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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 How I see it

[b]Matthew 11:23[/b] [color=990000]And you, Capernaum, which is exalted unto heaven, shall be brought down to Hades: for if the mighty works, which have been done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.[/color]

Sodom repenting is an alternative "possible world"
God has knowledge of the different free choices that all mankind would make if we were put into any given situation.
For example, Given God’s knowledge of me and these exact circumstances of my life in this created world, God knows that in this situation I will repent. My choice might very well be not to repent in a different situation that a different alternative "possible world" would cause; God knows what my choices will be in all other situations in all other alternative "possible worlds as well.

Since each choice we make might be different in a different situation there are a wide variety of different scenarios that God knows. Together all these choices come within a seemingly infinite number of possible worlds. There are possible worlds where I freely choose to repent and other possible worlds where circumstances are different and perhaps I choose not to repent. My repentance and unrepentance effects others repentance as well as theirs effecting mine and even others as well.

According to the theology known as Molinism, God knew just what would happen and what we would freely choose in this world as he does in other possible words. God created this world out of a seemingly infinite possible number other worlds; and with this world in which we are in, the most possible souls repent with the least amount of judgment and accountability for those who do not. So, God created this world out of all of his possibilities. You could say that God predestined and foreknew all that would happen in the sense that God created a world in which all possible choices were known by him in advance. In this way, the Molinist would claim to have the best of all possible created worlds by combining several very important theological themes that often seem to contradict one another:
1 – Human beings have the freedom of choice.
2 – God foreknows all these choices.
3 – God created the world in which the most possible souls repent with the least amount of accountability and judgment for those who don't repent. Furthermore, I believe that this next fact is key; those who do not repent in this created world will not repent in any other possible world, so there is no sacrifice of possible repentance.

The questions arises, why would a loving God create those He knows will not repent?
If God chose to not create those who He knows will not repent, that alteration of this optimum amount of repented would change the circumstances to where it would cause more to not repent as the other alternative worlds.

If God knew men would not repent, why did God create them?
I will give an example to answer this one.
My intention is to invite & to dine with my whole neighborhood at my favorite restaurant.
I know that most will not come, and dine with me, however, that does not change my intention to do so.

Then, comes the question, why would I intend on inviting those who I know will not show up?
It is because I love them, the invitation proves my love for them. Furthermore, if I don't invite those who I know will not come, it will cause some that I know who will come to deny my invitation.
Just as in real life, God will use the death of a person(saved or not) to cause another to come to Him.
Or, as I mentioned above, If God didn't creat them, it would cause more to not repent as the other alternative worlds.

The most common objection to this theological system seems to be the so-called “grounding objection.” In a nutshell, this objection calls into question whether a choice can truly be free if it is known ahead of time. In other words, no one (God included) can know my choice of vanilla or chocolate until I make the choice. If a choice is determined ahead of time, then it is not free.
This a false assumption, the knowledge of
another’s choice does not take the options away from the one choosing, nor does it stop the freedom to choose. God is not the One who determins a mans choices just because He knows them.

 2008/4/13 21:06Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3697
Ca.

 Re: How I see it

Quote:


"""The most common objection to this theological system seems to be the so-called “grounding objection.” In a nutshell, this objection calls into question whether a choice can truly be free if it is known ahead of time. In other words, no one (God included) can know my choice of vanilla or chocolate until I make the choice. If a choice is determined ahead of time, then it is not free.
This a false assumption, the knowledge of
another’s choice does not take the options away from the one choosing, nor does it stop the freedom to choose. God is not the One who determins a mans choices just because He knows them."""

Where does it say we have free choice. If God is the infinite God He says He is, how is it that if He knows every one of us intimately, before we were ever born, He is able to create circumstances and situations, knowing exactly how we operate, to bring us to a choice that He intends. Knowing what circumstances and situation it will take for the one He is concerned and dealing with, to make the choice He wants, He will know whether I will choose chocolate or vanilla. Or He would not be God.

Man is so far below the infinite wisdom and intelligence that God is, we will be learning Him for all eternity and never exhaust His being God and us knowing all that He is.

Romans 9:14-23 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

He calls those that are to be in Christ Jesus.
No matter the circumstance or situation, God knows exactly which ones to put in the believer that he will choose Christ, this is His plan before the foundation of the world.

Ephesians 1:2-9 Grace be to you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ. Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Wherein he hath abounded toward us in all wisdom and prudence; Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in Himself:

It is His purpose that Christ be in us, that we should be son's of the living God by His Son that He has birthed in us.

Even in this mystery we still don't understand all the ramification of who we are in Christ. Paul had the most of knowledge anybody, that is the knowledge of this mystery and gave it to us to fulfill the Word of God. Even in these words, it still takes a revelation of the Holy Spirit for us to understand this mystery which is:

Colossians 1:24-29 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you, and fill up that which is behind of the afflictions of Christ in my flesh for his body's sake, which is the church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

We never will be able to put God in a box, that mans intellect can keep Him there.

1Cr 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

1Jo 5:9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son.


In Christ: Phillip



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Phillip

 2008/4/19 20:43Profile





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