SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 Next Page )
PosterThread
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3366
Louisiana

 Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

Heresy Hunters - John R. Lucas

How Paul dealt with Heresy
Heresy must be dealt with in the church, but our way of dealing with it may not be God's way of dealing with it. God shows us His way through Paul, who was a spiritual father to the Corinthian church and could therefore speak to them as none other could concerning heresy and false doctrine. When you labor and sacrifice in love like Paul did, then God can use you to admonish and rebuke as well as encourage. God will even use you to expose sin in the camp, and false teachers by name. But remember he was not just a brother, but a father speaking in love prompted by the Holy Spirit.

Many in the body try playing this role having not labored in love and the result leads to death. Much of the New Testament letters to the churches deal with false doctrine and heresy, therefore leaving the example of how we must deal with and how we should not deal with heresy. The scripture says "be angry and do not sin" because anger and opposing heresy is borderline into stepping over into the flesh, into faultfinding, into debate, into contention. Without Christian maturity we will normally be in the flesh and not in the Spirit when we get angry, expose sin, reveal heretics, etc.. The chapter is about SIFTING OUR MOTIVES AND INTENTS OF OUR HEARTS. Please do not “read into” what I am saying, hear with a true heart what the Spirit is saying.

I have something of the Lord to say concerning God's displeasure of those who step into the business of exposing. I do not speak to you as someone who has been attacked or hurt by them, for I have not been attacked or hurt by them, but I am sure one day, just as Paul was, the self appointed exposer will target me, just like they will get to you. Paul was frequently the target of criticism by heresy hunters, and the Corinthian Church was a church that received these sayings against Paul - because of their immaturity. Paul had to show them plainly, the evidence that “these other apostles” indeed were “false apostles” while he was the “true apostle”. No one should ever have to prove their apostleship like this but if we allow those with a critical gospel to continue then they will subvert the hearers that have yet to mature.
Remember, everybody is open game with one who makes their entire ministry a "heresy hunter" because most of them do not fear God in teaching the scriptures and they think nothing of accusing entire ministries and movements and ministers by name. They saw Paul do the same and therefore they have deceived themselves into thinking that they have reached his maturity and can do the same. Again the activity itself is not what is evil; their activity is evil primarily because their own life is not mature. It is evil because the method that is used lacks the character of Jesus, and it is evil because they have sought to expose others on their own authority and initiative instead of only on God’s authority and initiative. Proof of this is usually seen in that - if you do not say things the way they want it said or if you do not do things the way they think they ought to be done then you are TARGETED. They conduct this activity with scripture and they say they are commissioned of God as a watchman on the wall.

First, let us make it very clear that any ministry, whose ENTIRE focus is on exposing the heresy of others, is in itself heresy. They sometimes talk about others as being “extra-biblical” but their entire ministry is extra-biblical because there are NO New Testament ministries in the Bible whose primary purpose was to expose others. Only on occasion did Paul, who had obtained great maturity, expose others by name, but his spirit was out of the nature of Jesus in doing it. The pattern of Paul in dealing with error, heresy, and false teaching was to bring to light the lie and apply truth that sets you free. Paul’s word provided an answer like Elihu’s word. His own life was free of heresy as he did it. Those who wish to do what Paul did had better be walking in the Wisdom, the Love nature of Jesus and the Power that Paul did or they will eventually be calling that which is Light - darkness. Many ministries that call themselves “discernment ministries” or “heresy hunters” are liken to Job’s three friends. “They condemn but have no answer from heaven”. They tout scripture and maybe wise saying like Job’s friends but they never produced eternal fruit in the lives they seek to warn. But God has called us to be as Elihu, pointing out the error at the proper moment, in the way of God and proving the answer of life from heaven.

