Krispy, I believe your hearing the spirit on this one. how many times, when there has been discussion or conflict, does someone stand behind the great quote , of their favorite theologian, to express their own heart? Often, the moderators do this more than anyone.


I suppose this has it's place, and surely is a safer place and wall of defence than speaking our very own ideas, but it is surely Not a more authentic place in the ministry of the Word.

We can shovel off our own responsibility by doing so , and possibly cover our own lack of real understanding at the same time. When we reveal our comprehension through our anointing from God, we become transparent. Most professional ministers avoid this at all costs, as they often avoid just being a brother, because they feel they would lose respect, or because they just don't have the goods to deliver in Godly maturity.

It is also a position that will display a face of understanding , without the cross; death and resurrection, that produces it. This is typical with theologians, and I'm sorry to say, with most of the Pastorate today.[clergy]

Another major issue is the fallacy that understanding something in your mind, is the exact same as understanding something in your heart, or spirit. They are two different things, totally. so, if a man, with education, can understand, with a more broad view than his less educated brother, his contention is that his ministry, and opinion holds the superior weight. It becomes a matter of ascendancy, which drives the gears of the religious spirit.

Paul spoke, about a similar issue, when the church drifted into the coverings of strong leaders and their personal doctrinal positions.

" Who is Paul?,,Who is Appolos?"




[b]nothing[/b]]


" but it is Christ who died for you."

Imagine fellowship with your wife and children, always quoting your rich neighbor when you speak. Your family may as well move in with him!; of course, this is preposterous. ..But so is the idea that our thoughts and expressions are necessarily real, and authentic, when we quote another's faith and thoughts to communicate ours.

There is a place for quotes; something well said, or communicated. After all, this site is about historical ministry that we can be fed and protected by, and is wonderful in that respect. The issue arises though, when we lose our personality in the greater mind of another.



[b]Let us all lose our personalities in the mind of Christ![/b]

Brothertom... I think you're right on the money.

I think what we're seeing is indicative of the American church at large. People spend more time reading books by author/teachers than they do studying the Bible. I've met people who will rifle thru books like they were candy... but rarely ever open their Bible.

Nothing wrong with books, but it is completely out of balance to be like that. I was like that, and it led me into a lot of foolish deception when I was first born again.

Personally, I think Christian bookstores are enabling this problem, with their Top 10 book lists, and no discernment what so ever about what books they sell... and charging an arm and a leg for books that you can get a few months down the road at a yard sale for 50 cents.

Krispy

This particular subject has been one of the major topics in our household for many years, as we have seen many people become a follower of a particular person and their teaching only to watch that "teacher" fall and the follower become confused about their faith... etc...

Yet, merely quoting a past man of faith who has proven by a life of faith that his words are not meant to glorify himself, rather they were spoken to glorify God and His Son Jesus Christ, is not the same thing as using someones unscriptural or extra scriptural teachings as a basis of doctrine or thought.

Of course there is always a danger in human beings looking at the speaker as though his words came from his own source, or thinking more highly of another person than they ought because of their position. Both of which Paul taught against and even corrected crowds of people who tried to worship he and Barnabas because of a miracle healing. (Novel thought huh? "Why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you...!!" Acts 14:14

But when someone else says something that has stuck in my heart and helped to change the course of my life, I will probably quote them and say:
my husband has said this to me time and time again,
I love what I remember Leonard Ravenhill saying; or when I read this hymn, or this book, or this poem, or devotional, or commentary, that this person who loved the Lord in some past time wrote it convicted, encouraged, challenged, or even made me think! and often the Holy Spirit broke my heart and gave me another way of seeing something I needed to see more clearly by those that have struggled with the same things I struggle with, and God has helped them overcome!

"Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses,...."

We got to hear Corrie TenBoom who struggled with forgivness and overcame...
We got to read Watchman Nee who was imprisoned for his faith and lost his family due to oppression of an enemy, yet pursued God with his whole heart...
Of the Wesley brothers, Isaac Watts, the list goes on and on...
".. [b]let us[/b]lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us,[b] and let us run with endurance [/b] the race that is set before us,"
It's still our responsibility to run the race, thank the Lord for Corrie Ten Boom, but now it's my turn, and I need to follow Christ and hear His voice and not follow another, yet balance that with the ministry of the body of Christ, and the respect that they deserve.
[b]looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith[/b]"
Yet, another person should never take a position in the heart of another person that ONLY belongs to Christ and the Holy Spirit, our teacher.

Thanks for the subject! It really does require a great balance!

Love in Christ,
Lori

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Lori Salyer

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Mike Balog