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DirkW
Member



Joined: 2007/11/16
Posts: 88
Netherlands

 question about manifestations

A question:
A lot of what I see in the charismatic movement, is that people say the Holy Spirit is getting poured out at a meeting...there is a lot of healing, people are getting free and a lot of people also see angels.

Healing OK
Getting free OK
Seeing angels...I know the bible speaks over angels and for example elijah did see them sometimes. But how is that nowadays, is it scriptural? How do we react on those kind of manifestations?


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Dirk

 2008/4/30 10:42Profile









 Re: question about manifestations

Quote:

DirkW wrote:
A question:
A lot of what I see in the charismatic movement, is that people say the Holy Spirit is getting poured out at a meeting...there is a lot of healing, people are getting free and a lot of people also see angels.

Healing OK
Getting free OK
Seeing angels...I know the bible speaks over angels and for example elijah did see them sometimes. But how is that nowadays, is it scriptural? How do we react on those kind of manifestations?




I'm going to venture out on a limb here but I am pentecostal by family and by nature. I don't mind even saying "I'm charismatic," but that doesn't mean that I adhere to or even agree with what a LOT of them say God is doing in their meetings.

A huge problem with what goes on in meetings is exactly like the fable. . . The Emperor Has No Clothes. Everyone's afraid to call out some people because of their "status" in the so-called prophetic realm. And the Scripture: believe a prophet and you'll prosper. I want to prosper, so I shouldn't say anything.

One thing I do know is that people who actually see angels and have true experiences with God. . . it truly humbles them, it doesn't cause to them make a religion out of it and make money off of it.

But that's just my opinion... I hope I made sense. If not, pray for me!!

God bless,

 2008/4/30 11:26









 Re:

They say there are healings... I ask: Where's the proof of such claims? Whenever these folks are pressed for proof of healings they can never produce it... and then yell "touch not the Lord's annointed!"

Instead of holding healing services, why not walk into the local hospital and heal some folks down there? Jesus [b]went[/b] to the sick, He didnt rent the Roman Colesium and preform healings to the glee of the audience... at $35 a ticket, plus pass the bucket around for even more $$$.

I believe in healing. But not in the way it's being "claimed" today.

As far as people getting free... free from what exactly? If they are in Christ they are already free. If they are struggling with sin, then dont need to be set free... they need to submit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ.

Seeing angels? Thats too subjective... maybe they are... or maybe they're making it up. I've seen people make stuff up when I was in Charismania. Some of the most outlandish claims. There is a lot of silliness in Charismania.

Krispy

 2008/4/30 11:38
sojourner7
Member



Joined: 2007/6/27
Posts: 1573
Omaha, NE

 Re: question about manifestations

Krispy is right. Many who come seeking "signs"
or "manifestions" and claim deliverance, healing,
etc have missed what matters most: the LORD !!


_________________
Martin G. Smith

 2008/4/30 11:52Profile
Everett
Member



Joined: 2007/5/3
Posts: 77
West Bloomfield, MI

 Re: question about manifestations

Angels are ministering spirits sent forth to render service for the sake of those who inherit salvation. Angels are seen more so in the Old Testament than in the New but saints in the Old Testament didn't have the Comforter or the Holy Spirit like we do today or not in the same way. The Presence of the Lord came with the angel but now we have the presence of the Lord within us and His sure word speaking to our hearts. Angels used to be the medium that God would use to speak with man through the Prophets but now in the last days God has spoken to us by his Son Jesus Christ whether in the form of an Angel or through the five fold ministry gifts or through the Holy Spirit or through an audible voice but it is still God speaking to us by his Son Jesus Christ no matter the form or method. So Angels are messengers sent forth to deliver an message and that message should be aligned with Jesus Christ the spokesperson in the last days who is the Word of God and if it is not aligned with the Word of God then that Angel is not from God and should be accursed.

One thing I see that these Charismatic Leaders are failing to do is to test the spirits and see if they are of God. They will accept anything cause they are so hungry for the manifestations. One way to test the spirits is to ask if Jesus Christ came in the flesh. If that angel or spirit denies that then it is the spirit of the antichrist. This is why we must be discerning on what kind of angel we are dealing with whether it be an genuine angel from God or an demon masquerading as an angel of light and you know they can do that pretty good but they can't fool someone who has the Holy Spirit anointing within them which reveals all truth. Light and darkness conflict so you will know when you come in the presence of an angel whether it is of God or not cause you will sense something right or not right in your spirit but it is always good to just check and test the spirits.

Most often now a days there is an increasing number or accounts in revelation given by and through angels that is "extra biblical" that means you can't find it in the bible. Now that the bible canon has been complete cause we have all the books from Genesis to Revelation, which have been hand picked out as inspired by God, angels should only bring us an word from heaven that is in line with the bible. Those things that are not inline with the bible cannot be formed into doctrine for us to believe and obey as an Christian. It is the Holy Spirit that should be teaching us all things not angels cause the Holy Spirit cannot fail or be in error and if your spirit is hooked up with the spirit of truth then you will know what is truth no matter if an angel or an man comes from heaven declaring another gospel or some foreign unheard of message. Therefore it is by the Holy Spirit, who wrote the bible and knows all things, that we should weigh angelic encounters and their messages. Angels just like us are accountable to God for speaking anything contrary to his Word. So the Word is supreme and is above all but God uses various methods to speak with us according to our receptiveness and level of growth nevertheless the the word spoken is still from Jesus Christ, the spokesperson of the last days and should already be found within the Holy Bible.


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Chad Everett Dalton

 2008/4/30 12:11Profile









 Re:

Everett, Amen!

The Charismatic movement is full of people who are not satisfied with the sufficiency they have in Christ. The Bible is not enough. Salvation is not enough. The Holy Spirit is not enough. They seek after "experience" and not the Lord of the experience.

I know believers who have traveled from one end of this continent to the other chasing after an experience.

You want a real spiritual experience? Minister to the poor widow. Start a prison Bible study. Go on a real mission trip... not the one in Cancun... but a real one. Minister to street people.

Krispy

 2008/4/30 13:25
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re:

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

This is a present happening, The tense is, "Is Come" in the flesh, not has come.

This is the presence of Jesus Christ in our flesh, which has been quickened to contain the Spirit of Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

Eph 2:1 And you [hath he quickened], who were dead in trespasses and sins;

Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1Pe 3:18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:

This mortal body is where Christ "is come".

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.

Because without His Spirit in us we are none of His.

Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

This making the Spirit of Christ our new creature life and the Holy Spirit our teacher of that life.

1 Peter 1:11-12 Searching what, or what manner of time the ((((Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify,)))) when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you ((((by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven;)))) which things the angels desire to look into.

The Spirit of Christ, Life. The Holy Spirit, knowledge and the power of that knowledge, which is The Life of "Christ in you the Hope of Glory".


Paul was chargeable to no men and took nothing for the Gospel, God provided by those He moved to support Paul.

2 Corinthians 11:9-15 And when I was present with you, and wanted, I was chargeable to no man: for that which was lacking to me the brethren which came from Macedonia supplied: and in all things I have kept myself from being burdensome unto you, and so will I keep myself. As the truth of Christ is in me, no man shall stop me of this boasting in the regions of Achaia. Wherefore? because I love you not? God knoweth. But what I do, that I will do, that I may cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein they glory, they may be found even as we. For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

As Everett has said, test all spirits.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2008/4/30 13:32Profile





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