Enough said on those types of ministries, now let us look into the mirror of the Word to see if we have the same spirit in our hearts. It is very easy sometimes to see the error in ones like this because their sin is so blatant, but many times we have the same sin and error but in a smaller measure, God wants us to deal with what is in our hearts. I have in the past and have observed many others that have contended with “discernment ministries” and we have harbored the very SAME SIN. The very sin we can preach against and hate is sometimes the very iniquity we are blinded to - that dwells inside us. Therefore let us look inward, in that hidden closet of our heart.
I remember a leadership that opposed the heresy hunters, they did not believe in ANY discerning and judging of others. They felt like if you were to say that one was in error or you discerned them as a heretic or a wolf – you were a prideful judge. This is a pendulum swing to the other direction. The irony of this particular leadership is was their blindness to that same iniquity in their own lives. They judged others who judged. They had to determine and make judgments upon others concerning doctrines just as the heresy hunters had done to them. And as deception would have it, they did so with unrighteous judgment. They became the very thing that they hated and yet were blind to see it. We are all called to judge but not to condemn. We are called to judge other as well as matters but never in condemnation. This judging is called discernment, we are called to do it in maturity and it must be righteousness spoke in His Nature.
Jesus confronted the Scribes and Pharisees and also drove out the moneychangers, but He also was able to be overflowing in the Love of the Father in doing so. He was able to move and speak only on the prompting of the Father. Jesus also healed the sick, set free the captives, raised the dead, prophesied, and preached good news to the poor. You cannot choose to “oppose heresy” and be unwilling to do ALL that Jesus is doing. It is much easier to walk in love as I lay hands on the sick, then it is to expose error and confront the Pharisee. It is easier to minister Jesus as the healer of the brokenhearted then to drive out the moneychangers and sin not. We are not to become contentious or become involved in debate. Scripture calls this a work of the flesh and it does not matter who is right and whose facts are accurate, it is a work of the flesh and God despises it. WATCH for contention and debate among your brethren that is done “in the name of truth”. Watch for unrighteous discernments. The way of Christ is this, in an argument, the first one to lay down his life wins - in other words you must lose your life to win it, you must yield. There is never a right side when you enter into an argument or contention, for not one shall come away having received the crucified Christ. The present day heresy hunting that Christians do is a counterfeit. When you bite into the fruit - it contains death instead of Life.

Some of us preach “Jesus and Him crucified” that is not pleasing to Him, we call it “warning our brother”. We must WATCH how we present Christ. We can deceive with a great power of deception if we do not take heed, because we can use our true facts and subvert the hearers. We can use man's own common sense reasoning power to persuade others with the scriptures. Our own words can expose sin and deception in the camp. "What a noble cause" we may say, or "I am keeping them from deception" is our response. “We are just keeping others informed about the current events of what's happening in the body" we justify ourselves by saying. But hear God's heart on what we are doing and learn to discern as a spiritual man who has eyes to see and ears to hear.
Paul told the Galatian church about the heresy of Peter, however, he communicated the truth in love and never destroyed Peter or the ministry that God called Peter to perform.
Gal 2:8
(for He who effectually worked for Peter in {his} apostleship to the circumcised effectually worked for me also to the Gentiles),
Paul put his stamp of approval on Peter's ministry before he brought up the example of the heresy of law observance that Peter propagated. Peter, like us, operated in human frailty. He had revelation of Jesus as the Christ and denied Him moments later, because he did not have a revelation of a suffering Messiah. Peter also took his sword and cut off the ear of Malchus thinking he was going to assist Jesus. We also many times thinking that we are assisting Jesus, will take His Word and cut off a few ears. When we do this, we show no compassion or mercy on others who preach the truth but who fail in an area of doctrine or character. We tend to magnify the error and highlight it and sometimes we never qualify it with the truth. This is the spirit of Satan as the accuser of the brethren. We are dangerous to those that hear us when we act like this. If we will give others the name of the minister, the church, the ministry, the movement or the denomination and label them as associated with false doctrine then the hearer may deny them categorically and miss out on something God may be trying to teach them. We focus on the things we see that are in error concerning our brother and that is all we see, but in reality there are many areas that may be right – we cannot cause someone to categorically reject another’s ministry until we know that God has categorically rejected their ministry. Even then we can only speak as we have heard Him say.
Titus 3:2
To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. (KJV)
We tend to focus on the small percentage of someone else's false doctrine as if we have no false doctrine of our own. Many times one can show you the leaven of someone else, all the while presenting their own leaven of false doctrine. You must present the Truth that sets others free. True statements about others can lead to bondage. In fact many in the church are acting like daytime talk shows that we see in the world. We commit spiritual adultery in our immaturity and are still willing to cast the first stone. Not even the accusers of the adulteress were so spiritually proud. WATCH the words that proceed out of your mouth.
Prov 18:21
Death and life are in the power of the tongue: and they that love it shall eat the fruit thereof. (KJV)
Be careful about judging entire moves of God, denominations, ministries based on the most extreme element of something you disagree with – you can cause fear of reproach. This is a reproach that can cause others to be afraid to even use certain biblical terminology because of the damage that was caused. You may spot an error and make it known to others and categorically state that the entire ministry is deceptive, when in fact the deception that may exist is only a fraction of what is preached in that ministry. We see this activity in the world when we observe journalism. This same spirit can come into the church and it can be quite dangerous.
The natural mind will reason with us, "well the intention is good, to stamp out the evil of heresy". Heresy is sin, heresy is "thought processes" that are separated from God; but we must be careful when we take it upon ourselves to stamp out heresy because we can easily do it in our own strength. I see the oppression of God's people because of heresy and I myself have been tempted of Satan to do something about it on my own, but let me give you a couple of truths that will help. Moses also saw the oppression of the people of God when an Egyptian beat Moses' brethren, and Moses slew that oppressor. But it was not on God's authority, it was not God's way, it was not God's time; though Moses' intention was true. Moses afterwards spent 40 years in the desert and had totally resolved in himself, that in himself he could never do anything about the oppression of his brethren. This is when God can really use us, and when we see Moses used of God you will notice it was a method where only God could get glory and not the servant of God. Men can bring attention to themselves when they speak; Jesus said this of the learned scribes who knew scriptures in the head and not the spirit. When we do these things we have unfortunately abandoned the ministry of reconciliation to which we were really called and are now being used by the enemy to subvert anyone who listens to us.
We are not to be God's Holy Exposers!
We are not to listen to anyone who thinks they are!
Guard You Heart!
You must sow mercy to receive it. All of us have missed the mark and fallen short in our growth to manifest Jesus in pure and sound doctrine. The book of James says that he that controls his tongue is a perfect man. The plan of God is to be perfect and control our tongue, and may we show mercy to others as we walk towards that perfection; because we need to obtain mercy for that which we speak because our speech will also miss the mark of representing Jesus Chirst until that day of maturity.
If you were to avoid false doctrine than you would have to be removed from the earth. False doctrine is anything that misrepresents Jesus, whether His character or His plan and at least a small element can be found in most messages. If you were to isolate yourself from the apostles, prophets, pastors, evangelists, and teachers, then you would not be perfected, equipped, and edified. What we must do is receive only what the anointing in us is teaching.
If we teach truth it will expose ANY darkness.
If we teach truth then the body of Christ will learn to discern for themselves.
We do not have to be the discerner or exposer for others. For example if I tell you the name of ministries that I discern as in error, you may avoid them, but the next new one will be in line to take its place. I would also be destroying that ministry and its ministers, even though they might be called of God and have been temporarily mislead like Peter was. Again Paul did address some deceivers by name, but it was deceivers that were wolves in sheep's clothing and his audience was churches he had fathered in the faith. You better be hearing from heaven when you step out and expose a name in public. It is scriptural to do so but then so is thrusting out the money changers from our temples, and many other activities are scriptural in public ministry but you never have the RIGHT TO DO THEM. You have no rights in God’s kingdom; you gave all your rights up when you made Jesus your Lord over every action of your life. You decide as He bids you to decide. You reveal to others as He gives you permission. You expose only when He exposes, then it is not you exposing, it is Jesus bringing light to darkness. The result will be pleasing to God and will cause unity. If you do the same activity apart from relationship, on your authority – it will always condemn and provide no answer from heaven.
This is Satan's strategy revealed. Satan as the accuser of the brethren will come to you to condemn you. He will show you the parts of your life that do not look like Jesus, but he does so to condemn and judge your spiritual man. He has passed the sentence of death on you and if you accept his sayings, you will shut off your heart from manifesting Jesus to the world. Your soul will become hard as unplowed rocky soil, you will keep that sprout of life from breaking through the shell of the seed; you will have placed a bushel over the light of His Presence in you.
The Holy Spirit will come to you as well, also to judge and to condemn; but He CONDEMNS THE NATURAL MAN. He reveals the parts of you that do not look like Jesus, for the purpose of letting it become consumed with fire on the altar. The Holy Spirit gives grace and ability to put to death our ways that are evil and allow that within us to break forth and sprout life, to shine, to manifest the Love which is found in Christ.
2 Cor 4:7,10,11
But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us. Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.

