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Discussion Forum : General Topics : your best life now; your worst eternity forever. Joel Olsteen,the flower of TBN theology.

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 Re: amen to you as well.

The hireling Jesus spoke of is exactly the parable that sums up what I was saying. Such simple truth, as sad as it is.

 2008/5/19 13:42


you people have it all wrong.
Yes, the love of money is the root of all evil but the appreciation of money is another thing altogether.

 2008/5/19 14:18


I was not talking of love nor appreciation... I never used those words.

If a preacher makes an implication, even to the smallest degree, through scripture that if one gives money to their ministry will receive a return such in such fold, this is in error.

Perhaps before we proceed you should define EXACTLY what the difference is between love and appreciation and how this translates to the discussion.

 2008/5/19 14:28


Rev enue.. I took the bait.... clever!

 2008/5/19 14:53


I have heard Joel Osteen before, I've read quite a bit about him... and I'm not surprised by his lack of Biblical discernment. He strikes me as being quite ignorant of Scripture, frankly. He is a motivational speaker, not a Bible teacher. The only problem is he does not motivate people from a scriptural frame of reference... it is, in fact, a very humanistic frame of reference... what makes ME feel good.

And scripture warns of this.


 2008/5/19 16:13

Joined: 2008/5/19
Posts: 3
Louisiana, USA


If we believe the same creed why can't we get along?

The Nicene Creed (ca AD 325-381) written during the 4th century A.D. was an attempt to unify the Christian church. It is the creed accepted by all three major branches of Christendom including Protestant, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Christians.

Probably most if not all Christians who I know, regardless of their denomination, would agree that we all believe what this creed declares.

1 Cor. 8:6 For us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

Romans 14:1 says Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters and James 4:11 says Speak not one against another, brethren.

Since Christians are brethren, they should not defile nor defame one another. It is required of us that we be tender of the good name of our brethren; where we cannot speak well, we had better say nothing than speak evil. What is this but to raise the hatred and encourage the persecutions of the world, against those who are engaged in the same interests with ourselves, and therefore with whom we ourselves must stand or fall? (Matthew Henry)

To speak evil of one another is what the men of the world do, and from them it is expected; but for the saints to speak evil one of another, to sit and speak against a brother, and slander an own Fathers's son, is barbarous and unnatural. (John Gill)

1Co 12:4-6 Now there are varieties of gifts, but the same Spirit; and there are varieties of service, but the same Lord; and there are varieties of activities, but it is the same God who empowers them all in everyone.

1Co 12:12 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

1Co 12:15 If the foot should say, "Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body," that would not make it any less a part of the body.

1Co 12:26 If one member suffers, all suffer together; if one member is honored, all rejoice together.

If you think your particular brand of church is the only one and everyone else is going to hell you make yourself out to be a false accuser of the brethren and a cultist. Some Protestants accuse Catholics of doing this when not all of them do, yet they do the same thing to the Catholics, attempting to exclude them from heaven.

This is what Brennan Manning says:

The conversion by concussion method of evangelism, with one sledgehammer blow of the bible after another, betrays the basic respect for the dignity of the individual and is utterly alien to the gospel imperative to speak the truth in love.

Whenever religion shows contempt or disregards the rights of persons, even under the noblest pretexts, it draws us away from reality and God.

The way we are with each other is the truest test of our faith. How I treat a brother from day to day, how I react to the sin scarred wino on the street, how I respond to interuptions from people I dislike may be a better indication of my reverence for life than the antiabortion sticker on my car.


 2008/5/19 16:31Profile

 Re: Creed

Troy... thats all fine and good... but it's interesting to me that you favor particular verses (probably because you like Osteen, and thats ok)... but you ignore what Paul said:

[b]Romans 16:17[/b] [i]Now I beseech you, brethren, [b]mark them[/b] which cause divisions and offenses [u][b]contrary to the doctrine[/b][/u] which ye have learned; and [b]AVOID THEM.[/b][/i]

[b]2 John 1:10-11[/b] [i]If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, [b]receive him not[/b] into your house, [b]neither bid him Godspeed[/b]: For he that biddeth him Godspeed is [b]partaker of his evil deeds[/b].[/i]

You see, Paul and Jesus had waaaaay more to say about false teachers and prophets, and were very clear that we were to seperate from them... and have nothing to do within. And Pauls own personal example that he set for us was to warn others about these false teachers and prophets.

