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MisterCheez
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 Art Katz: Lying Signs and Wonders: Deceptions of the Last Days

I encourage everyone to read this, especially those confused and concerned by present day "signs and wonders."

[url=http://artkatzministries.org/lying-signs-and-wonders-deceptions-of-the-last-days/]Art Katz Ministries (Source)[/url]
Taken from Ben Israel Newsletter – Spring 1995
Some Cautionary Thoughts on the Present Revival
I would appreciate your sympathy as I try to address a subject that is already dividing many of God’s people into defensive and opposing camps. One is put into the uncomfortable, if not dangerous, even in raising elementary cautions, of seeming to oppose to what in the eyes of many is holy and of the Spirit of God. Precious and mature saints of our own knowledge testify to the indisputable blessing they are assured that they have received. Far be it from us to dispute or denigrate what is from God. Nevertheless, in fidelity to our own call and responsibility before the Lord and to His people, and after much reflection, prayer and discussion amongst ourselves, we offer the following for your thoughtful and prayerful consideration.
I venture out with some trepidation to raise some questions about a phenomenon that is already perplexing many. Unlike such previous moves of God as the Welsh Revival, noted from its inception for its unmistakably holy character, the present revival generates mixed reports from unequivocal enthusiasm to those that are dubious, critical, and utterly rejecting. Some suggest more than one stream with a fleshly counterfeit paralleling the God-given and authentic. What I have been able to observe via video tape of one principal, and evidently original stream, I found entirely repugnant. Ministers of the word were ostensibly so drunk in the spirit that they were unable to be coherent, railing finally into a collapse from their stupor. I found this entirely unbecoming to the dignity of their professed call and felt the preached word to he denigrated by joking references to the feeble results obtained by it in comparison to the effects procured now by the experiences of the ‘power’ to which they were testifying. Was it my imagination that made me sense in watching some helplessly convulsing in laughter, that what had gripped them was already panically beyond their control and was actually causing them a physical pain? It is a moot question if one would describe it as ‘holy’. On the contrary, it appears to be irreverent if not indeed demonic and hellish.
From identical meetings others report unmistakable benefit, instant release from depression and other dogged personality disorders and disabilities upon receiving ‘the blessing’. We are not in a position to categorically condemn as deception the ostensible benefits to which many testify. God is always free to bless whom He will bless. But our point is that if the enemy can succeed in bringing the Church to viewing benefit as the determinant by which something is judged to be of God, we may well have been brought to the very ground of deception itself.
For myself, I would choose to keep my distance from such phenomena, trusting that whatever I might be missing is not greater than what I am protecting and cherishing and that the Lord is not offended by a carefulness that would rather err in a jealousy for His holiness than to risk subverting what has already been given as pure and true (the residue of the knowledge of God as holy, obtained through obedience and communion, cherished and guarded over the years). What believer who has once been in that Presence could ever countenance the entertainment-carnival atmosphere that prevailed in the video cited above? I have not yet recovered, and trust never will, from the eerie experience some twenty years ago of being present on the platform at an international conference in the midst of falling bodies (ostensibly ’slain in the Spirit’) in the complete absence of the sense of God’s presence! The visible demonstration of power without the corresponding sense of God in the midst of squeals of carnal excitement and popping flashbulbs was more than could be borne. Whatever the consequence to propriety, ministerial and offended relationships, I had to leave.