This is the Holy Spirit judging your natural man! It can only be done by the Spirit, for the cross of Christ is never self-inflicted in its dying.

11 For we which live are always delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.
Satan passes sentence on the spiritual man and the Holy Spirit passes sentence on the natural man. Now when we are condemning others whether in our daily relationships or in condemning those that are a part of the body, we are as Satan, shutting them off from manifesting Jesus to the world. Now when we admonish, we are as the Holy Spirit, allowing them to break forth, to spring life, to manifest Jesus to the world. Both use TRUE FACTS, but only One produces life. Again God can use you to expose others by name but FEAR GOD and let it spring from compassion – do not deceive yourself in this matter.
Why all the emphasis on this topic?
As we progress towards truth, towards maturity, towards spiritual discernment – there will lay ahead a trap. As we see error and immaturity in OTHERS, there will be an opportunity to respond to the error and immaturity in a way that does not please God. We will be tempted to point out this error and immaturity to other mature believers or whoever will listen to us, thus becoming a BUSYBODY. We must mind our own affairs before God. We must be a people that show compassion towards those who have not yet received these truths that God has been revealing to us. If we have received anything that is of the Lord, it is only because GOD SHOWED US MERCY IN - SHOWING IT TO US. Compassion is AGAPE that shows mercy and we are not showing mercy if we have received a great revelation of God’s plan and criticize others who have yet to understand God’s plan. In your Sunday service, you may observe something which you discern as of the “soulish man” instead of the “Spiritual man”, what is your response? Did you respond with compassion; forbearing your Christian Brother, Sister or Pastor? Or did you forget the mercy that God showed you when you were ignorant in your sins? Finally, a busybody also criticizes others about how they raise their kids, what type of personality an individual has, and what religious convictions another person may hold – PUT AWAY THE INIQUITY OF BEING A BUSYBODY. Put away the critical spirit. Prefer your brother as MORE IMPORTANT than yourself.
As you become a father in the Lord to others, you will be dealing with “exposing sin” and “false doctrine”, whether you wish to or not. Therefore you must be mature and sober in your own walk – being free from heresy in you life or you will be limited in helping others get free of heresy in their life. Allow no self-righteousness and spiritual pride in your heart or the consequences will be severe in exposing unrighteousness and pride in their heart. My natural children like to play house, one plays the father and my little girl plays the mother. If we step into the activity of pointing out the heresy and deception of others and we have not obtained deliverance from heresy and deception then all we are doing is “playing house”. When you become a true spiritual father then you will know how to deal with these issues without slaying the Egyptian as Moses did and the result will not be “who made you our Lord”. God will do the slaying and your true children will leave Egypt, though, many that are not true children may fall away.
Send comments to John R. Lucas -


_________________
Mike

 2008/6/1 7:57Profile
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re: Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

"Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God, That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost."