But some say we shouldnt judge them. However, scripture never once suggests that, in fact, scripture demands that we DO judge their teachings... and by seperating (avoiding) them we are to judge them as not of the brethren.

It's nice to be all sunshine and lollypops, but thats not the scriptural way to handle false teachers.


 2008/5/19 16:51

Joined: 2008/5/19
Posts: 3
Louisiana, USA


I do not favor Osteen and I do not ignore Paul. As I have stated in a previous post: I have noticed that most church people today would rather hear the word peace, even if it were a lie, than hear the word judgment even if it were the truth. There is a reason the largest church in America is the largest church in America - they teach what the people want to hear which is nice, flowery positive all the time humanism but it is not the gospel of God.

John Gill said that other denominations, though they may differ from us on some subjects, may give evidence that they are recognised by God as His, and where there is this evidence, we should neither despise nor judge them, which is why I'm not so concerned with Brother Osteen fraternizing with Catholics. But what is he preaching? Obviously it is far removed from what his father preached, which was accountability for sin and repentance.

So many people today are chasing after signs and wonders, emotional hype, or some kind of feel good humanism that will make them feel better about themselves, when God wants us to humble ourselves and pray and turn from our wicked ways and seek His face.


 2008/5/19 18:06Profile

 Re: Creed without true worship is not faith, but a bright mask of it.

You confuse unity of the spirit with an agreement of the mind, and to be honest, your reply sounded more like the definition of a papal bull than a cry for peace. [original post]

The Roman doctrines of the lordship and ascension of Mary, as the Queen of heaven, and mediator to all mankind have always , and will always be nothing less than Pagan in the eyes of true Christianity. That only is the beginning to a vast Parade of blasphemous doctrines that the Bible and the Spirit reject, including of course, the Lordship of the Pope, the bishop of Rome, as being the vicar of Christ on Earth.

Any number of ministers on this site could carry on and on, but what the good ? "Come out from among them, and be separate". This may sound cruel to the Catholic, but unless he repents to bears holy fruit, worshipping the true God of Abraham, through Jesus's sacrifice alone, he will be lost, just like me.

If you cannot accept that, you are still my friend, though sadly, you are NOT my brother. We would have to have the same Father for that. Tom

 2008/5/19 18:15

Joined: 2008/4/20
Posts: 201

 Re: Creed

hello troy .i do not type well so excuse the poor typing. God calls the deep to the deep ,learning of theology correctly ,as the Father of my lord Jesus Christ means it ,is always in keeping with our nature and relations,is always reasonable, that's why satan is a master deceiver in the area of our nature, and how we our supposed to relate to one another.The problem with being a teacher is that they recieve the greater damnation when wrong, and without power from on High to be witnesses unto all men, universally , of course .without power,full of holy Ghost unction, we our nothing.D L Moody's book 'the secret of power 'teaches on this very well.the majority of decent Christians do not stay in this power, abiding in Christ, let alone the truely ridiculous false jesus followers of Copeland and hinn .We with power from on high know the difference between the two jesus' being peached in the world today . Jesus said that in the last days many will be saying hear i am , and hear i am but do not go with them for i will not be there. Jesus also said " do you think I came to bring peace on the earth ? no .. but ,rather a division, I have a babtism to be babtised with and how the fire has started and how I am straightened in it...Glory glory glory the babtism in the fire!! straighiened Jesus!! and it is all i need ,we need to get straightened in God Himself and devided from every evil and false way . Then we'll have all the power to witness and prophesy to all who are lost and to reason with all we come in contact with to the truth and thier errors as Jesus did on the earth in His ministry.Jesus was always saving some and pissing many people off becuase He brought a devision ,through His babtism, and that fire still burns today not in many. but in a few,Jesus lived unto all righteousness ,universally, no respecter of persons He told them the truth ,all the time,without exception,.Get on fire !! Get babtised in the Holy Ghost ... and ... Fire!! and stay there not just for 30 seconds on sunday morning .. all the time .. why we can stay in the fires of His anointing all the time . every waking moment . oh how devide and staightened in Love we,d be . whoever reads this needs to know it's true it's the Fathers good peasure to give us the babtism in the Holy Ghost and Fire all the time that all would be testimony of Jessu' great Love in the Spirit of Prophesy... desire that you prophesy.. this is the only way the real Truth can march on and does march on

Clint Demoret

 2008/5/20 18:15Profile

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