i have seen a number of references on various threads here about a persons salvation, other than the person writing. for example, mother Teresa.
whether or not Mother Teresa was "Saved" is not for us to speculate upon. We can know our own convictions and faith; and our relationship with God is personal. to say that Mother Teresa was not saved, that she died and has gone to hell, is well beyond our own capacity to determine.
it is up to God.
i am not saying there is more than one way to salvation. i am saying that it's really none of our business who is and is not saved. it is between them and God.
| 2008/4/7 16:03|
| Re: saved??|
[u][b]James 5:19-20 (NKJV)[/b][/u]
[b]Bring Back the Erring One[/b]
"Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins."
[u][b]James 5:19-20 (KJV)[/b][/u]
Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
| 2008/4/8 0:03||Profile|
Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexico
MT was Christ in action, not profession. Jesus said if someone would give this little one even a cup of water, they would in no wise loose their reward (my paraphrase). He also said that no greater love hath a man than this, that he lay down his life for a friend. She laid down her life for many souls. So one had better be careful criticizing her.
Ex Catholic "O"
| 2008/4/8 2:22||Profile|
| Re: saved??|
Sometimes, it seems some threads are started only to cause discord and controversy. And also, without reference to scripture and using only their own opinion and assumptions to let the world know what is on their minds.
Well, now we know.
| 2008/4/8 7:43||Profile|
Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexico
Jesus also said that by the same measure we judge others, so shall we be judged. So be careful.
| 2008/4/8 11:16||Profile|
i don't want discord. but rather, proper respect for the deceased (and others.) i had seen a couple of references about MT not being saved, but didn't respond because it would have disrupted the topic of the thread. i could have just let it go, but it has been nagging me. She was a great leader and motivated many to charitiable works in the name of Jesus. what i think about Catholocism is irrelevant. and any speculation about her personal relationship with God is so much chaff.
(for all i know Hitler could have confessed at the moment of his death and become saved.)
| 2008/4/8 11:30|
| Re: saved??|
38 Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the Lord our God will call."
40 With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation."[B] 41 Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.[/B].
What was HIS message?
6 Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7 If you really knew me, you would know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."
Who can distingish who?
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16[b]Ye[/b] shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
42 They devoted themselves to the apostles' teaching and to the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and to prayer. 43 Everyone was filled with awe, and many wonders and miraculous signs were done by the apostles. 44 All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45 Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46 Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47 praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved.
Who is the Rock?
4 He is the Rock, his works are perfect,
and all his ways are just.
A faithful God who does no wrong,
upright and just is he.
15 He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" 16 And Simon Peter answered and said, "Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God." 17 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Blessed are you, Simon Barjona, because flesh and blood did not reveal this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18 "And I also say to you that you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it. 19 "I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven."
Who is He coming back for?
24 Now I rejoice in what was suffered for you, and I fill up in my flesh what is still lacking in regard to Christ's afflictions,[b] for the sake of his body, which is the church.[/b] 25 I have become its servant by the commission God gave me to present to you the word of God in its fullness- 26 the mystery that has been kept hidden for ages and generations, but is now disclosed to the saints. 27[b] To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery,[u] which is Christ in you,[/u] the hope of glory.[/b]
19 Go ye therefore,[b] and teach all nations,[/b] baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20[b] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:[/b] and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
| 2008/4/8 11:50|
I'm one of those that you're referring to, Bub... so let me respond.
I didnt say what I said about MT from a place of malice or hatred, in fact I more than pointed out that she did far more than almost all when it came to her humantarian efforts... and on that level she has my utmost respect.
However, in her own words she stated what her "salvation" was based on... and it wasnt the gospel. It wasnt the truth. It was a Catholic "gospel" (if you can it that, since the word gospel means "good news"). It was a works based salvation.
I believe her motivation for the work she did came from a real heart of compassion. But when I refer to a works based salvation I am referring the hellish demonic doctrines of the Catholic Church. And I am not drawing these conclusions about her... these are facts. Her own words. Her personal statement of faith.
And the point I was making when I brought her name up is a valid one... there is NOTHING we can do to earn our salvation. NOTHING.(I love it when you quote me with absolutely no context at all...)
Yet this is not what you're saying or implying with this thread. You're implying that God may overlook her misguided belief in a false religion, and grant her salvation based on what she did. The good works she did.
Well, if thats the case then lets just burn our Bibles because they arent true anymore. (But then, you dont believe the Bible is the inerrant perfect Word of God anyway... so why should I be surprised?)
And people line right up behind you on this thread an echo a hearty "AMEN" to this foolishness. This is complete hogwash.
You want to turn it around to make it seem like I am bashing the dead. I'm not. She is a good example to use when discussing works based salvation. And her own words, her own writings, tell us this.
So I am not saying anything that MT hasnt alread said. In fact, the writings that were released after her death revealed a woman who found hardly any satisfaction in the good works she did when it came to her hope in salvation... because there was no hope for her (or anyone else) in the false religion... the Roman Catholic Church.
Lately there has been a lot compromisers on this forum who have taken me to task on a number of subjects here. More and more there are those present who dont like what I have to say about the RCC. But I'm not going to change what I say. If everyone is in agreement that we need to unite with the Catholic Church (and I am not referring to individual Catholics, I'm referring to the institution), and that it doesnt matter what we believe, and that true and solid doctrine isnt important... then this is no longer the forum for me. I will not be a part of compromise.
| 2008/4/8 12:28|
Ajijic, Jalisco, Mexico
Thanks Krisppy. Of course I agree with you. I must admit I am totally ignorant of any of her writings, statements, or teachings. I based my comments purely on the witness of her actions and compassion. Even with all of that, it is not our place to judge anyone. We can judge their comments using biblical truth as a comparison. But God alone judges each of His servants. They are not ours to judge. It is before Him alone will a man(woman) be saved.
I think I will look up some of her teachings, though, just to be more informed.
Being a "former catholic", I could not agree with you more. There is another post about the worst danger currently on the planet. My comments were that religion far exceeds any nuclear threat. But many so called protestant denoms are just as guilty of their religious teachings as the catholics. It's works based faith, regardless of what kind of garment you dress it in.
All His best, '
| 2008/4/8 12:42||Profile|
| Re: saved??|
it's really none of our business who is and is not saved. it is between them and God.
I posted a biblical response to this earlier.
I would have to totally disagree with you on this comment. It IS our business who is and who is not saved. Jesus told us to "go and make disciples".
If it is not our business of saving lost souls, then I would have to question what you are living your life for? We are called to go witness to the lost, those that have fallen away and even believers alike.
Was Mother Theresa saved? That is between her and God. Is it my responsibility to make sure that everyone, even Mother Theresa knows the truth of the Lord? Yes.
Lost souls ARE your business and every other believers business.
| 2008/4/8 12:54||Profile|