Remarkable that though we are explicitly warned about end-time “lying signs and wonders”, (II Thessalonians 2:9; Matthew 24:24) we imagine that it is future and mindlessly trust ourselves in our greed for experiences, empowerments, or releases to dubious personalities who have caught the public fancy in incredible overnight popularity. I profoundly respect God’s use of the weak and the foolish thing, but I cannot for that reason endorse what is garish, cheap, and coarse as being that. “Holiness unto the Lord” is still the standard of God’s House even when it is unspectacular and unassuming in the eyes of the world—or even our own.
Certainly in all of the overwhelming endorsement of the present revival-renewal phenomenon, the sober believer will not fault this modest, hopefully redemptive voice of caution. Perhaps one of the most ominous features of the hour is the note of warning sounded about those who have some reserve as being ‘obstructions’, ‘enemies’, or ‘threats’ to this outpouring of God. The invitation seems to be to abandon all restraint (’The bar is open’)—leap in or get out of the way of others if you cannot! God is well able, I feel sure, to protect as well as perfect what pertains unto Him (Colossians 1:28). I cannot help but wonder if it is man’s interests that are being so vehemently defended and that we are at the inception of what could ultimately be finalized by the warning that “they will kill you and claim that they are doing God a service.” (John 16:2)
I would insert here a caution given by T. Austin Sparks, more appropriate now perhaps then when it was sounded decades ago, in speaking of the Corinthians’ propensity for ’sensational evidences’. How much does it suggest that we may presently be reaping is what was mindlessly and carelessly sown in the decades of the Charismatic Movement. The immaturity of many was fostered in easy ‘decisions’, Cross-avoiding indolence, undisciplined living, the giddy adulation of personalities and in the superficiality, levity and lightness of our meetings:
“We are in that kind of age today. It is becoming more and more a psychic age. It is an age of the soul just spilling over, asserting itself, taking control of everything in Christianity as well as outside of it—a soulish age… Be careful that you are not hankering for this realm again. Are you after the evidence? My, how I have seen dear Christian people just prostrating themselves, groaning and crying, almost screaming for evidence—these ’sign’ things… Christians and dear men of God, who have been greatly used, are creating an emotional, psychic situation that is involving simple Christians in things which are, sooner or later, going to be a great disillusionment and an offense.  It will bring ‘offendedness’ with the Lord, and that is just what the devil is after.”   (Called Unto the Fellowship of His Son, p. 46, published by Emmanuel Church, 12000 E.14th St., Tulsa, OK 74128)
Personally, I believe myself to be ready to risk all and to dare all for the Lord, but certainly not for a ‘blessing’ or dubious ‘experience’ that confers some seeming good. My own preference, and I believe that of the Scripture, is to seek out the root of depression according to the Word (usually unacknowledged disobediences). This will be accomplished primarily through that part of the Body to whom I am accountable and with whom I am authentically joined. (Ephesians 4:15) When ‘experience’ as a ‘quick-fix’ alternative is preferred to these disciplines, we put ourselves in a place of spiritual jeopardy. Is not the Lord near at hand to all who seek Him? What is the enduring benefit when we have merely received some alleviation from the symptoms that were occasioned by serious defects of character and return with these defects still remaining? Whatever the future will reveal of the present revival phenomenon, perhaps the greatest will be the profound repentance of broken thousands upon recognizing their susceptibility to deception, their lack of elementary discernment, and their haste to run after demonstrations of power in atmospheres so contrary to God’s known holiness and character.
Clearly, a power is at work. The question is, whose? Who is it that is mediating an alternative and lesser joy to the immature, the carnal, and the undiscerning? We are already discomforted to learn of the loss of interest, even the repudiation of apostolic vision once held by those who have received ‘the blessing’—as if the one were somehow antithetical or opposed to the other! Assuming that our fears are exaggerated and that the present phenomenon is of God, though admittedly marred only by certain excesses, in what ways will future ‘lying signs and wonders’ be different from that with which we are presently being confronted? By what criteria will these differences be identified? Are we presently at the level of maturity and discernment by which these important distinctions can be made? By what means shall we come to that place if we are now prone to describe as ‘enemies’ those who are only raising the questions? The very ridicule and censure brought by the advocates of this revival to those who attempt to do so makes suspect the very claims they espouse. The fact that something eventuates in blessing, release, or deliverance is no sure evidence or guarantee that it is of God. (Matthew 24:24) The same powers of darkness which have wrought the oppressions through careless or unclean living can just as easily relieve them—restoring even relationships broken and made miserable by them—in order to bring about a greater deception!
Even the most rapturous ‘love of God’ can be a pseudo-sensation produced by spirits in the indiscriminate and slothful who are unwilling for the sacrifices of seeking God’s face in truth. Is the ‘hunger for God’ in fact that, or a hunger for an experience of God that will assure the insecure soul that they are known and accepted of God? Is this not the unrecognized motive that makes many pant after present day prophets in hope of a ‘prophetic’ word of this kind? Does not this encouraged tendency promote the immaturity of such rather than encourage them in the faith of sons? Do we not prefer to be effortlessly ‘acted upon’ miraculously—rather than diligently seek God on the basis of the promise of His Word? “And ye shall seek Me, and find Me, when ye shall search for Me with all your heart.” (Jeremiah 29:13)
Are these not the last days in which we have been warned about deception and been exhorted to test all spirits? (I John 4:1; I Thessalonians 5:21) What are our eschatological expectations—the premises of our faith? Surely these views will altogether affect our susceptibilities to every new thing that promises to bless and establish us in this present life and rob us at the same time of the alertness that would and should otherwise be ours. Are we to ignore the prevalence of ear-splitting ‘worship’, high-powered offerings, calculated theatrics, carnival bawdiness, the chilling hellish shrieks and cries that punctuate the proceedings, the conspicuous absence of the preached word (except perhaps in a token way), the relentless spirit-dulling testimonies in a stupor unbecoming the dignity of God—given incoherently even by ministers of the Word? Not for a moment would such ‘phenomena’ be tolerated at the historic Welsh Revival where every care was taken to avoid even the use of instrumental music or any intrusion of man—the very things now being celebrated and employed. That revival was holiness unto the Lord so long as those standards were maintained.
Has He changed from being the God who insisted that His priests mount a ramp to the altar rather than ascend by steps lest any flesh be revealed? (Exodus 20:26) Who had them wear the golden head plate continually on their foreheads (the very place now we so readily make available for the touch that brings the ‘blessing’) ‘Holiness unto the Lord’? Who enjoined about the holy anointing oil that nothing shall be made ‘like unto that’ nor that it shall ever “Upon man’s flesh… be poured?” (Exodus 30:32-38) Our ache is that ‘Holiness unto the Lord’ be ascribed afresh on the foreheads of priestly men and women who will stand for Him in this age of sleaze and vulgarity that even now threatens to seep into the House of God. It is the cry of Isaiah 52:11, “Depart ye, depart ye, go ye out from thence, touch no unclean thing; go ye out of the midst other; be ye clean, that bear the vessels of the Lord”—Indeed, “let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” (II Corinthians 7:1). Viewing the world staggering in violence, war, the catastrophes of earthquake, famine, flood, and fire, the Church in its present pitiful state of shallowness and un-preparedness, should we not rather “Be afflicted, and mourn and weep: let[ting] our laughter be turned to mourning, and [our] joy to heaviness?” Forgive us if we are being too cautious. We would be naive to think that deception is only a fear for the carnal and the sensual. Final and last day’s deceptions will be spiritual “for Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light”. (II Corinthians 11:14) “The end of all things is at hand: be ye therefore sober, and watch unto prayer.” (I Peter 4:7).


