| What happened after the Spirit came on Jesus?|
I just started going through the Gospel of John at my church. I noticed something that is one of those "apparent contradictions." I was wondering if someone had some input.
Going through the first chapter of John it appears that starting with vs 19 John gives us a record of 5 days in a row. Here is the end of day 2.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Joh 1:35 [b]Again the next day[/b] after John stood, and two of his disciples;
I seems to be that John the Baptist sees the Spirit descend on him and then the next day Jesus gained two disciples. But if we cross reference to Mark we don't get the same picture...
Mar 1:9 And it came to pass in those days, that Jesus came from Nazareth of Galilee, and was baptized of John in Jordan.
Mar 1:10 And straightway coming up out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the Spirit like a dove descending upon him:
Mar 1:11 And there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
Mar 1:12 And [b]immediately[/b] the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
Mar 1:13 And he was there in the [b]wilderness forty days[/b], tempted of Satan; and was with the wild beasts; and the angels ministered unto him.
How do these two passages go together?
| 2008/5/28 22:52||Profile|
| Re: What happened after the Spirit came on Jesus?|
I think it's important to keep in mind that you are reading 1st century literature that is not as concerned with strict linear time lines like modern literature is.
Mark is following the pattern that he uses in his Gospel. It is one of action and it speeds very quickly to the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus Christ. Mark, being concerned with the major milestones of Jesus ministry does not concern himself with the calling of the disciples but the fact that the next major thing that happened immediately after the first one was the temptation of Christ.
Hope this helps a little.
SI Moderator - Jeremy Hulsey
| 2008/5/28 23:08||Profile|
| Re: What happened after the Spirit came on Jesus?|
The first three Gospels are also called the [b]synoptic Gospels.[/b]
also synoptical \-ti-kəl\
Greek synoptikos, from synopsesthai
1: affording a general view of a whole
2: manifesting or characterized by comprehensiveness or breadth of view
3: presenting or taking the same or common view; specifically often capitalized : of or relating to the first three Gospels of the New Testament
4: relating to or displaying conditions (as of the atmosphere or weather) as they exist simultaneously over a broad area
Just like eye witnesses to an accident, each one of the three Gospels- Matthew, Mark and Luke--give a testimony to what was witnessed.
The Gospel of John is a sweeping overview, written by John, through the power of the Holy Spirit many, many years later in his life, in the second half of the first century.
The Gospel According to John is the fourth book of the New Testament of the Bible. In style, language, and content, it differs dramatically from the Gospels of Matthew, Mark, and Luke - called the synoptic Gospels. Unlike these Gospels, the fourth Gospel opens with a philosophical prologue (John 1:1 - 18). It identifies the Logos, or Word, with Christ and introduces the themes to be developed in the Gospel.[b] Further comparisons show that the synoptic Gospels describe the ministry of Christ mainly in Galilee, with reference to only one Passover; but John situates most of the events in Judea and refers to three Passovers.[/b]
Thus it is from John's Gospel that one concludes that Jesus' ministry lasted 3 years. In the synoptic Gospels, parables are Jesus' vehicle for teaching; in John, long discourses are used. Although John omits significant events such as the Temptation of Christ and the Transfiguration, he relates a number of events in Jesus' life not found in the synoptic Gospels.
By the time the fourth Gospel was written, in the latter half of the 1st century, Christianity had shifted from Jerusalem to the Aegean world. The thought of the day was directed more to universal truths than to historical facts. With the development of Gnosticism, the idea of the spirit was stressed, and the idea of the material was deemphasized. Weaving into his message concepts like truth, light, life, spirit, and word,[b] John aimed to teach that God's eternal truth had become incarnated for the Salvation of humankind in events that happened once for all. He could not overlook historical events because he believed that in Christ the eternal had become flesh and dwelt among humankind. For John, the true meaning of the eternal could only be understood through the Revelation of God in the historical person Jesus Christ.[/b]
| 2008/5/29 2:10|
Thanks for the responses. I think I have it reconciled.
John the Baptist isn't saying he just saw the Spirit descend upon him, but that he has in the past.
Joh 1:32 And John bare record, saying, I [b]saw[/b] the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and it abode upon him.
Joh 1:33 And I [b]knew[/b] him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost.
Joh 1:34 And I [b]saw[/b], and bare record that this is the Son of God.
Possibly all this is actually after Jesus has returned from the wilderness and in turn has already been baptized by John and John has already seen the Spirit descend on him.
Jhn 1:36And looking upon Jesus as he walked, he saith, Behold the Lamb of God!
If anyone sees anything inconsistent with what I just said, please point it out.
| 2008/5/29 10:33||Profile|
| Re: John's record|
"Possibly all this is actually after Jesus has returned from the wilderness and in turn has already been baptized by John and John has already seen the Spirit descend on him."
Have been looking at this some and I think this is possible, that this account in John is of something taking place after the Lord was in the wilderness. It seems reasonable that He would take his disciples [b]after that[/b](that is, being in the wilderness), and not before?
It very much seems as though John is concerned with relating the testimony of John the Baptist here:
"And this is the record of John, when the Jews sent priests and Levites from Jerusalem to ask him, Who art thou?"
- John 1:19(KJV)
So far, I don't see any reason why this could not have occured after the Lord came from being in the wilderness.
Take care for now,
Christopher Joel Dandrow
| 2008/5/30 22:45||Profile|
It seems reasonable that He would take his disciples after that(that is, being in the wilderness), and not before?
That's a good point.
| 2008/5/31 13:24||Profile|