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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Should Christian Parents send their kids to public schools?

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Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

We homeschool our children. Mom teaches the curriculum in the day (God based) and I teach the Word of the Lord at night, followed by good old fashioned Bible stories at bedtime.

Most kids, Christian or not, who go to public school ARE affected/influenced by other kids and the system regardless of what we as parents try to do to stave that off.

You CAN tell a difference between a Homeschooled child and a public schooled child, from a Christian family or not. Every children that I know that goes to public school has disciple problems (That does not mean that your children do or that all children do, just the ones that I know do). These children are from some pretty solid Christian families, yet they still are affected by the system and other children.

Think about it. When we send our children into the lions den, the majority of the time they will be eaten by lions.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/5/28 19:22Profile









 Re:

To add to that though homeschooling in my opinion is always better than the public school system and that is where my husband and I do not agree but he is the head of this household and so it is God ordained.

My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.

I think of King David though and Absolom, even he had problems so we can only do as we are able and the rest is in the hands of the Lord who can do above and beyond all we can ever ask or imagine. He is the potter and I am just clay.

 2008/5/28 19:56
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re: why I chose homeschooling

My husband and I have 4 daughters. The 3 oldest all graduated from public highschool. The youngest daughter has been homeschooled since first grade. While the 3 older girls were in 9th, 10th,& 11th , I enrolled our youngest in kindergarten. The next year she had to go to school all day long and I noticed such a change in her mood, not really an attitude of rebellion as much as a "distance" between her and I. Now mind you, I had been experiencing that strange "distance" with our older girls who were in highschool, only it was in greater measure by the time they had been in school that many years. I did not as easily recognize it as it crept up on us. But when I finally saw the fruition of many years of being away from their parents for 8 or so hours daily, it was too late to remedy. When I began to see the same, but subtle fruits in our youngest I began to feel a panic in my heart. I was afraid that I did not have what it takes to homeschool my child, but at the same time I could see the fruits of "not doing that". I began to pray and ask God to help me know what to do. He was faithful in showing me through unmistakable signs and confirmations that this was Him laying this on my heart. I told my husband and he said "absolutely not!". He did not want me to homeschool our daughter, so I had to pray and trust God to change my husbands mind if this was really God's will. I can say thankfully that the Lord did just that and I took her out of 1st grade. She is almost 17 now and my husband tells everyone that it was the wisest thing we ever did! All 3 of our older daughters are married and 2 of them have children now. The oldest one is already homeschooling their 2 daughters, and the 2nd daughter is making plans to homeschool her new baby girl. All 3 older daughters said that after seeing their younger sister homeschooled and the positive results,compared to their experience in public school, that they would not even consider putting their children in public school. What I am trying so hard to convey (in my limited ability to comunicate without too many words :-P ) is not so much the academic side of this equation, but what some people would term...tying heartstrings. It has been my experience that if we keep the heart of our children, we have much more influence with them because they are not distanced from us. Public school cut so many of those heartstrings in our older girls that we lost much influence with them, and therefore they had more struggles in life and had to learn some important lessons the hard way, suffering some of God's chastisement, and some of the fruits of their own choices. My husband and I blame ourselves for much of their struggles. I realize that there are exceptions and circumstances in life that would prevent some from schooling their children at home (I say this with tenderness and compassion). God knows this, and He will cause all things to work together for our good.


That's my $0.02 worth! bonni


_________________
Bonni

 2008/5/28 22:44Profile









 Re:

Quote:
My kids attend a public school because my husband prefers the public school system over homeschooling. It's a challenge for me and for them and it takes alot of prayer but the enemy can put all kinds of roadblocks in your way no matter what you choose. Everything in life takes much prayer.



Most homeschool dads will tell you they didnt like the idea of homeschooling, and were against it at first. Most homeschool moms will tell you that they prayed fervently that the Lord would change their husband's heart toward homeschooling... and He did!