_________________
Brian Erickson

 2008/4/21 12:06Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re: Art Katz: Lying Signs and Wonders: Deceptions of the Last Days

what I cant figure out is why do those that never attended a revival meeting claim to be an authority.
I have attended many meetings where the Holy Laughter was present and watched some recieve tremendous blessing and impartation.(as did I)
I was in the Browwnsville Revival for years and was very blessed.
Anyone that wasn't there missed ...out big time.
Most will never see revival for several reasons.The Holy Spirit wont jump through your theological hoops.
You seek teachers to justify your preconceived notions.
You would'nt know what was going on if the Holy Spirit did visit in fullness and power.

The Lord knows your hearts and misconceptions and that is why he has to use a coal miner and a black nobody preacher (seymor) to bring his presence down to his people.



Note the Holy laughter that followed the great revivals;
Holy Laughter

Holy laughter also occurred in early evangelical and holiness circles. Jonathan Edwards describes the reaction of some who were converted in the Great Awakening revival: "Their joyful surprise has caused their hearts as it were to leap, so that they have been ready to break forth into laughter, tearing often at the same time issuing like a flood, and intermingling a loud weeping."17 E. M. Bounds records Wesley saying, "The power of God came mightily upon us, so that many cried out for exceeding joy, and many fell to the ground."18 Charles Finney wrote that after he testified about his experience of being baptized in the Spirit, a usually serious elder of his church "fell into a most spasmodic laughter. It seemed as if it was impossible for him to keep from laughing from the very bottom of his heart."19

Jessie Penn-Lewis recounts manifestations of holy laughter and being drunk in the Spirit taking place during the Australian Keswick Convention of 1891:

The Convention was marked by clean-cut surrender to God for all His will to be done at all costs, and by an overflowing joy which followed in hundreds of hearts, so that, as Mr. George Soltau wrote, "Literally 'our mouths were filled with laughter and our tongues with singing'. . . . It was impossible to restrain one's heart, the Lord giving us such a foretaste of heaven. Talk of "fleshly excitement," I wish to bear my testimony that it was nothing less than the fulness of the Spirit. We were verily drunk with the joy of the Lord, and with the vistas of the possibilities of faith opening up to the fully surrendered life of the believer. But it was equally manifest to us all that this joy and blessing is only to be received and retained and increased by the death to self and of self and the most painful crucifixion of self.20

In 1897 A.B. Simpson wrote that one of the effects of being filled with the Spirit is "fullness of Joy so that the heart is constantly radiant. This does not depend on circumstances, but fills the spirit with holy laughter in the midst of the most trying surroundings."21 Simpson himself records in his diary on September 12, 1907, that he experienced holy laughter for more than an hour.22

Oswald Chambers also recorded in his diary on April 19, 1907: "Last night we had a blessed time. I was called down by the teachers to pray and anoint a lady who wanted healing, and as we were doing it God came so near that upon my word we were laughing as well as praying! How utterly stilted we are in our approach to God. Oh that we lived more up to the light of all our glorious privileges."23 Chambers evidently believed that laughter could be a sign of revival and, like Simpson, a result of the baptism in the Spirit.24

Praying John Hyde, the great intercessor and missionary to China also experienced holy laughter in the summer of the same year. His companion relates of a low caste Punjabi intercessor:

How often has G_____, after most awful crying seemed to break through the hosts of evil and soar up into the presence of the Father! You could see the smile of God reflected in his face. Then he would laugh aloud in the midst of his prayer. It was the joy of a son reveling in the delight of his father's smile. God has been teaching John [Hyde] and me that his name is the God of Isaac—laughter. . . . Rejoicing, laughing, the same word as Isaac. This holy laughter seemed to relieve the tension and give Heaven's own refreshment to wrestling spirits."25

Even C&MA leader A. W. Tozer also spoke positively of holy laughter:

Now I say that worship is subject to degrees of perfection and intensity. There have been those who worshiped God to the place where they were in ecstasies of worship. I once saw a man kneel at an altar, taking Communion. Suddenly he broke into holy laughter. This man laughed until he wrapped his arms around himself as if he was afraid he would bust just out of sheer delight in the presence of Almighty God. . . . So worship is capable of running from the very simple to the most intense and sublime.26

