Now, they may have none.
I trust that you are not saying that because these concerns were raised that somehow the organizers of the site have been offended and now will not share the material with anyone. I agree with your statement that we should wait till the website is finalized before jumping to conclusions. It is a very human thing to do. Yet just because its human does not mean that it is way of the people of the Kingdom. Having ministries by his name does seem like a small thing that is of no consequence yet having listened to him several years now I do think that he himself would never have attached that suffix. It speaks of an attempt to stand out and be distinquished in someway. Seems pretty innocent yet the small things often times can be the seed to a monstrous future tree of self exaltation. This is why I believe that he never used this convention.
| 2008/4/27 10:36||Profile|
Sorry, this is just ridiculous. Even if Katz wouldn't have chosen "ministries" next to his name-- it's completely irrelevant. His writings had an outlet, that's what matters. Simon (and Brian) was putting in a lot of work into the website. And all you guys do is offer up all of this criticism. It's completely discouraging.
| 2008/4/27 11:34||Profile|
Seriously Kire, you honestly think Katz wouldn't be comfortable with "Ministry" next to his name? Are you serious? [b]He'd be most happy that his writings were being propagated.[/b] That's what he wanted. Also, any of the BI books, open 'em up, and you'll see a copyright symbol.
Sorry, this is just ridiculous. Even if Katz wouldn't have chosen "ministries" next to his name-- it's completely irrelevant. [b]His writings had an outlet, that's what matters.[/b]
Art would not be confortable. For the strategies employed are something he has spoken against many times in his sermons. The mere fact that you ask Kire whether he was "serious" shows a profound misunderstanding of the so called "ministry" of Art Katz.
I am glad that the messages are put up online, however, I do not feel comfortable directing people to the website because of the misrepresentation of who Art was. Self-promotion is very subtle.
| 2008/4/27 11:54|
This is the Art Katz address:
[url=www.artkatzministries.org]Art Katz Ministries[/url]
For those with any questions/comments/input, please contact AKM directly through the contact page of the website.
| 2008/4/28 11:33||Profile|
I'm glad the materials are back up. Thank you for your work on the site. Even though by this thread you may think no one appreciates it, I and others that I know do.
| 2008/4/28 19:29||Profile|
By the way, we've been having major difficulties
with our server, that is why materials weren't working.
| 2008/4/28 23:44||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
Brothers and Sisters,
I recommend highly to all of you that you be "slow" to speak towards speaking evil towards anyone's "intentions" or motives in ministry. There is a sad thing to judge men's intentions by their actions. I can vouch that my interactions with the brothers who have put together the art katz ministry website seem to be very purposeful and desiring to be blameless in their endeavor. And it seems to me it is plain they are working as "unto the Lord" in this work.
As with most things on SI we are not looking to brush this under the carpet but deal with the issue and use wisdom and judgement. If we will judge angels one day surely we can be careful to judge ourselves in these matters and I recommend anyone that has very strong opinions they can share it with the Art Katz ministry personally: email@example.com
Everyone is fully responsible for their public statements but also please do not use that freedom to rail and other brothers. I feel if there is anything in the work that needs to be perfected "GOD" is able to do this without our critical statements. Have you prayed for these brothers doing this? Have you prayed for their success and guidance from the Lord?
I say these things with a heart that has been at fault a many time in this sort of fashion. I speak to you out of my weakness and fault. Please allow God to speak to your hearts saints not a man.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2009/6/22 19:08||Profile|
| Re: Arts ministry. |
Amen Greg. Art was always "outside the camp", as though he was a forerunner and pointed back to the body, just explaining what he saw ahead, both good and bad. He also believed that a lobotomy was not necessary to know the Lord intimately, and pursued a degree as he aged. I think that he wanted to understand, to submit to the admonition of the Holy Spirit from Solomon; "With all your getting, get understanding!" He did so.
I cannot count myself as a friend with any intimacy, however I have spoken with him a few times by telephone, and once he sent me a book to review before publication, "The Holocaust, the judgment of the Almighty", or to that effect, and I have written to him a once or twice. Art was always accessible to the least of the brethren, especially at his "holy convocation" meetings. I have also heard him preach and teach in more formal meetings.
His books have blessed me,; I remember REALITY: the hope of glory, and earlier one, as I remember. I have read others. I did not fall in perfect alignment with Art on everything, as I am with all; but I certainly respect Art's legacy, and especially his respect for the weak in the Church as equals.
He was courageous and wrote and spoke his convictions, wherever the axe may fall, and on whoever. This would naturally create some enemies, and I dare say that they outnumbered his supporters, which leads me to the point. If his messages are available, I'm happy. If they are at a cost, well it costs money to publish a Bible. We don't complain about that, do we?...and evidently there are copyrights. Could this be a tempest in a teakettle? Let us not meddle, except in the area of heretics. This is not that.
| 2009/6/22 20:20|
| Re: |
some of you guys on SI are so "biblical" and "doctrinal correct", that you are of no use for god...
In Proverb it is written: "Buy the truth..."
So, If Art's Book are sold now for money, that is no cause to judge the people behind the work. If people pay for the truth that is in the books, they will surely be blessed.
Come on, how many of the "free" books do you really read? We have the whole harddisk full of free stuff we never touch. But if we buy a book, then we will read it, because we paid a price...
But if the Devil can trick you into judging some of our brothers, than you are really deceived. Do you really think you can look into the heart of simon & other people at BI? Paul could not look into the hearts of other men, nor in his own heart (1. Co 4), David could not look into his own heart (Psa 139, last verses), it is written that only god can see what is in the heart of men and that he is the judge (1 co 4) and we ought not to judge before the time and leave all the judging to him!
I used to judge the website of art katz ministries with the same arguments, but god cinvicted me of my guilt, halleluja! Now I can be much more mrecyful to my brethren and i can love them way more than before, even if they do things that do not fit into my doctrinal system.
| 2009/6/24 10:49||Profile|