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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

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 Re: chrisJD: Heresy hunting, or love for the weak?






Well Chris, Not to make this thread personal, but in answer to your Question, "How about you?", I think it would be wise not to seek your own Glory.

As far as it relates to this thread, it is far too vague and odd to address. Please be direct and to the point. If you don't agree with me, that's fine, but why the veiled accusations? If I am seeking my glory, and responding out of pride, to retaliate or substantiate my own personal perception of my grandiose spirituality, then I hope the Lord would humble me.

Is that what you believe, by reading my posts? If so, please pray for me, for I know I need to repent of all pride, and want to.


If this is about cessation-ism, and your possible anger that I oppose it, then could you please PM me, and I would like to reconcile with you. I am not your enemy.


I did not post this thread, and Sermonindex has endeavored to bring light into this troubling situation [heresies and Satanic deception], and has established a forum for those who may want to understand it better, to be able to deal with it from God's perspective.

If this is heresy hunting, in your perspective, you are entitled to your opinion, but you are wrong. I have tried to explain my views in each and every response to you, that many of the young and innocent are being taken in by this Evil.

I just visited the website of Bentley, and 2 million have watched this carnival on the net, and 140,000 have been there in person. It is growing, and with hundreds of glowing testimonies. Are you concerned? If not, you should be.


Please read my previous posts on this thread, for I cannot make it any more clear, and direct, than I have.


I will no longer address your posts here, and I hope you will PM me. Tom.

 2008/6/9 19:20
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

I have personally found that the best way to counter "heresy" is to simply preach the truth. While preaching the truth, it may be helpful to counter a thought/doctrine you believe to be in error. We are not called to sit there and nit-pick or run bull dozers through the doctrines of others. As Peter said, rather, we are called to proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light.

When you preach HIM, error will be exposed and come to light. While from time to time in Scripture you will find the apostles combatting false doctrine head on, you'll find that when they do, they often spend far more time setting forth positively what their view on things are instead of disecting their opponents views. Indeed, Paul warns that wrangling over words and controversies regarding the law will lead to the ruin of the hearers... especially our younger brethren who are often unlearned regarding most everything.

We are called to proclaim Christ, not wreck wrecks.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/6/9 19:40Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi again BrotherTom.


Thankyou for your response and for your patience with my question to you.


"As far as it relates to this thread, it is far too vague and odd to address. Please be direct and to the point."



I will try to.



BrotherTom, when you made this following public declaration of the judgment of God upon this organisation(The AOG), were you speaking of yourself or of God,



'Times have changed. I am sorry, but God has moved on, and out of this organization. They are not reprobate, as the United Methodists are,[the previous great and holy move], but I think this compromise, this general whisper of "Be nice now, "cause this may be bad" , spoken as it were to the wind, is an indicator that they are heading that way.'



- taken from
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=23916&forum=35&start=10&15]here[/url]





Also, when you made the following public accusations, did you make them of yourself, or of God,





"Rick Joiner went to a Catholic sponsored Prophetic conference in St. Louis, Mo., in the 1990's, and was the head of the "bill". [I kept the fl yer for years.] All catholic, some robed up, some in suits.[about 100 of them] Why? I believe the Spirits controlling understand that the charisma [supernatural giftings in the church] IS the open gate, and if the catholic can contribute and serve here, then the denial of fellowship is virtually indefensible .

This is the same Rick Joyner who is a knight of Malta,[ a highly secret and catholic mystical club] displays a sword by the pulpit. Lots and lots of unscriptural prophetic teaching.[outer darkness is a distant part of Heaven..]"



- taken from [url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=23542&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0]here[/url]



I'm not asking if these things are true or not, but whether you made these accusations and interpretation of the events, here, publicly, of yourself or of God?


Since, I think, you have presented yoruself here to this community as one capable of making public declarations of the judgment of God upon individuals, I think these questions are reasonable.



Thank you very much for your time and patience,


Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/9 19:50Profile









 Re: King Jimmy:wrecking wrecks



Without elaborating, Jim, I do and have spent my time proclaiming Christ, and him crucified. I agree with you on this. On the issues of heresies however, I do believe it is necessary for them to be confronted with the word, head on, or as you put it, to wreck a wreck.

From John the Babtist, and Christ himself, through all of the ministry of Paul, to the Pastoral Letters, and to all the letters to the churches, and through to the seven Churches that Jesus Himself assessed in Revelation 2 and 3. The New Testament is rife with warnings, admonitions, and confrontations all against heresy.

I do not recall the Apostles ever preaching the "excellencies of Christ" to the deceivers, but condemning them, head on; confronting them, the only effective way. Please read Acts chapter 20. Paul said he was warning night and day, with tears, for a period of three years. Some would say that this may be fanatical; overboard.


Also, this controversy has nothing to do with wranglings and disputes over the law, whatsoever. It has to do with the destroyer destroying, and the bringing to light the evil behind those he uses, [b]SO THAT[/b] our younger, unlearned brethren are not murdered.


I think that an attitude of proclaiming Christ to those who have forsaken Him, is rather naive, and certainly not Biblical.