Spontaneously Dancing for Joy

During the Welsh revival of 1859, "many leaped and danced in the exuberance of their rapture."27 Sometimes related to the laughing phenomenon is a spontaneous dancing for joy. Praying Hyde, a staid Presbyterian, is described after a time of intense prayer at the Sialkot Convention (similar to Keswick), "He begins to sing, 'Tis done, the great transaction's done,' and he is so full of joy that his whole body begins to move, he claps his hands, then his feet begin to move, and look! he begins to dance for joy, and others join him until the whole place rings with God's praises."28 Such dancing also occurred upon occasion in C&MA meetings. Simpson writes of an African-American C&MA meeting he visited in 1895: "We witnessed a sacred dance by about fifty of the women." They swayed and moved arms and feet, keeping time to the music. "The effect was truly grand."29 As Vinson Synan notes, for some holiness groups, spontaneous dance or holy laughter was considered an evidence of Holy Spirit baptism.30

Physical Sensations

Such manifestations of laughing or falling were sometimes accompanied by unusual bodily sensations. Charles Finney avowed his baptism in the Spirit was "like a wave of electricity, going through and through me."31 Early C&MA pastor Dr. E. D. Whiteside's testimony of healing in 1888 included both physical sensations and falling under the power of the Spirit: "Like a flash of electricity, I was instantly thrilled. Every point of my body and nerves was controlled by a strange sensation that increased in volume, until I bowed lower and lower to the floor. I was filled with the ecstatic thrill. My physical frame was unable to stand the strain."32 Reminiscent of holy laughter, he reported that he felt he was on the verge of "dying from overjoy."33 The C&MA journals record many instances of physical sensations like heat, electrical shocks or bright lights accompanying healing.34



17 Edwards, 91.

18 E. M. Bounds, The Possibilities of Prayer (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1979), 138.

19 Finney, 22.

20 Mary N. Garrard, Mrs. Penn-Lewis: A Memoir (Hants, Eng.: The Overcomer Book Room, distrib. Ft. Washington: Christian Literature Crusade, 1947), 36-37.

21 A. B. Simpson, Days of Heaven on Earth (Camp Hill, PA: Christian Publications, 1984), June 27.

22 A.B. Simpson, "Simpson's Nyack Diary," Sept. 12, 1907, cited in Charles W. Nienkirchen, A.B. Simpson and the Pentecostal Movement (Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers, 1992), 145.

23 Oswald Chambers: His Life and Work (London: Simpkin Marshall, Ltd., 1947), 103.

24 Again Chambers records in his journal May 6, 1907, "It is an unspeakably blessed thing to see souls come out under the blessing of the baptism of the Holy Ghost and Fire. Some simply laugh, peals of the heartiest and most blessed laughter you ever heard, just a modern edition of 'Then was our mouth filled with laughter.'" A third time Chambers writes on May 27, "Many souls cut loose, there were tears and laughter and all the blessed signs of those revival times the Lord brings so mysteriously and suddenly upon His people. It is a great business to open up all the windows of the soul to heaven and live on the Hallelujah side." (Ibid., 104-105).

25 Capt. E. G. Carre, ed., Praying Hyde: A Challenge to Prayer, (Asheville, NC: Revival Literature, n.d.), 26.

26 A. W. Tozer, Worship: The Missing Jewel (Camp Hill, PA: Christian Publications, 1992), 20-21.

27 Evans, 70.

28 Ibid., 31.

29 A.B. Simpson, "Editorial Correspondence," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, April 17, 1895, 248.

30 Vinson Synan, The Holiness-Pentecostal Tradition: Charismatic Movements in the Twentieth Century (Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans, 1971, 1997), 95, 108-109.

31 Finney, 21.

32 Irene E. Lewis, Life Sketch of Rev. Mary C. Norton: Remarkable Healings on Mission Fields (Los Angeles: Pilgrim's Mission, Inc., 1954), 27.

