I have seen a lot of nonsense in the church, but this tops it all.
This is false fire from heaven.
And he performed great and miraculous signs, even causing fire to come down from heaven to earth in full view of men.
2 Thessalonians 2:9-12 (NIV)
9The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, 10and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.
I have seen Todd a couple of years ago in the UK and I somehow knew that this guy is up to a lot more.
If you critisize his outfit and ornaments, his supporters will quickly brand you as legalist who judges people by outside things. Why does he hold on to his rings, piercings and gothic apparral with hellfire flames and magic symbols? Surely this must mean something to him, perhaps they are fetishes that "carry the annointing"
I wonder if you would make an altar call in
Fakeland - sorry Lakeland for those people who want to bear reproach outside the camp or who want to have fellowship with Christ's sufferings you would not get a single soul.
I can imagine that this "annointing" may even appear as a strong desire to serve Christ. The question is which Christ.
A can see that soon those who are entangled in this movement and other streams of apostate Christianity will turn against Jesus true followers and persecute them - as history has proven.
I myself was deceived by these movements and sermon on SI helped me to come out of this error.
I confronted the elders of my former church and they did not understand, so we left.
We have to help those who are open for the truth to come out of it. We have to demonstrate by our own walk with Christ how he really is.
| 2008/5/9 7:43||Profile|
I know a man who has had some similar manifestations as the man from Germany had. He was not demonized in the process or anything like that. In fact he fell more in love with Jesus and more committed to serve him.
Its not in doubt that God can save souls who are caught up in heresy. God is God after all. But these people get converted in spite of the heresy not because of it.
[i]18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:18 (KJV)[/i]
Lets not get confused.
It may just be that some of us who went to church all our lives being told to sit down, shut up and listen to the teacher, need to wake from our stupor and learn what it means to have a relationship with God.
I honestly dont think that that is the issue here brother. These videos disturb us greatly and we seek to warn and help those caught up in this movement. We have to protect the truth. This ultimately leads to an orderly fellowship. Problem is that some churches shut the door and become as hard as clay. The door should be open, but once open the devil sneaks in with his heresy which is why we need order and structure.
[i]25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.
Its a difficult task to protect the truth. It requires discernment and I pray for the elders of churches who are charged with this task.
I still catch myself sometimes falling into the same trap as the Pharisees: searching the Scriptures because I think in them I will find life. And yet those very Scriptures speak of Jesus, and I do not always come to him to find life.
Agreed, the Scriptures draw us closer to Christ. The Holy Spirit allows us to understand them, but God will not divert from the Scriptures. These manifestations are clearly unscriptural and therefore outside of our trusted source of light in this world.
[i]105Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.
| 2008/5/9 7:58||Profile|
This ridiculousness is straight from the pit of hell....period. How this can be even remotely perceived as coming from God is heartwrenching and deplorable.
| 2008/5/9 11:34|
Sweden (Northern Europe)
It is only two possible explanations concerning the youtube clips; either
a. it is demonic or
b. the good old plain mass suggestion (a collective mass behaviour).
I can see nothing of the Holy Spirit in this!!! It is just grown men doing childish things together ....
The behaviour sometimes reminds me of the Vineyard "laughing revival" from the mid 90:s.
| 2008/5/9 12:35||Profile|
[b]Davym[/b], you are a man after my own heart! Everything you wrote sounds exactly like the things I have been saying on here forever! Bless you brother, it's nice to know there are others out there like me who are just crazy enough to believe the Word of God!
| 2008/5/9 12:57|
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=3324]Holiness or "Blessing" by Art Katz[/url]
Is a very good argument against any clown like behaviour I grew up in a School where i had to argue against pretty much against TB (Toronto Blessing)
| 2008/5/9 14:11||Profile|
I can imagine that this "annointing" may even appear as a strong desire to serve Christ. The question is which Christ.
"But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. For if he who comes preaches anohter Jesus whom we have not preached, or [b]if you receive a different spirit which you have not received..."[/b]
I have no interest in watching this, but I have seen similar things in times past.... I tried to find the quote from Watchman Nee regarding his experience of those practicing a form or "witchcraft" which involved the shaking of the head.. I did find this intead:
"Another danger may arise for those who live by sensation rather than by the spirit through the will: they may be deceived by Satan. This is one matter about which we ought to inform ourselves. Satan is skillful in counterfeiting the feelings which come from God. If with diverse kinds of sensations he attempts to confuse Christians who aspire to walk wholly after the spirit, how much more will he play his tricks on those who desire to follow their feeling. In their pursuit of emotion they fall directly in the hand of Satan, for he delights to supply them with all kinds of feeling which they assume to be from God.
The evil spirit is able to excite or to depress people. Once a person is misled into accepting Satan-dispensed feeling, he has yeilded ground to Satan in his soul. He shall continue to be further decieved until Satan has gained control over nearly all his feeling. Sometimes Satan will even induce him to experience supernatural sensations of shaking, electrifying, freezing, overflowing, floating in the air, fire burning from head to foot and comsuming all his uncleanness, etc.
When anyone has been beguiled to this extent his whole being comes to thrive on feelings, his will is totally paralyzed, and his intuition is entirely surrounded. He exsists altogether in the outer man; his inner man is completely bound....
Supernatural phenomena such as those described damage the spiritual life of many a Christian most severly today. Countless numbers of Gods children have fallen into this pit. "
From Watchman Nee's [u]The Spiritual Man[/u]
If this was so in Brother Nee's time, how much more so today!
I appreciate the comments that you all have written, they are very true. Amen!
| 2008/5/9 15:58||Profile|
I watched the videos and I just keep thinking, "how could someone think this is God at work?" It just blows my mind. Nonetheless, we should continue to pray that God will move. I heard Ravenhill say that you will see false fire alongside the true fire when it comes.
One thing I keep going back to, in Wesley's experiences with the Spirit causing people to cry out, fall to the ground, etc, the individuals never expected this to happen. Wesley, on the other hand, always warned people to be sober. J Edwin Orr said that the people that were "slain in the Spirit" in the 1800's were unconverted, wicked people; not those waiting on a blessing from God.
My opinion is that there are some converted people who have been blinded by these types of things. Many are unconverted and truly seeking something. The ones that I think know they are not genuine are the false leaders. I was just watching about Marjoe Gortner; at least he admitted that it was all fake. He said that his conscience bothered him while he was putting on "the show."
Let's remember that all these people still need God.
| 2008/5/31 23:42||Profile|
I just signed on here and so appreciate all you've said. I have been listening to audio sermons now for a while as I sensed from the Lord to do so and now as I've done my homework concerning Todd Bentley and all who support him I have been so disheartend as many I found right in my church,
I spoke with my Pastor also and he doesn't see any need to renounce this "revival" as he says it's way too much like chasing rabbits as it would never end for him if he started. He told me he does agree with Rick Joyner although he didn't understand why he had gone and commisioned Todd Bentley. After doing my homework on Rock Joyner I find he too is just another false apostle. I have checked out so many who are tel evangelist and the like and find myself more and more appalled. I have been blind as I came into being a Christian through a charasmatic church and I've seen things from time to time that I just didn't agree with as it didn't line up with what I seen in the word of God. but then I saw it only in part and now I see it all very clearly. I have told my Pastor I no longer want to be identified with the charasmatic movement and his answer surprised me. But in all I am not surprised as I believe the Lord shown me beforehand about this great apostasy, I just have many relationships in my church and have grown to love so may of them with a pure heart. However God knows all things and also knows those that are His and will deliver them also in time.I'm home today from church as I cannot in truth go back to my church until I know wihout shadow or doubt that they separate themselves from all this deception. 2 Jn 9-11 I simply see it like this and want nothing to do with it as I truly do love God, His word, and want to be part of the group who are called the few by Jesus Mt 7:13-14 I think that if my Pastor would just think for a minute about what he said in ref to chasing rabbits then that should be indication enough that all these big time ministries are not following the Lord Jesus of the bible but their own pernicous ways. I will continue to listen to audio messages until the Lord shows me further where I can go. It's not easy as so many churches are in an apostasy state and not preaching the whole counsel of God. However I know in truth that God never leaves Himself without a witness.
Anyway thanks again for your insights which have helped me much today.
Evelyn S. Chaput
| 2008/7/20 13:22||Profile|
Okay, I just looked at the first video, of Bentley kneeing the German guy in the gut. I think its a great finishing maneuver . . . for the WWE!
I'm grieved this guy is doing this stuff in the name of our Lord. I'm not against him because of his piercings or tats, God can use people like that. But, God is not using Bentley; Bentley is using God.
i went a little down the rabbit trail and watch those stallworths of Christian doctrine, John Kilpatrick and Steve Hill bless brther Todd. Its comforting to know that the last heretics are pleased with the current. Hill said that millions are longing for the supernatural. That's true, but ito paraphrase the prophet Jeremiah "there is not one who longs after the Lord." The supernatural isn't the realm of God alone. Mr. Bentley is in league with darkness, there is no doubt.
| 2008/7/20 15:01||Profile|