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crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Sir, we would see Jesus

"[i]Now there were certain Greeks among those that went up to worship at the feast:
these therefore came to Philip, who was of Bethsaida of Galilee, and asked him, saying,[b] Sir, we would see Jesus.[/b] Philip cometh and telleth Andrew: Andrew cometh, and Philip, and they tell Jesus. And Jesus [b]answereth them, saying[/b], The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a grain of wheat fall into the earth and die, it abideth by itself alone; but if it die, it beareth much fruit. He that loveth his life loseth it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal. If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will the Father honor.[/i]"

Joh 12:20-26

Always pleasantly amazed and at times puzzled when the Lord would seemingly deflect a question or better yet ask the real question as an answer. (Ie: "Why do you call me good?")

In the above reference that has been stalled in my thinking for awhile right at that point of asking: "Sir, we would see Jesus" it raised a whole host of other questions. What did they come to 'see'? What was their motive? What might they have asked of Him? And of course why did Jesus answer them the way He did?

Most certainly the Lord's hour had come, but the thought came to me, why did He choose this particular group (Greeks) and their inquiry to state this now and as a response to their request?

Was reading the following this morning and thought it may provide a clue:

"[i]For the Jews require a sign, and the [b]Greeks seek after wisdom[/b]:
But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the [b]Greeks foolishness[/b]; But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God. Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.[/i]"

1Co 1:22-25

Of course both Jews and Greeks were present at that time and being that the Lord '[i]knew mens hearts[/i]"....

Wouldn't want to try and stereotype these poor fellows, but stayed away from the commentaries to see what others thoughts might be.


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Mike Balog

 2004/6/24 12:25Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re: Sir, we would see Jesus

I have often mused on this 'answer' and could imagine Philip saying 'well that's very interesting but there are some Greeks here...'

but it is an answer, I think...

In his earthly walk He came for the lost sheep of the tribe of Israel, but through His falling into the ground and dying, 'Jesus' would be reproduced in the lives of Greeks, Canadians, English...

Seeds always produce their nature. Not an appoximation, but the same life visible again through all the world.

May He 'see of the travail of His soul, and be satisfied...'


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Ron Bailey

 2004/6/24 13:15Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Thanks Ron,

Quote:
I have often mused on this 'answer' and could imagine Philip saying 'well that's very interesting but there are some Greeks here...'



That's good.

Something else, "There were [b]certain[/b] Greeks,.."

Cheating into my [i]John MacArthur Study Bible[/i]
Ahem... :-)

He takes a shot at it:
"Most likely Gentile proselytes to Judaism who had come up for the Passover and who, in their desire to see Jesus, stood in direct antithesis to the attitude of the national leaders who desired to kill him. At the very moment when the Jewish leaders plotted to kill Him, Gentiles began to desire His attention."

Also interesting the inclusion of 'they came to Philip [i]who was from Bethsaiada of Galilee[/i]
(not to be confused with that [i]other[/i] Philip from...?) and Philip tells Andrew and they both go the Lord..just trying to form a picture here...

Quote:
but it is an answer, I think...


I think too, maybe, well I am working on it... :-)


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Mike Balog

 2004/6/24 16:44Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Sir, we would see Jesus

Quote:
Most certainly the Lord's hour had come, but the thought came to me, why did He choose this particular group (Greeks) and their inquiry to state this now and as a response to their request?



I think maybe Jesus simply saw that Gentiles coming to Him was evidence that the time was at hand for His glorification. Maybe He was just thinking out loud, looking to the joy set before Him of bringing many sons and daughters (including Gentiles) into the Father's family, knowing that only His death would accomplish it.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2004/6/24 20:01Profile
Jimm
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re: Who was of Bethsaida..

Happy people!

I think InTheLight’s statement was a good one about it being the time of the gentiles.

Maybe this is not relevant at all but, I found it interesting that the fact that it was mentioned that they came to Philip “who was of Bethsaida”. It was already established that Philip was from Bethsaida and it is not consistent (as I see it) to bring it up here for no reason. For instance, it was not brought up in Chapter 6:5-7 or in Chapter 14:8-9.

Under this premise, I came to one main conclusion: John wanted to draw our attention to the text where Philip is referred to as being of Bethsaida (Chapter 1:44-51). This is where he (Philip) brought Nathaniel to Jesus, “51 And He said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, hereafter you shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of Man."

This ascending and descending of angles on Jesus, is in a sense glorifying him. As he says in verse 23 of our text (chapter12), “23 But Jesus answered them, saying, "The hour has come that the Son of Man should be glorified.”

James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/6/24 23:55Profile
cherem
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Joined: 2004/6/25
Posts: 1


 Re: Sir, we would see Jesus

Perhaps Jesus realized the Greeks wanted to see Him - in the natural. They wanted to investigate the curiosity. What does He look like? How smart is He?

Jesus further realized in order to see Him fully and in reality, one must look at His work - his death and resurrection and experience His resurrection life in His body of believers. To see Jesus requires being born again. His physical appearance was of little importance. They really had to wait to see the REAL Jesus.

Huh??

 2004/6/25 0:41Profile
Jimm
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 God point Cherum

Hey Cherum!

That is a very good point your have brought up. How does the Gospel according to John start? In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… How does this introduction in Chapter 1link with the passage here? As you put it, “Jesus further realized in order to see Him fully and in reality, one must look at His work - his death and resurrection and experience His resurrection life in His body of believers. To see Jesus requires being born again. His physical appearance was of little importance. They really had to wait to see the REAL Jesus.”

James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/6/25 1:32Profile
Matthew2323
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Joined: 2004/5/17
Posts: 235
Colorado

 Re: Philip and Andrew

Quote:
Also interesting the inclusion of 'they came to Philip who was from Bethsaiada of Galilee
(not to be confused with that other Philip from...?)



The "other" Philip may have been the Philip introduced in Acts 6. By the time John had written this Gospel, the book of Acts had been circulated. Perhaps John wanted to prevent confusion. I think James (Jimm) made an important comment as well in regards to his birthplace being mentioned.

It is also interesting that Philip went to Andrew. For we see in John 1:40-41, that Andrew's first response to Jesus was to tell his brother, Simon. Philip and Andrew had a bond in bringing people to Jesus. I think there is a lesson in there for us.


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Matthew

 2004/6/25 11:07Profile
Jimm
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 The significance of Greece

Mathew2323

Thanks for that one…I did think about the significance of the other Philip (one of the seven servants in Acts) but I found it hard to believe that anyone would suddenly assume that he was the Philip John was mentioning here, especially since the character of Philip (the apostle) had already been established in the book. In addition, it leaves the question, why mention it here (and not in 6:5-7 or 14:8-13)?

Philip is not mentioned by name in any of the other recordings of the gospel. The “beloved disciple” mentions him and his birthplace twice (John1:43 and John12:20-2). The other two times he is simply Philip (6:5-7 or 14:8-13). He (John) establishes his (Philip) character but I am not sure if it was deliberate… all of Philip’s communications have Jesus involved in them saying or doing something profound.

Still, going back to the original question…The reference in Isaiah 66 in interesting, “18 For I know their works and their thoughts: it shall come, that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come, and see my glory. 19 And I will set a sign among them, and I will send those that escape of them unto the nations, to Tarshish, Pul, and Lud, that draw the bow, to Tubal, and Javan, to the isles afar off, that have not heard my fame, neither have seen my glory; and they shall declare my glory among the Gentiles….these areas describe SW coast of Spain, NE Asia minor and more importantly, [b]Greece[/b]

James


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James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2004/6/26 5:31Profile





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