33 Ibid.

34 George P. Pardington, Twenty-five Wonderful Years, 1889-1914: A Popular Sketch of the C&MA (New York, NY: Christian Alliance Publishing Co., 1914), 216; John Cookman, "Divine Holiness," The Word, The Work, and the World, Dec. 1885, 336; John E. Cookman, "A Testimony of Healing, The Word, The Work, and the World, Sept. 1886, 160-162; Mrs. George W. Ford, "Testimony of Divine Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, May 1887, 267; Mary A. Manning, "Healed and Kept," Christian and Missionary Alliance Weekly, Feb. 11, 1905, 85; Mrs. M.J. Clark, "Testimonies of Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, Jan. 1887, 33; Rev. McBride, "Testimonies of Healing," The Word, The Work, and the World, Sept. 1886, 164; R.E. Jeanson, "Divine Healing: A Testimony," The Word, The Work, and the World, Apr. 1887, 215. These are just a few of the many testimonies of physical sensations of warmth, electricity, power, light, etc.


Some are so quick to label the Holy Spirit the devil.

And revival is what it always will be elusive.

 2008/4/22 19:46Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

Most people are so sure of their preconceived fallacy they think they defend the faith and God himself when in actuality they oppose the Holy Spirit

Jessie Penn-Lewis;


Apart from such knowledge, when thinking he is "fighting for truth," it is possible for a believer to fight for, defend, and protect evil spirits, and their works, believing he is thereby "defending" God, and His works; for if he thinks a thing Divine, he will protect and stand for it. It is possible for a man through ignorance to stand against God and to attack the very truth of God, and also defend the devil, and oppose God, unless he has knowledge.

KNOWLEDGE GAINED BY LETTER OF SCRIPTURE,
AND BY EXPERIENCE

"The Bible throws much light upon the Satanic powers, which cannot fail to be discerned by all who search the Scriptures with open minds, but these will not obtain as much knowledge of the subject from the sacred record, as will those who have understanding by experience, interpreted by the Holy Spirit, and shown to be in line with the truth of the Word of God. The believer may have a direct witness in his spirit to the truth of the Divine Word, but through experience he gets a personal witness to the inspiration of Scripture, to its testimony concerning the existence of supernatural beings, and their works, and the way they deceive, and mislead the children of men."

Jessie Penn-Lewis


The Welsh Revival

 2008/4/22 20:04Profile
psalm1
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Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

THE CHURCH OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY

Why the Church in the twentieth century has not recognized the existence, and workings, of evil supernatural forces, can only be attributed to its low condition of spiritual life and power. Even at the present time, when the existence of evil spirits is recognized by the heathen, it is generally looked upon by the missionary as "superstition" and ignorance; whereas the ignorance is often on the part of the missionary, who is blinded by the prince of the power of the air to the revelation given in the Scriptures, concerning the Satanic powers.

The "ignorance" on the part of the heathen is in their propitiatory attitude to evil spirits, because of their ignorance of the gospel message of a Deliverer and a Saviour sent to "proclaim release to the captives" (Luke 4: 18), and Who, when He was on earth, went about healing all who were "oppressed by the devil" (Acts 10: 38), and sent His messengers to open the eyes of the bound ones, that they might "turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God" (Acts 26: 18).

Jessie Penn-Lewis



When will the believers wake up and see that while the devil does his work to attack anything that is anointed from heaven,it is believers he uses to unwittingly use scripture to come against the modern day revivals of Brownsville and Rodney Howard Browne

Face it ,if you havent been to the welsh revival, and all you were told was a small part(the holy laughter), you would also label the whole thing from hell.

David

 2008/4/22 20:20Profile
PaulWest
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Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Watchman Nee:

"Let me use some common illustrations to show the difference between the workings of the spirit and of the soul. And again, I will not mention those miraculous cases because I have already touched upon them. We may say that it is quite customary in the church today to work by psychic means. How often psychological methods are used in ministry meetings to attract people! How psychic ways are engaged in in believers' meetings to stimulate the audience. By observing the methods used, one can judge what kind of work is being done. Let me say frankly that many sermons can only help people's souls, but not their spirits. Such messages are merely spoken out of the soul, hence they can only reach man's soul and afford him a little more mental knowledge. We ought not labor this way, because such work never penetrates into man's spirit.

How are many revival meetings conducted? (I am not against the reviving of believers, this I must make abundantly clear. I am only asking if the way of conducting such meetings today is of the spirit.) Is it not true that in many revival gatherings a kind of atmosphere is first created to make people feel warm and excited? A chorus is repeated again and again to warm up the audience. A few stirring stories are told to precipitate the giving of testimonies. These are methods and tactics, but not the power of the Holy Spirit. When an atmosphere is almost fully heated up, the preacher will then stand up and preach. As he is preaching he is already aware of the kind of result he will achieve that day. He has various strategies ready. By clever maneuvering he can anticipate that a certain class of people will shiver and another class of people will cry-that there will be confession and the making of resolutions.

Such type of revival needs to be renewed every one or two years because the effect of the medicine given previously will wear off and the old condition return. Sometimes the effect of an earlier revival will even fade away after only a few weeks or a few months. Great zeal and willingness are indeed exhibited at the start of a revival, but after a while everything is over and done with. This is due to no other reason than a lack of life.

If the stories of many believers were ever recorded, they would comprise a history of revivals: revivals after falls, and falls after revivals. The stimulant used at the first revival has to be increased in dosage for the second one. In order to be effective, the method employed in the second instance must be more emotional and more stirring. I would therefore suggest that this kind of method could best be described as an injection of "spiritual morphine." It needs to be injected time and again. It is evident that the soul can only live by itself, it has not the power to make others live. Working through soul power even if people weep, make resolutions, and become zealous- is, practically speaking, worth nothing."

- from "The Latent Power of the Soul", 1933.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/4/22 21:48Profile









 Re: PIGS IN THE PARLOUR?...PART ONE




If I remember correctly, Jessie Penn-Lewis wrote a book "Pigs in the parlor", that was her theological premise of why the manifestations in the welsh Revival must be identified with the Devil, and there-by quenched.


Ms. Lewis influenced Evan Roberts, who moved to one of her estates, in agreement with her, and from that time on, the revival ended. After 6 months or so, there was no visible evidence that revival ever came. Evan attempted a comeback after a while, but to no avail. It was over.

He died a bachelor, after fading into relative obscurity. His later years were devoted to writing poetry, and a quiet life.


There are many who blame her for this, and see her as a tool of the devil in stopping God's work. [Roberts had a mind of his own. He made this decision.] It's interesting that this woman is used as a reference in defence of supernatural manifestations.


There were manifestations at Pentecost. Drunken behavior, uncontrolled tongues that melded into words of Life, and fire on and around people. Yet , the apostolic preaching of Peter was the center of the experience. The Word. This is that. Joel, coming into our time. The church.


In revival, both the Lord, and the Devil are at work. The manifestations are secondary, and in the long run, immaterial. Some may be of God, some of the Devil.


They must never be used though, as a badge of endorsement from God, or a sign that the Lord is there. This is the issue with Toronto, Rodney Browne, and the like, as I see it.


It seems that until these manifestations appear, God isn't there, and often, jokes are told, and the audience waits, and a party atmosphere ascends as the focus is strained toward these signs, rather than the gospel, and the ACTS of the holy Spirit.


I have also witnessed Doctrine being attached to spiritual manifestations, to the point of the absurd. Eagle crow. "Prophetic Ministry.......flapping like a bird "soaring with Jesus" These people were brought up front as icons of God's work! On the stage! A barnyard had less animal sounds than the meeting. This is what this sister is becoming!!!


People were shooting spirit lasers at each other, while rolling in laughter, on and on ! The sheep were ba-a-a-ing, birds were crowing, and laughter...This is what Art Katz was confronting. A soul fest draped in neo-pentacostal rhetoric, all in the name of revival.


 2008/4/22 22:18









 Re:PART TWO...ART KATZ'S SUMMARY

On Art Katz's confrontation.

Was there real ministry? Yes, but, as I see it, the lasting fruit is debatable. I see it as a derailment from the intent of God's heart to bring forth FRUIT, and "that your fruit would remain." The depth of the fruit, which must be calculated only by discernment in agreement with the Word, appears to be shallow, at best. The Blood, and honor that belongs to the Giver alone, were not the center load-stone for this "revival"....Experience was.


Thereby, the thinking that if the manifestations seem to be present, then it must be of God. Ministers then strove to see these experiences occur. Then validating themselves and the "MOVE". People who experienced this phenomena then also felt satisfied, and validated.

I will share a counter phenomena that happened to me while in India. I was but an observer, at a Reinhart Bohnke crusade in Madras. I was on the platform[I'm a nobody, but was invited by my sponsors] in front of at least 180,000 people. Reinhart preached and I observed a "splash", in the ocean of people. A small round object was floating on the sea, and floating to the front. It was a basket, with a young girl inside. When Bohnke had prayed, she felt movement in her lifeless legs. She was about 12 years, and the basket had been her only form off transportation. She was born with lifeless and deformed legs.


She came to the front, and wobbled out as bohnke reached down to her, and pulled her out. She reminded me of a spider, as she tumbled along, with legs the size of a golf ball around. He asked for prayer, eyes closed. I was 10 feet away, and decided to watch. I wasn't missing this one.


As I watched, I saw sinew and muscle grow, and her legs formed into the healthy legs of a girl athlete. I literally could not believe, as it was happening. I knew it did, but my mind rejected it.


Then, as he walked her around the stage, she began to skip, and dance, and then leaped in a heavenly stride more beautiful than any ballet, like a gazelle. I did see a halo, a glow. I saw a MAN around her, yet within her.



The crowd went wild for joy. At least 5000 rushed forward to receive the Healer and Savior. Bonhke preached Christ, and Him crucified, with signs following. The Giver of the Gift was honored. The manifestation was not glorified, but received as a gift.


Do you see the difference?


 2008/4/22 23:02
destinysweet
Member



Joined: 2007/11/19
Posts: 159


 Re:

Praise the Living God of true signs and wonders..Jesus is Alive! He is Superbly Awesome! Glory!!

Good synopsis..comparison. Let it be known..God is the God of true signs and wonders..He still moves mightily in accordance with His Divine Will! Let us give thanksgiving and praise for He is the same yesterday,today and forever!


_________________
G.M. (Destiny) Sweet

 2008/4/22 23:20Profile









 Re: Pigs In The Parlor

Dear Brother Tom,

Quote:
If I remember correctly, Jessie Penn-Lewis wrote a book "Pigs in the parlor"


I've owned this book for many years now as well as read it many times over. Please don't think of me as being negative as to the ones that wrote this book. Nor do i wish to be involved in any dialog on this subject matter within this thread. Wanting only to reveal the true ownership of this book. It was not Jessie Penn Lewis. It was Frank and Ida Mae Hammond. God Bless You.


[url=http://www.amazon.com/Pigs-Parlor-Frank-Hammond/dp/0892280271]Pigs In The Parlor by Frank & Ida Mae Hammond[/url]

 2008/4/23 9:42









 Re:


Sorry for the error! I knew that it was influential in that vein, and would have sworn it was her. My memory fades. I stand corrected. Did she have something to do with it? Was it connected to the revival in any way?



EDIT: This "PIG'S IN THE PARLOUR" IS A MODERN BOOK BY THE SAME NAME!, by the Hammond's, modern neo=prophetic folks. The copyright must have ran out on the name. The "Pigs in the parlour" I am referring to was written @ 1906-7?? If someone finds it, please post. But thanks for your diligence!

 2008/4/23 9:55





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