- Romans 15:15-16(KJV)


[i]...because of the grace that is given to me of God,[/i]



This stood out to me today and thought of the article shared here.



He seems to say something similar in Romans 12:3.




"For I say, through the grace given unto me..."


_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/2 19:58Profile
sonofthunder
Member



Joined: 2005/3/31
Posts: 419
Son Of Thunder i come from a land down under, due south at the bottom of your work globes

 Re: Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

Not to many taker's on this one - well so far!
..............................................
The P& C movement actually laugh at us ... because we spend all of our time CHASING their errors. As is pointed out Paul never did that. Jesus said beware the doctrine of the pharisee and scribe, but not to occupy (solely) in nothing but debunking their errors. But When it came down to (Q&A) time... and they came tempting him. Then He dealt with it. Telling them they do greatly ERR because they know not the scripture, nor do they (understand) the power of God. He also debunked the saduccee who had everyone rattled - with cleverly put together arguments and with heresy which defied belief in the resurrection!!
But Jesus SO debunked their well constructed arguments .... that they (durst not) ask any more questions tempting him - that is tempting him ( to loss his cool, become angry, preach error himself, contradict the law of moses etc ) tempting him! Paul said heresy is how we christians - define true brethren from false and those not approved of God, saying it is necessary that heresy should come, so that those NOT endorsed and supported by God....might be known TO US ( and be manifested) But people who justify heresy hunting - won't come out, generally speaking on these kinds of articles. Well except to justify more "heresy hunting" perhaps .... they might :-o


_________________
Bro Stephen

 2008/6/2 20:46Profile









 Re: Loving is Protecting too.

I think that it is wise to think of heresies on a local level. It's much easier to absorb and note the responsibility to expose heresy, simply because it hits home, where dinner is served. We tend to conceive of heresy as more ethereal, more mystic, more in objective terms, than down home reality.


We must see , that the great war is raging around the [b]Purity[/b] of the church, rather than the blessing of it, or it's prosperity in either numbers or finance.

If we believe that divisions or deceived doctrine and ministry can knock us off our pilings, as a holy church, then it is essential that we be aware of it. This may take discernment, in the sense that the deception is opposed to the Bible via either the Word, or by the discernment of supernatural gifting. The Spirit and the Word will always agree.

Let me give you an important New Testament answer in Acts 20, Vs 27-31. "Therefore I testify this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
For I have not shunned to declare to you the [b]WHOLE COUNSEL OF GOD.[/b] [including protection as a shepherd.]
Therefore take heed to yourselves [b]and to all of the flock[/b] which the Holy Spirit has made you shepherds, to [b]SHEPHERD[/b] the church of God which he purchased with His own blood. [hallelujah!]
For I know this, that after my departure SAVAGE WOLVES will come in among you , not Sparing the Flock."

Wouldn't it be nice to know just who these wolves were, by name? Yes. We would want everyone to know, just in case our little sister might be one of the casualties. By name.
"Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after themselves.


Therefore, [b]WATCH[/b] .....[continually be on your guard, for these wolves don't sleep.] and remember for three years I did not cease to [b]WARN[/b] EVERYONE, night and day with tears."


Paul incessantly, fanatically almost, warned, day and night, about deceivers, in and out of the church. They come for the purity of the Faith of the Saints, to defile, and steal it; to replace it with a murdering lie. These are the heresies we speak of, and it happens that today, we are in a Tsunami of Liars and Deceivers.

Remember this; that a true Shepherd not only feeds the Body, but as Jesus, the GREAT SHEPHERD did, he [b]Protects the body also[/b].

 2008/6/4 18:44
ChrisJD
Member



Joined: 2006/2/11
Posts: 2895
Philadelphia PA

 Re:

Hi everyone,


I was looking at Acts chapter 20 and I think there are a couple of things of note in the context of the passage which perhaps correspond to the original post here. First, a qoute from the article:



"...it is evil because they have sought to expose others on their own authority and initiative instead of only on God’s authority and initiative."