As our brothers keeper, we want them to see evil as it is, and Christ as he is. [b]Feed and protect, while manifesting the absolute lordship of Jesus of Nazareth.[/b]. This is are calling as brothers, and evil times are upon us.

 2008/6/9 23:32
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


Brothertom,


"I do not recall the Apostles ever preaching the "excellencies of Christ" to the deceivers, but condemning them, head on; confronting them, the only effective way. Please read Acts chapter 20. Paul said he was warning night and day, with tears, for a period of three years. Some would say that this may be fanatical; overboard."




"Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears."


- Acts 20:31(KJV)


This passage says that Paul, the Apostle, [i]ceased not to [b]warn[/b][/i]. It does not say that he ceassed not to make public accusations and charges of guilt, or proclomations of the judgment of God upon individuals.


It does not say that he wrote letters of accusations and circulated them to the Churches. It says that he warned them. And he gave the [i]elders[/i], that God had appointed over His people, the charge of taking care for them.


He did not tell them to stand in the public places, or to travel from Church to Church, making accusations against others, or proclaiming God's judgment upon them.




Brothertom, you also said,


"It has to do with the destroyer destroying, and the bringing to light the evil behind those he uses, SO THAT our younger, unlearned brethren are not murdered."




And also in another place you said in regards to the Assemblies of God,


'Times have changed. I am sorry, but God has moved on, and out of this organization.'




Are you saying that God has revealed this to you, and commanded you to warn us of it?






Thankyou again for your time,



Chris


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/10 5:21Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

The New Testament is rife with warnings, admonitions, and confrontations all against heresy.



Indeed, it is rife with warnings, admonitions, and confrontations with heresy. However, these are very casual in nature. They occupy a very small part of their letters. Indeed, it seems to me that they spend more time warning us of the general character of false brethren, than they do the exact errors of false brethren. So much so that if you attempt to study exactly what it is that the false teachers were teaching (an area that much scholarship has been invested in), many times you will have to draw a question mark over the vast majority of the content of false teaching. Indeed, reconstructing the false teachers views from the NT has proven a very difficult task for scholarship.

At best a general slogan or brief summary of the nature of the false teaching is given by the apostles, but seldom in a detailed line upon line sort of way. And when they did strike at a false teaching, they briefly cut to the heart of the issue, and from there proclaimed positively what the truth of the matter was.

Quote:

Please read Acts chapter 20. Paul said he was warning night and day, with tears, for a period of three years.



This is simply bad exegesis. Paul here wasn't warning them with tears day and night about false doctrine. Rather, he says time and time again the content of his admonitions had to do with the whole counsel of God. He warned them false teachers would arise from their midst, but set forth to remind them the teachings he himself set forward as he proclaimed the gospel in public and from house to house. This would be sufficient for them to know the true from the false, if they would simply cling to his teachings.

Quote:

Also, this controversy has nothing to do with wranglings and disputes over the law, whatsoever.



Most "heresy hunting" does.

Quote:

It has to do with the destroyer destroying, and the bringing to light the evil behind those he uses, SO THAT our younger, unlearned brethren are not murdered.



I have personally found our younger brethren come to understand more about what the false teachers teach than the actual content of the gospel itself as the result of many "Bible answer men." If we would simply hammer away at the truth of God's word instead of why so-and-so's teaching is false, then when every wind of doctrine comes their way, they will be able to stand, and will not be easily led astray. They will not need to know why such and such is false, for instead, they will see for themselves and scarcely give attention to most false doctrines, as they will know the faith once and for all handed down to the saints.

Quote:

I think that an attitude of proclaiming Christ to those who have forsaken Him, is rather naive, and certainly not Biblical.



So we are to proclaim something else rather than Christ?


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/6/10 7:05Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

I think that an attitude of proclaiming Christ to those who have forsaken Him, is rather naive, and certainly not Biblical.



Just a further thought on why I believe this is wrong. Such is wrong because it shows a lack of understanding on how saving faith is generated. Romans 10 teaches that all faith comes through hearing the proclaimed word of God. The ability to respond to the gospel, no matter what state one is in spiritually, comes from hearing the proclaimed word. For the word itself imparts the ability to BELIEVE. Apart from the word being proclaimed, there is no ability to believe.

Thus, we must even proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called us out of darkness into His marvelous light to those who are false brethren. For until they have the revelation we have had of the awesomeness of a holy God, they will continue on in their unregenerate state. They need to escape the fires of hell just as much as the ignorant drunk. And the way of salvation is the same for both of them.

We must give men something to BELIEVE, not DISBELIEVE.


_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/6/10 7:14Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3366
Louisiana

 Re:

There is indeed a place for exposing heresy. But the most effective way of doing this is to preach the truth, and not major on the lie. "You shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free." The Word instructs us that we are not to be ignorant of the wiles of the devil, but we will never get there if we focus on the darkness. The hidden things of darkness are revealed by the light. It is light from God that we need, and the more that we know the truth (Jesus), the more that the counterfeit and the false will be exposed.

Heresy hunters are looking for what is wrong in a ministry and often totally miss what is of God. You can study demons and lies and become a expert on them, but be lacking in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. He has to be our focus.

Mike


_________________
Mike

 2008/6/10 8:20Profile





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