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 There's no cross in the "river". Bam!


As I considered the obvious flaws of Lakeland and Bentley, I thought about flesh running wild, all in the name of blessing. The money lust, the cackling laughter, the writhing contortions, and demonic apparitions that glide about to bring messages and gifts, a scripture came to me and resounded;

"For many walk, of whom I have often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the [b] CROSS[/b] of Christ,

"Whose end is their destruction, whose god is their appetite, whose glory is their shame, [b]who set their minds on earthly things[/b]"

The true gospel brings us as son's and daughters, through Heavens gate, as we become like and as Jesus. This is accomplished by our obedience to submit to

[b]our [/b] cross, a part of Jesus's cross that we must bear, in order to know him, and to be made like Him, in order to enter Heaven. This is our [b]wedding garment[/b], our path to holiness.

I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them but rubbish, in order that I may [b]gain[/b] Christ, [b]and be found in Him[/b] Not having my own righteousness,


That I may know him, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being conformed to his death, [b]in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead![/b]

The issue with God is that we become as his Son, transformed into beings that love as Himself. This must accompany, in our submission and disciplines with Him, a denial, and willing death of ourselves, as we say your will, not mine. Their is real suffering with this submission to the Father. It is the only way we can attain Heaven, as He sees His Son in us.


Lakeland, Bentley, Olsteen, TBN, and most of Christianity in America today, are enemies to this kind of thought , and doctrine. They enjoy their lives, and vehemently oppose anything that would remove them from enjoying it. [b]BAM![/b]

 2008/5/16 8:27
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: There's no cross in the "river". Bam!

Quote:
most of Christianity in America today, are enemies to this kind of thought, and doctrine.



I have come to the conclusion that the most dangerous place a person can be on any Sunday morning is attending a 'worship service'!...which means it will require Holy Spirit direction to find one where TRUTH is revered and taught.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/5/16 23:16Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re: There's no cross in the "river". Bam!

The true preaching of the cross is just as absent in the "deeper life" teachings (which are actually 'shallow life' teachings based on Hebrews 6), as well as the pseudo-holiness messages that some seem to have as their sole source of spiritual nutrition. The true preaching of the cross that the apostle Paul speaks of is not a morbid over emphasis on "dying daily" (which is a horrific and binding misinterpretation of scripture) or an unbalanced emphasis on taking up one's own cross. There certainly is room for such preaching, however, I do not believe that was an emphasis of NT preaching. When Paul speaks of the preaching of the cross it was probably something more like this:

GALATIANS 3:1
1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was [u][i][b]clearly portrayed among you as crucified?[/b][/i][/u]

Paul had as his custom (Acts 17:2-3) an emphasis on the suffering and resurrection of Christ. That was the preaching of the cross! CLEARLY PORTRAYING Jesus Christ as crucified! Many times when I hear the "preaching of the cross" referred to by those in extreme keswick or "deeper life" style teachings, they are speaking of something altogether different. They are speaking of an emphasis on the cross of the believer. That is important! Certainly do not get me wrong! There is certainly a scriptural principle for daily taking up our cross and following him. However, this morbid idea of dying daily (which is a misinterpreatation of 1 Cor 15:31 which is said in the context of facing persecution and death daily. Compare with Rom 8:36 and Psalms 44:22. The same type of language is used in describing facing death and dangers daily) does not jive with much other NT scripture.

Consider the following:

ROMANS 6:6-13
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

The old man "HAS BEEN" crucified with Christ! Past perfect tense! The emphasis here is on LIVING in Christ not dying daily to sin. The emphasis is on living in Christ not dying to get there. Even resisting unrighteousness and not yielding ones self to sinful behavior is given in the context of being those who are "alive from the dead", not those who are dying to self.

I think somewhere, in our sincere and genuine desire to be holy before God, we lost the message of the cross. When is the last time we heard a message like Jonathan Edwards' "The Sufferings of Christ"? Once you see the depths of the cross, I promise sin will lose it's lustre and power over your life. Often times, we only emphasize OUR need to die and resist. From my experience, this actually gives strength and power to sin. The reason being is that it wrongly recognizes sinful nature as still holding power over the believer. Paul spoke of it as a defeated foe. Yet we seem to believe it experiences frequent resurections or simply that it is still alive and well within us.

Yes we need to be holy! Yes we need to be pure! But let's preach the true message of the Cross! Let's do like John the Baptist and cry "Behold the Lamb!"!