So pray for your husband if homeschooling is something you want to do. This "pre-ordained" stuff needs to be forgotten... thats just a cop out for most folks. I know hundreds of couples where God laid it on the WIFE to homeschool first, and then thru her prayers the heart of the husband was changed. Please dont just throw up your hands and say "God pre-ordained it, theres nothing I can do about it!" Thats a lie.

Quote:
My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.



I will pray that your husband will step up and be the spiritual leader in your home. I'm not trying to knock you husband because I dont know anything about him... but when a dad puts television (or anything else for that matter) above family devotions... he isnt leading as he should. So I will pray hard for him.

Being a spiritual leader in your home is hard work, which is why most men avoid it. But boy, once you get into the swing of it, it's the most rewarding thing in life.

Krispy

 2008/5/29 7:35









 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
My kids attend a public school because my husband prefers the public school system over homeschooling. It's a challenge for me and for them and it takes alot of prayer but the enemy can put all kinds of roadblocks in your way no matter what you choose. Everything in life takes much prayer.



Most homeschool dads will tell you they didnt like the idea of homeschooling, and were against it at first. Most homeschool moms will tell you that they prayed fervently that the Lord would change their husband's heart toward homeschooling... and He did!

So pray for your husband if homeschooling is something you want to do. This "pre-ordained" stuff needs to be forgotten... thats just a cop out for most folks. I know hundreds of couples where God laid it on the WIFE to homeschool first, and then thru her prayers the heart of the husband was changed. Please dont just throw up your hands and say "God pre-ordained it, theres nothing I can do about it!" Thats a lie.

Quote:
My battle at home right now is more with the television set. I won't watch it but my husband and kids enjoy it so it's a battle as far as devotions go. I get up to go to work every morning at 4:00 am so at the end of the day it's a major challenge for me. Every once in awhile though I am successful at steering them away but it's not easy.



I will pray that your husband will step up and be the spiritual leader in your home. I'm not trying to knock you husband because I dont know anything about him... but when a dad puts television (or anything else for that matter) above family devotions... he isnt leading as he should. So I will pray hard for him.

Being a spiritual leader in your home is hard work, which is why most men avoid it. But boy, once you get into the swing of it, it's the most rewarding thing in life.

Krispy



Thanks Krispy, I haven't given up. My oldest is turning 16 so it's almost too late for her but my youngest is 8, so there is still an opportunity there. What I meant by 'ordained' is that I'm under my husband but I know that public school is not the way to go if you can help it.



 2008/5/29 9:40
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4496


 Re:

Hello…

I appreciate all of the information that you provide about homeschooling. Like I said, my wife and I plan to homeschool our (future) children at least into junior high school. I can testify firsthand how the public school system slowly turned me from a belief in God as a child into an agnostic teenager. I was quite the scholarly student, and the tenets of evolutionary biology were instilled into our minds (even as alternatives were also taught in accordance to Virginia law at the time). However, evolution and chemistry just made too much “sense” to me – and I slowly began seeing Christianity as a fairy tale (especially given the compromise and worldliness of the large Assembly of God church that we attended at the time).

Everyone in Church thought that I was a Christian and my parents were extremely involved in the Church. I was even baptized after taking a class that included a verbal test that was meant to affirm my faith and understanding of the meaning of baptism. No one suspected that – not only was I not a real Christian – but I was a true agnostic in heart. My AP science courses in High School simply affirmed the evolutionary biology that I was taught in Junior High School. I came to a point where I was quite convinced that Christianity would one day go the way of Greek, Norse and Roman mythology.

However, my faith blossomed one week at a Summer Camp when I was still a teen. One day, I had to find a verse or passage to share with our devotional “share group.” Since I wasn’t really a Christian, I really didn’t know any verses off hand outside of the obvious Sunday School memory verses that I had long since dismissed as meaningless religious babble. However, shortly before the share group that morning, I opened my Bible to some words in red that sounded like a song that I had heard once. So I bookmarked it and headed to the morning share group.