In verse 17 of Acts 20, it says that Paul had called the [b]elders[/b] of the church at Ephesus together. And having them together(verse 18) he spoke to them. And it is during this speech that he gives them the charge to take heed to themselves and to the flock, which, he says


"...the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers"







_________________
Christopher Joel Dandrow

 2008/6/4 22:33Profile









 Re: My brothers keeper.

So, i hope your not implying that if you haven;t been ordained an Elder, that you would be mute in such a case? [beholdig a wolf in ACTS 20.]

I personally have a strong distaste for those who make a ministry of fault finding, and calling it discernment; usually to enforce their own often hateful doctrinal dogma. It's simply a method of villianizing all who may not agree with their denominational or personal stance.

They will search for differences, and some valid ones, and after "exposing" it, [that's their side of the argument] , they pull out the branding arm, the dreaded "BAR H"[heretic] moniker.

I think of Hank Hanigraf. To me, he seems brutal. He has been obviously correct in some of his assessments, yet has refused any grace to any of the brothers who believe in the gifts and prophetic encounters in the church, as evil. He finds fault to reinforce his own prejudices, and conservative camp. This is exactly the root meaning of the word heretic. It means DIVIDER, IE, one who breaks the holy unity of the Holy Spirit; The common union of the true church.

This is why I said, though, I think we can relate to heresies easier if we bring it down from the subjective ideas about it, and into the realm of our real life; the local church.

We may be able to understand it on a forum as this, yet , if I'm reading you right, often it seems that some are validating their ministries, or maturity simply by pointing out evil[perceived or not] with out the continuity of Christ like fruit and thinking. This often happens in Theological Seminaries. Men assume a "position", thought out over centuries by the most brilliant of minds, and in adapting it, and incorporating into their PERSONA'S, become that deep and mature minister. It;s called "indoctrination"; A proselyte. Often, they are unbending to this original conception of doctrine for the rest of their lives.

They then tend to separate and reject those who differ. Some write books about it, some more modern media , [b]BUT[/b] the spirit of it is not to protect the Holy Church, but to protect and preserve their own place and position.

"If we let Him continue, the Romans will come and remove our nation and our place [and position]"...the Pharisee's counsel to murder Jesus. They didn't care about the fact that Lazarus had been resurrected, knowing that Jesus was the Messiah. You see, Jesus was a heretic.

Remember, the holy spirit has made you a BROTHER first and above all.


 2008/6/5 4:09









 Re: Heresy Hunters: Is This Discernment?

"First, let us make it very clear that any ministry, whose ENTIRE focus is on exposing the heresy of others, is in itself heresy. They sometimes talk about others as being “extra-biblical” but their entire ministry is extra-biblical because there are NO New Testament ministries in the Bible whose primary purpose was to expose others." John Lucas

I have to agree with much of what is said here. Heresy hunting is self-indulged and lacks humility and love. Those of Pent & Charism movements who laugh at such know what they see. They see a severe lack of good fruit. I don't have a problem with disagreement and critiques on doctrine(s) on sites like this since there seems to be no 'hunting' as a predatory type exposure to puff ourselves up. This site doesn't have a lengthy name list of 'heretics' who are put on 'stand-by', as if should they hit defcon 5 they will be spontaneously combusted by the hand of God. I do think some debates go to far in the argument of Scripture but it's mostly 'in-house' quarreling.

However, I do believe that God put warnings in the Bible about false prophets and teachers and the false signs and miracles that come with them for a reason. There is a reason why Jesus began discussing the last days with: SEE THAT YE ARE NOT DECEIVED. In terms of the Lakeland movement, it came to us. We did not set it ablaze with popularity and sweeping curiosity. I believe there is a mandate to expose falsehoods out of the love of God. I don't believe heresy hunters have the love of God in their hearts. Their style is angry and disingenuous like a modern day talk radio personality. Their passion is self absorbed and misguided.