Thanks for reading!

God bless!
Jeff


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Jeff

 2008/5/17 0:19Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re: There's no cross in the "river". Bam!

Brother Tom,
I forgot to say this...
Not that I agree 100% with all of Todd's teachings, I can certainly say that he is far from an enemy of the school of thought mentioned by you. He is far from comparable to Joel Osteen. You may disagree with his teachings on the supernatural, but his teachings on repentance and taking up ones cross is stronger than most that I've heard. I'm sure this has been heard by his critics, since they will certainly only study the teachings of his which prove their point. I'm not trying to be critical or harsh to you my dear brother, please don't misunderstand me. Sometimes, I just get so heartsick and almost nauseated from the attitudes of some who claim to discerning. It seems since Lakeland, everyone has stopped spending time in the presence of Jesus, hearing His voice and knowing Him, and have instead simply become vehement opposers of this movement. I've seen about 100 Andrew Strom wannabee's and self-appointed discerners that I want to cry! Even if there is some truth to what they're saying (which is typically not the case) I tire of the attitude and lack of fellowship and sweetnes.

Just my thoughts,
God bless my brother,
Jeff


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Jeff

 2008/5/17 0:43Profile
Talkn2u
Member



Joined: 2006/12/31
Posts: 196


 Re:

Jeff,
I say this with much Christian love:
What makes Deception affective, is when a sliver of truth or what can be misconstrude as truth, is sprinkled in.
That is why people are left confused.
Bonnie

 2008/5/17 1:02Profile
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

I couldn't agree more with your statement...


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Jeff

 2008/5/17 1:35Profile









 Re: Wild Bill Hickock got religion!

Ginnyrose:

I had to laugh at your comment. A bittersweet and short one though, as I pondered the truth and awfulness of your insight.

This is what we have come to. To the point of ridicule from all, and especially, and mostly from those with discernment. As the prophet said, "when they call light darkness, and darkness light.", speaking of the days of storm and darkness. We are here, sadly. Still, there is some ironic humour in it, as many [most] of these organizations believe that they are battling religion, and are on the cutting edge of Christian ministry, and preach it.

Kind'a like shooting yourself in the foot, with an offering plate in your hand. 8-)

 2008/5/17 11:02
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

I'm sorry that you find truth humorous. God bless you my dear brother.
-Jeff


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Jeff

 2008/5/17 11:10Profile









 Re: Two Crosses.

Jeff
Paul spoke, "Behold, I die [b]daily[/b],"He also said, "Death [b]works[/b] in me, but Life in you. 2 cor:...Jesus said, pick up [b]your[/b] cross daily. What were they referring to?

Paul spoke of "mortifying the body of death>", and "Who will deliver me [b]from[/b] this body of death?"

There are TWO distinct crosses in the New Covenant that are taught, and equally important to obtain Salvation, and enter Heaven's gate.

1: Jesus's supreme and willfull sacrifice.
2. The cross he commanded us to bear [b]daily[/b] and "follow" Him.

The denial of either of these, will lead us into a position of separation from Him.


I agree with you about a propensity unto morbidity, IF we always behold the death side. We can tend to look at our suffering as a payment to God, to justify our salvation. This is extremely subtle, and worthy to note, and i appreciate you doing so. However, OUR Cross , as a doctrine to gain Christ has become horribly mangled and denied by the same pagan spirits that plagued Paul's ministry, and he did make "A big deal" out of teaching it.


I admit, we lack the joy end; The resurrection end. "There was GREAT JOY on the disciples."

Paul never saw the "old man" "as a defeated foe.", and I do not understand how you could say that, while you quote scripture about our cross.

Paul saw his Satanic nature as a living enemy, that must me killed each and every day, even as Jesus commanded.

You are right though, in that we should never focus on this process, but on the risen Saviour, in death, or in life.

 2008/5/17 11:33
FireinmyBones1
Member



Joined: 2004/1/17
Posts: 219
Michigan

 Re:

Dear brother,

My last comment to you was far to sarcastic and the Lord would not allow me to carry on with my day without first apologizing to you. If we don't see eye to eye that is no reason for me to throw out sarcastic comments that make myself feel justified. So, I'm sorry!

Now concerning our cross...I'm going out the door right now, so I will post a response later this evening. Thank you for your gracious reply brother.

God bless,
Jeff


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Jeff

 2008/5/17 11:42Profile





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