Our share group met at a swimming pool. I sat there with nervous anxiety to share a passage that I had never really read before (and with the audacity to claim that it was one that had “ministered to me greatly in the past” – as was our assignment). When the time came, I opened my Bible to Matthew 11:28-30. I recited the words, “[i]Come to me…[/i]” After finishing the verse, no one seemed to think that it was anything special. I was just relieved for having shared my “meaningful passage” and once again fool my fellow share groupers with my faux faith. But for the rest of that day – those words haunted me. “[i]Come to me.[/i]”

That night, our service was held outdoors. As usual, I sat toward the back of the folding chair layout watching everyone else enjoy themselves in their zeal for the Lord. Yet this pounding in my heart wouldn’t go away. I was miserable. My faith had slowly, over the past few weeks, begun to bloom. A week earlier, I had even thought about what it would be like to really know God (if He truly existed). I wondered what it would be like to know Him, talk to Him and worship Him. I had long suspected that many Christians didn’t really believe in God (or were just putting on a show in Church). I thought to myself that if I ever truly met God – I would spend my entire life at His disposal. I remember thinking that I would sing and play music to Him like a song that I had in my head (and probably heard as a child even though I couldn’t place it – and turned out to be from Keith Green).

That night at Summer Camp, I was extremely miserable. I was dying inside. At the time, I could only describe it to myself as though I was extremely “dry” inside (with nothing soft left). I had never felt such misery before. I was a popular guy in school. I had good grades and came from a family that provided everything that we needed. I had planned my entire life – from graduating at the top to one day entering law school at Harvard, Columbia or some other Ivy League school. But that night, the entire emphasis of my life changed. I had an encounter with God (well, spiritually speaking).

Those words (“[i]Come to me[/i]”) kept playing over and over again deep inside of me. That night, I walked away from the “altar call” that was going on and walked out deep within this field there at the Summer Camp. For the first time in my life, I felt that I was truly standing before the Lord. I felt as if God spoke to me and told me, “[i]You don’t know me.[/i]” All of my masquerades were meaningless when I was standing before Him. I felt ashamed of who I was and for doubting His existence for so long. I told God that I would trade everything that I was – and everything that I would ever be – if I could just know Him and be His friend.

I remained out there in that open field for several hours (most of it spent either on my knees or prostrate as I lay out before God beneath the dark night and bright stars in the middle of nowhere in Texas. I remember feeling so “new” as I eventually walked back to the camp dorms (as the evening meeting had finished much earlier). I couldn’t stop weeping. I remember laying in my bunk that night overwhelmed with the knowledge that I actually knew and could communicate with the Creator of the Universe as His friend and child. I even longed to die so that I could already go and be with Him that very night – and see His face, and feel His arms hold me so tightly.

For the rest of the summer, I spent countless hours on my face before the Lord. I read the entire Bible through – more times than I could count (at least a dozen times). I just couldn’t get enough of the Lord! Everyone noticed the change – including my family and my local Church. It wasn’t that I did much differently (I had always been “forced” to go to Church while living under my parents’ rules); however, I eagerly sought the Lord. Instead of saying prayers, I prayed. Instead of singing songs, I worshipped. Instead of reading words, I learned from the very words of God as contained in the Bible. To live was truly Christ – and I couldn’t wait to one day breathe my last breath and finally see His face.

Two and a half months later, I returned to my public school. I made an effort to let every former friend know that I was different. It didn’t take long for my conversion to spread throughout my school. I had Varsity Basketball practice in the morning before school. Before practice, one of my friends told me about his trip to the Philippines during the summer. He asked, “[i]What did you do this summer[/i]?” I smiled and told him, “[i]I met God[/i]!” He looked awkward and confused. By the time I made it to the locker room, everyone on the basketball team knew. Most of the guys on the team were puzzled. Some of them had said that I was “the smartest guy that they had ever met.” Some of them had idolized me because of my grades, the amount of girls that liked me, the fact that I stood up for “nerds” and those others made fun of (I guess I was a “moral sinner”) and my general carefree attitude. Even on that first day, a couple of guys ridiculed me by saying that I had become a “Jesus freak,” but it actually scared most of them. I noticed that they tried to change the subject almost immediately. Before the year was over, I was able to lead 10 of the 15 guys on the team to the Lord.

I am glad that I attended a public high school as a Christian teen. While I might have never strayed from the Lord if I had been homeschooled as a child into my adolescent years, I think that I was able to be an important light in a dark place. My faith was pretty evident throughout the school. The students, teachers, administration – and even the janitors – were aware of my faith. Some people ridiculed me and called me names like “the walking Bible” or one of the leaders of the resident “God Squad.” For the most part, however, I was able to rise above any temptation that the devil wanted to throw at me. For me, Jesus was all that mattered. I still made good grades (and eventually graduated as #2 in my class). I was accepted at each of the schools for which I applied. However, my plans changed. I no longer wanted to be an attorney. I wanted to earn a degree in order to have better opportunities to provide for my eventual family, but I wanted everything that I did to be for the glory and honor of God.

I eventually attended public universities where I maintained my faith. I was awarded scholarships that paid for most of my undergraduate and even graduate education. I met my wife at a Christian student organization (Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship) while we were working on our bachelor’s degrees. I was able to help share the faith throughout my campus (even sharing the Gospel and praying with professors and administrators). Through my education, I was able to intern and eventually coop with NASA. While at NASA, I was chosen to attend several governors’ conferences – and was able to share my faith with governors, congressmen and officials in government. I even attended a private prayer meeting hosted by a Congressman and attended by several politicians. By the grace of God, I eventually graduated with honors with my two undergraduate degrees (including one in Electrical Engineering) and then went on to graduate with a perfect 4.0 from graduate school. I am currently completing my dissertation for a PhD in Public Policy at a respected university. Deep in our hearts, my wife and I know that we have a calling upon our lives. While we are waiting for this to come to fruition, we still have the opportunity to share our faith to everyone we come into contact with.

If I could do it all over, I would certainly change a few things. I have made some mistakes in my life that I wish that I would have avoided. I sometimes wonder what would have happened if I had been homeschooled by my parents. Would I have continued believing in God as I did as a child? Would I have avoided all of the mistakes that I made as a teenager?

I have met some wonderful homeschooled children who grew into very godly young adults. Some of them may have lacked as wide an education as they might have received in a public or private school, but they more than made up for it with pureness of heart. I guess this is the dilemma. Some of the homeschoolers that I know are so detached from the world that they just seem to struggle with the thought of eventually entering the workplace. Their hearts are so clean and innocent of the knowledge of this world and its system (“LIFE 101,” so to speak) that I wonder just how well that they will integrate into society with a job, family, etc… Of course, I know some other homeschoolers who are probably better prepared than anyone to face the trials and tribulations of life. I think this really has to do with the parents (the teachers) within each homeschool.

My oldest sister attempted to homeschool her young children, but lacked the time and perseverance necessary to do an adequate job. Don’t get me wrong – she really tried. But it is a huge commitment, and would require the complete dedication of both parents. Every day has the possibility of becoming a lazy day. It is up to the parent(s) to ensure that the day is not wasted. My sister was unable to make such a commitment, and she eventually enrolled them in a strict and highly competitive Christian school. They are doing extremely well.

In the last [i]Homeschool[/i] thread, I also asked about homeschool curriculum. Which curriculum is the most recommended? My wife had a bad experience with a particular curriculum (ACE - Accelerated Christian Education) that was used at a local private Church school and for homeschoolers from the same Church. My wife found that the curriculum was greatly outdated and insufficient of meeting normal educational goals, and the children easily cheated on their “PACEs.” One of my former churches used the same curriculum and it was a disaster for those who attended the high school. The average ACT score was a 15 (while the national average is a 21). One student even scored an 11 (which seems almost impossible given the ability to guess on every problem). The SAT scores were just as poor. The writing sections for each test displayed that the students from the school very vastly unprepared for college level essays. Yet all of the school’s standardized tests supposedly showed “above average” results for nearly every student in the school.

The ACT and SAT are the basis for entrance in most colleges and universities. Most schools, however, use a formula for determining entrance. While the scores on college entrance exams are one of the most important criteria, there are other criteria that also play a role. At my undergraduate school (which is respected but has an easy admission policy), a student must score at least a 21 on the ACT in order to be admitted – if he or she graduated from high school in the top 10%. If the student graduated in the top 25% of his/her high school class, then the student must earn a 22 on the ACT. If the student did not graduate in the top 25%, then he or she must earn a 24 on the ACT. The national average for the ACT is a 21. If I remember correctly, all students from non-accredited high schools must earn a 24 on the ACT to obtain unconditional admission. There is a similar criterion when using the SAT.

Like I stated earlier, my wife and I are almost certain to homeschool our children through elementary and junior high school. The development of children is so important at such a young stage. As Krispy affirmed previously, you would have to spend just as much time (or more time) sifting through all of the information that they are given (in classes, in between classes, on the bus and even in the cafeteria). This is probably just as time-consuming as the dedicated homeschool hours itself. I do know some children who attend public schools that are doing well. My wife is a public school teacher. Six of her siblings are public school teachers. However, they each attend very, very good school districts. All of my wife’s nephews and nieces attend public elementary schools. Yet their parents are extremely strict and do their best to instruct those children in the ways of the Lord. They also follow their children’s attitudes, beliefs and education very closely. Of course, they are all extremely concerned with the dire possibilities that could result.

I guess it comes down to personal preference. My wife and I would like to homeschool our children at least while they are young. Once they reach high school, however, we will likely allow them to be enrolled in a public high school. There is just so much that needs to be taught effectively in preparation for college. We realize that the education differs between college-to-college. A community college or an “open admission” public university does not always provide the same quality as a more scholastic-minded public school. We also feel that such things (including the name of the university upon the diploma) matters to potential employers or grad school admissions. Since this matters to us (regardless of how others view this as right or wrong), we think that a good public school or accredited private school might be better than one of us serving in such matters. Hopefully, however, we will have instructed them well enough in “the ways that they should go” as children that they will be able to shine the light of Christ as teenagers.

Anyway, I am extremely interested in the thoughts of others regarding the extent of homeschooling into high school (whether or not that is a good idea), the recommended curriculum for homeschools, and the ACT/SAT scores for high school homeschool graduates. Are there any statistics available to show this? I worked in a college admissions office during a freshman (work study) job. Some of the Christian School and homeschool scores were downright embarrassing. However, there were some homeschool scores that were pretty good. Are there independently verified statistics regarding the college entrance scores and admission statistics of students that were homeschooled throughout high school?

Thanks!!!

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/5/29 11:38Profile









 Re:

I see you did well in your English Lit class too! :-P

Krispy

 2008/5/29 11:41









 Re:

Quote:
Some of the homeschoolers that I know are so detached from the world that they just seem to struggle with the thought of eventually entering the workplace. Their hearts are so clean and innocent of the knowledge of this world and its system (“LIFE 101,” so to speak) that I wonder just how well that they will integrate into society with a job, family, etc… Of course, I know some other homeschoolers who are probably better prepared than anyone to face the trials and tribulations of life. I think this really has to do with the parents (the teachers) within each homeschool.



This is not as much a dilema as some think it is. We have folks in our family who insist we need to expose our children to the things of this world (i.e. [b]sin[/b]) because after all, they reason, they'll be exposed to it eventually anyway! What awful parents we are because our kids arent allowed to read or watch Harry Potter, or some wretched TV show.

Where is the Biblical principle for that?

This does not mean that we dont teach our children about sex, or other issues that the world has perverted. But scripture tells us in no uncertain terms that we are to be seperate from the world. That does not mean seperate as in holed up in the house. (I wish my wife and kids were home more! They're always running off to homeschool events, 4-H, etc etc... poor unsocialized souls!) We need to engage the culture we live in, but we are not to participate in the culture's sinful behavior.

So we teach our children how to live holy and godly lives... to hate sin and obey God... and there isnt anything the world has to offer in the way of temptation that isnt covered in the Bible. There is nothing new under the sun.

If we teach them the Bible cover to cover, and if they are truly saved... they will be more than prepared to go out into the world... and engage the culture.

The ultimate goal of homeschooling for my wife and I is not to raise kids who score high SAT scores, or read on a higher level than public school kids... altho that is one benefit of homeschooling. Our ultimate goal is to raise godly men who will win souls to Christ, and one day hear Him say "Well done good and faithful servant. Enter into My rest."

If we raise hyper smart kids, but they dont reach the above mentioned goal... she and I will have failed.

Krispy

 2008/5/29 11:50
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re:

I also think that there should be a distinction made between sons and daughters when the time comes to make decisions concerning the work place or college.


What our sons may be equiped to handle or be able to "hold up under" may not be the same for our daughters. I believe that God has ordained that our daughters stay under the protection of their parents until they are given in marriage to another man. I realize that there are some exceptions, but they should be just that, not the rule.


There are some excellent videos on Vision Forum concerning this, if anyone is interested. The actual video is called "The Return of the Daughters."

I guess the most important thing to consider is "is this the will of God for my son or daughter, or am I more concerned about them being wealthy than I am that they be where God has called them and fullfil His purpose for their lives."

Blessings bonni


_________________
Bonni

 2008/5/29 14:40Profile
BenBrockway
Member



Joined: 2006/5/31
Posts: 427


 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Quote:
Some of the homeschoolers that I know are so detached from the world that they just seem to struggle with the thought of eventually entering the workplace. Their hearts are so clean and innocent of the knowledge of this world and its system (“LIFE 101,” so to speak) that I wonder just how well that they will integrate into society with a job, family, etc… Of course, I know some other homeschoolers who are probably better prepared than anyone to face the trials and tribulations of life. I think this really has to do with the parents (the teachers) within each homeschool.



This is not as much a dilema as some think it is. We have folks in our family who insist we need to expose our children to the things of this world (i.e. [b]sin[/b]) because after all, they reason, they'll be exposed to it eventually anyway! What awful parents we are because our kids arent allowed to read or watch Harry Potter, or some wretched TV show.

Where is the Biblical principle for that?

This does not mean that we dont teach our children about sex, or other issues that the world has perverted. But scripture tells us in no uncertain terms that we are to be seperate from the world. That does not mean seperate as in holed up in the house. (I wish my wife and kids were home more! They're always running off to homeschool events, 4-H, etc etc... poor unsocialized souls!) We need to engage the culture we live in, but we are not to participate in the culture's sinful behavior.

So we teach our children how to live holy and godly lives... to hate sin and obey God... and there isnt anything the world has to offer in the way of temptation that isnt covered in the Bible. There is nothing new under the sun.

If we teach them the Bible cover to cover, and if they are truly saved... they will be more than prepared to go out into the world... and engage the culture.

The ultimate goal of homeschooling for my wife and I is not to raise kids who score high SAT scores, or read on a higher level than public school kids... altho that is one benefit of homeschooling. Our ultimate goal is to raise godly men who will win souls to Christ, and one day hear Him say "Well done good and faithful servant. Enter into My rest."

If we raise hyper smart kids, but they dont reach the above mentioned goal... she and I will have failed.

Krispy



I agree with you Krispy, but I have a "but," or what if" to what you have said - Like I mentioned in my earlier post, I ended up growing much stronger in the Lord being exposed to more junk then a fairly innocent guy could handle (going into the public school system)
Would it be totally off to relate the "going into the world" experience of public schools to that of Peter walking on the water? Sure, there is the fear of what could happen, but what about faith to overcome those fears and obstacles?

Yes, you can look at all the bad that could maybe take place in the public school system, but are you overlooking the potential good that could also take place? What if the "bad" never happend? Or take the example of Daniel going into the lion's den.


I think it would be a testiment of faith for a child (young adult) to stand strong in his/her faith in the midst of a fallen world.

I don't know. I see your point, but I've also experienced both worlds, so I see the advantages and disadvantages of both sides I s'pose.

Blessings Krispy!

Ben

 2008/5/29 15:07Profile





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