Exposing falsehoods isn't about winning an argument, it's about warning believers and unbelievers out of genuine concern for their souls and again out of the love of God. If one wants to win an argument perhaps one should become a scholar and spend the rest of their lives debating scripture outside of the love and the truth of the Holy Spirit. You can have all of the facts and still not have truth, you see it so much in the church these days. These works are works that will be burned up in the end, they have no substance of Jesus.

God used prophets to expose sin and waywardness of God's people, there were no designated heresy hunters as the article correctly states. I was reading Daniel yesterday and I noticed that he went at length to confess his own sin and the sins of Israel and God told him that he would tarry 70x7.

Daniel 4 20 While I was speaking and praying, confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel and making my request to the LORD my God for his holy hill- 21 while I was still in prayer, Gabriel, the man I had seen in the earlier vision, came to me in swift flight about the time of the evening sacrifice. 22 He instructed me and said to me, "Daniel, I have now come to give you insight and understanding. 23 As soon as you began to pray, an answer was given, which I have come to tell you, for you are highly esteemed. Therefore, consider the message and understand the vision:

24 "Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy.

I find this to be significant in that Jesus later told His disciples(perhaps Peter) to forgive 70x7 and the passage in Daniel that speaks of end of sin, transgressions, atonement, and everlasting life that is obviously Christ himself. I believe that whoever is genuine in exposing falsehoods will act somewhat in the manner of Daniel. Speaking truth and pleading with God for forgiveness and mercy.

As we know Daniel was in the business of exposing heresy and waywardness of a whole Babylonian movement, but it was simply a by-product of serving God..it was a means wrapped in relationship, not a duty that was militaristic or predatory.

This I believe Brethren is what separates the work of God in exposing, and the work of 'self' in accusing.

 2008/6/5 9:20
Thommy2
Member



Joined: 2008/6/3
Posts: 60
Wisconsin

 Re:

"I think of Hank Hanigraf. To me, he seems brutal. He has been obviously correct in some of his assessments, yet has refused any grace..." -Brothertom

What saddens me most about many discernment ministries is the misrepresentaion of the opposing views. I copied Brothertom because I think Hannegraaf is a perfect example of misrepresentation.
When he is "informing" brothers and sister of the dangers of Kenneth Copeland or Benny Hinn he takes comments out of context and takes what they said and distort it. That's wrong and not done in love; actually it is lying and a sin. Copeland and Hinn do a good job of destroying themselves and need no help from exaggerating "ministers".
There is a time to call-out a minister (see the Apostle Paul and Apostle John and even more recently J.Edwards or R.C. Sproul). But we have to actually share what these people believe and how they think, not how we happen to view them(I think of how Sproul accurately potrays Catholics). Too many of us (personally guilty of it) try to exalt our views (which may even be right) by misrepresenting the views of opposing theology.
I think another good example or mistrepresetation, is how MANY not all but MANY sermons you hear on the emergent church flat out misrepresent their beliefs/lie about their beliefs(especially by making blanket statements).
As Christians we need to earnesty contend for the Gospel, and NEVER stand up for a false teacher! But before we point, let us first examine ourselves and then truly examine the opposing view. If the opposing view is full of darkness, we should not have to dim the lights before presenting our case, we should only have to say "look at the darkness that engulfs this false teaching"


_________________
Thom

 2008/6/5 9:42Profile
Mattie
Member



Joined: 2004/7/23
Posts: 210


 Re:

In Revelation 2 the rebuke to Ephesus was they had much works, patience, labor, and "tested those who say they are apostles and are not" - they had a great ministry of "discernment" yet they lacked the love of God behind it all.

i think this rebuke could apply to many discernment ministries today

 2008/6/5 15:43Profile









 Re:

Quote:
i think this rebuke could apply to many discernment ministries today



Isnt that being judgemental??

I'm just sayin'...

Krispy

 2008/6/5 16:28





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy