SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : Great article on “election” by J.C. Ryle – It's worth reading...it may surprise you.

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 )
PosterThread
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:
I didn't lump all Calvinists together...hence the 1, 2, 3.



I understand the 1,2,3…thanks for clarifying :-)

Sorry for not being more clear. I was speaking of the ones that say,’ God’s ways are not our ways’, that were lumped together in the first (1) category with those that ignore certain scriptures.

Quote:
The scriptures are not paradoxical, but rather understood when read plainly.



**edit** added content

I myself find paradox and mystery in the Bible and I am not a Calvinist. Maybe my understanding will change as I grow in the Lord.

I enjoyed this article and hope others read it and enjoy it as well.

Grace and peace

I will take my leave with the words of A.W. Tozer who said:

“God will not hold us responsible to understand the mysteries of election, predestination and the divine sovereignty. The best and safest way to deal with these truths is to raise our eyes to God and in deepest reverence say, “O Lord, Thou knowest.” Those things belong to the deep and mysterious Profound of God’s omniscience. Prying into them may make theologians, but it will never make saints.” A.W.Tozer - The Pursuit of God


_________________
TJ

 2008/5/31 18:44Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

Quote:
Do you believe the Bible is without paradox?



But of course...the very gospel is a paradox, my brother!


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2008/5/31 20:31Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Sorry for removing the question. I was just not wanting to get into anything :-)

Grace and peace brother


_________________
TJ

 2008/5/31 20:33Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

You are not a Calvinist and yet you have been heartily defending their core doctrines for the past 2-3 weeks? interesting...


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2008/5/31 21:05Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:

BeYeDoers wrote:
You are not a Calvinist and yet you have been heartily defending their core doctrines for the past 2-3 weeks? interesting...



I have only been involved in threads dealing with very limited aspects of the doctrines of grace and I would not call myself a defender of “Calvinism” even though I may believe in some of the issues being discussed.

If you were to ask a room of one hundred people to picture a clown in their minds do you think any of them would look alike? Oh, I’m sure there would be similarities but I bet there would be a vast array of difference. I hope you get my point. I believe the same can be said of Calvinism…ask a hundred people…get a hundred answers.

I know it is positively stereo typical…but I truly believe that many of those who come against Calvinism do not fully understand it (and I am not claiming to be an authority). I have no problem with simply not believing it or differing opinions but the gross misrepresentation is saddening. It has been so completely and utterly perverted that many only know it through beastly caricatures. Many preachers and authors have not helped in this regard.

I am not fond of labels and would object to being saddled with the handle “Calvinist” even if I were one. Man has cast his labels from the beginning…I don’t think it will end any time soon. I do see much truth in what is called reformed/Calvinistic theology…not from studying theology…but from studying the Word. I am young in the Lord. Perhaps one day I will stand in one camp more than the other and will be placed under one of those “labels”, but it will only be for the sake of theological discussion…I prefer to simply be called a Christian.

Grace and peace my brother


_________________
TJ

 2008/5/31 23:05Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re:

I too hate labels. I don't even understand how we think that after 1500 years, Calvin is the one that got it right. Or Arminius. Or whomever. Calvin himself was a "4-pointer" by the end of his life, so it doesn't even make sense. Many "Calvinists" are 4- and 3-pointers, so they basically only pick the ones that they think are compatible with scripture, and end up throwing out most of what he taught anyway. I think the reason Calvinism is so "misrepresented" is because of what you said...everybody has their own brand, so no matter what is said, you can be "putting words in their mouths". If some baptists can reject 2 points because they're not biblical, I can reject all of them.

If must choose a label for me, call me a zero-point Calvinist
:-P


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2008/5/31 23:38Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re:

Quote:

BeYeDoers wrote:
I would agree that it was "balanced" but it is not consistent.



I am not attempting to rekindle…just thought this word from C.H. Spurgeon fit the topic of inconsistency well and felt it would be a good edition to the thread.

Charles Spurgeon On August 1, 1858, sermon entitled, "Sovereign Grace and Man's Responsibility."

"I see in one place, God presiding over all in providence; and yet I see and I cannot help seeing, that man acts as he pleases, and that God has left his actions to his own will, in a great measure. Now, if I were to declare that man was so free to act, that there was no precedence of God over his actions, I should be driven very near to Atheism; and if, on the other hand, I declare that God so overrules all things, as that man is not free enough to be responsible, I am driven at once into Antinomianism or fatalism. That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring ....You ask me to reconcile the two. I answer, they do not want any reconcilement; I never tried to reconcile them to myself, because I could never see a discrepancy.... Both are true; no two truths can be inconsistent with each other; and what you have to do is to believe them both."


_________________
TJ

 2008/7/17 18:51Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Affiliate Disclosure | Privacy Policy