue planted firmly in cheek!)

Krispy

 2008/6/10 7:33
TaylorOtwell
Member



Joined: 2006/6/19
Posts: 927
Arkansas

 Re:

The God Man Jesus Christ crucified for sin/He died to win triflin' type of men -- like me....

--shai linne

The Holy Jehovah dove in clothed with skin, broke in and atoned for sin then rose again/so odious rodents and homeless roaches can approach His throne and hold closer to Him, and won't be condemned!

--shai linne


_________________
Taylor Otwell

 2008/6/10 8:47Profile





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