SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Was heaven defiled?

Print Thread (PDF)

PosterThread
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Was heaven defiled?

I read this today, and it made me think, why would the heavens need to be purified? any thoughts?


Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.


_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/27 18:04Profile
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re: Was heaven defiled?

I think that it means our consience...we are the "heavenly things". The blood of bulls and goats (which are earthly things)could only purify our temporary bodies, it could not cleanse the consience of sin. Christ who is our heavenly high priest is ever interceecing for us ...His blood purifying our heart eternally. The heavens don't need to be purified, we need to be purified in heart to be fit for heaven, through the better sacrifice...the blood of Jesus. Hope I worded that so that it makes sense to you brother.


blessings, bonni


_________________
Bonni

 2008/5/27 18:24Profile
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re:


just another thought ,

the heavenly things are the things that last forever...like our new resurrected body as compared to our earthly one. God didn't want to just cleanse our body (earthly things) with earthly sacrifices, He wants to cleanse our soul (heavenly things) with our Heavenly High Priest. So then we can be undefiled heavenly creatures now (we are seated in heavenly places with Christ) and for all eternity.

bonni


_________________
Bonni

 2008/5/27 18:37Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re: Was heaven defiled?

Yes, heaven was "defiled." For the angels who had been established to their proper order (e.g. Satan and those who rebelled with him) caused a breaking of the peace with God in heaven, violently abusing their proper place. Presently now, there are wicked forces in heavenly places (the principalities and powers), which effect spiritual problems here on earth. Thus, we look forward to a time when God not only creates a new earth, but a new heavens as well.... wherein dwelleth righteousness....



_________________
Jimmy H

 2008/5/27 18:37Profile
bonni
Member



Joined: 2005/8/9
Posts: 100
montana usa

 Re:

KingJimmy quoted..


Yes, heaven was "defiled." For the angels who had been established to their proper order (e.g. Satan and those who rebelled with him) caused a breaking of the peace with God in heaven, violently abusing their proper place. Presently now, there are wicked forces in heavenly places (the principalities and powers), which effect spiritual problems here on earth. Thus, we look forward to a time when God not only creates a new earth, but a new heavens as well.... wherein dwelleth righteousness....





Although this is a true statement I dont think that it applies to the scripture that hmmhmm is referring to. The better sacrifice (Christ) will not cleanse the rebellion of fallen angels, but God has reconciled us to Himself (we are able to have peace with God) through the cross...the better sacrifice. Hell will be the avenue to cleanse the universe of defilement for the devil and his angels, and all those who reject the sacrifice of God's Son.


blessings bonni


_________________
Bonni

 2008/5/27 18:49Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Was heaven defiled?

Hello, Christian. Here is an explanation. By God's grace, it will be helpful.

First, I will add some extra information into the text, and then expound.

Heb 9:23 "It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens [the "patterns" being the Mosaic ceremonial vessels of the tabernacle] should be purified [made ready to be used by the priest on behalf of the people] with these [sacrifices]; but the heavenly things themselves [God's grace unto men, and his presence in heaven] with better sacrifices than these.

The use of this word translated "purified" is interesting, because it describes the [b]legal preparation[/b] of the vessels used for God's service in the temple. The vessels were not themselves sinful, but in order for the priest to lawfully use these vessels to represent guilty people before God, sacrifices had to be made and applied to the vessels as a sign of the true atonement which guilty people need to stand righteously before God's holiness.

Because of God's holy standard, sinful men cannot justifiably enter and enjoy God's presence without having been cleansed of their sin. This cleansing came, once for all time, through the offering of Christ on the cross. Christ's blood prepares the way for men to enter the holiest of holies, God's presence. Just as blood from the animal sacrifices was applied to earthly temple vessels to justify their use on behalf of the sinful nation of Israel, even so the means of saving grace are secured by Christ's blood on behalf of his elect.

I understand the heavenly vessels to be the means of saving grace which work together to save men - such as election before time [Eph 1:4], the washing of regeneration unto faith [Eph 2:2,5-9], the application of Christ's death and resurrection to our spirits [Eph 2:13]; the adoption and ushering into the holiest of holy places with the Father [Eph 1:5, 2:14]. Christ is our priest who administers salvation, using these spiritual implements to bring us to right standing with God.

However, it would not be right for Him to apply these heavenly gifts to sinners, no, it would be impossible, unless the use of these means had been justified - "purified" - through the spilling of His blood on our behalf. This is what makes God both just, and the justifier of sinners.

Does this make sense?

By the way, Erin just finished a new CD. I'll let you know when it's online.

 2008/5/27 19:15Profile
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re: Was heaven defiled?

[Edit - *Whoops* I meant to PM] :-P

 2008/5/27 22:00Profile
hmmhmm
Member



Joined: 2006/1/31
Posts: 4991
Sweden

 Re:

Thank you all for your insights, I have not come to a final on what it meens, I think brother Jimmie is closest to what i think it means, but your view Michael seem to be also good, i find many hold similar views through history.

But God may give further light on this one day :-)

God bless you all,

PS: looking forward to Erins work, I do hope she will "dig" into the wonderful old hymns and "resurrect" them

:-) i am praying and hoping to start myself in not a to distant future if God allows to learn the art of playing a instrument, and if i should be granted this gift and learning to play, i would love to play and sing these old hymns, some of them we may never hear sung ever again in a church building.

Anyway.... :-) these hymns and songs make amazing devotional reading, how much more wonderful to lift them up in worship songs.

what ever songs Erin has this time, give her my gratitude for her willingness to freely give and share. she is a blessing,

I still listen to this often [url=http://www.theopenlife.com/music/erinalderson/era_volume_4/notallthebloodofbeasts.mp3]Not all the blood of beasts[/url]




_________________
CHRISTIAN

 2008/5/29 17:16Profile
Logic
Member



Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re: Was heaven defiled?

Quote:
hmmhmm wrote:
I read this today, and it made me think, why would the heavens need to be purified? any thoughts?


Heb 9:23 It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.

Actualy, it is only the "patterns" that need purified, not heaven it's self.
The word patterns is also "examples", "copies", "figures"...ect...
They need purified, because thay are made with hands 2Corinth 5:1, Heb 9:11,24.

 2008/5/29 20:16Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy