appolus,

I read your post concerning Martin Luther King,Jr. Many highly revere him as a noble leader in the civil rights movement and lament his passing for all he allegedly accomplished during his tenure as a leader.

Now I have one question: how can you revere a person who was an unrepentant adulterer? If any leader in our church Alliance would be guilty of adultery, he would quickly become a persona non grata to the rest of the brotherhood. "1 Cor. 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such a one no not to eat."

What say?

ginnyrose

_________________
Sandra Miller

Hi Ginnyrose

Let me address two issues. Number one, I have no idea if Martin Luther King committed adultery. Here is the extent of what I wrote about Martin Luther King in my piece ....

"When I consider his life and the lives of those who were involved in that movement, I am deeply moved at their courage and the commitment to truth and to justice."

I stand by those remarks. What I was adressing, and what I know to be facts, was the people, just ordinary folk from the south, attacking innocent people. I witnessed that my self on the old news reel from the days. I also saw the national guard lining the streets because some kids wanted to go to High school. I saw ordinary housewives, their faces contorted by hatred, spew out evil on these kids. I saw signs stating that no blacks were allowed in establishments. These are all facts, what is actually known, and what is a fact and what my piece was about was the non-resisting part of the civil rights movement, led by Dr King, which were principals from the sermon on the mount.

So, the word revere is your word Ginnyrose, not mine. Perhaps if you re-read the piece, you will see my point was that if we follow the teachings and example of Jesus, vicious evil is exposed and chains are broken............Frank
PS..The fact that the "Church," was segragated, especially in the south, is a disgrace and a shame to all who profess to be Christians. The least segragated place in this country should be our places of worship, the fact that it was not is a sign of the victory of the world over the church.
http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

appolus,

Slow down a tad bit, please.

Yes, I used the word revere, but if one does not get that sense from reading your piece, he/she cannot understand English!

Again, will you please answer my initial question: how can you hold a person in such high regard who was an adulterer?

Applous, this was common knowledge when MLK still lived and if you google 'Martin Luther King, Jr. women' you can read all about it. His close colleague, Ralph Abernathy wrote about it as well as the FBI.

ginnyrose

EDIT: PS: I lived through this era of time and I am not aware of anyone in our area using the adjective 'peaceful' in describing any of those demonstrations...

_________________
Sandra Miller

Ginnyrose....Not quite sure how you acertain speed. I merely answered, fully I thought, the points that you raised. I revere no man, I believe words to be important, and you placed a word on my lips that I did not use. I do revere the Lord Jesus and "all," of his teachings.

I am not sure I want to get into a debate about how black people were treated in the South, I believe , or believed that was self evident to most Americans, perhaps you have a different opinion?

Let me say that I also admire Winston Churchill, a man that spent a lot of his time drunk. I also admire General Paton, a man with a few problems but a brilliant general. To that list I would add Ghandi.

My piece was about how does one, as a Christian, respond to hatred, evil, bigotry and wickedness, not about Dr Kings spiritual status or his sins, that I know nothing about, nor care for that matter.

PS, Perhaps you read my piece from a different perspective than most?

Being a southerner I've learned I can never win when entering a discussion like this because those not from the south have a preconceived notion about all of us... which is nothing more than prejudice. Kind of interesting to think about, isnt it?

Christian comedian/commentator Brad Stine got it right when he said there are two classes of people in America of whom it is not "politically incorrect" to make fun of... chide... malign... and mis-characterize... Southerners and Christians. I'm both (and proud of it).

Krispy

" those not from the south have a preconceived notion about all of us... which is nothing more than prejudice."

Krispy, I dont care what geographical point on a map that anyone comes from, I find it quite bizarre that Christians would, the only thing that matters is the conduct of those who call upon the name of Jesus. By the way, I formerly came from Scotland, I now belong to, and get my identity from belonging to the new Jerusalem. I am a citizen of a kingdom yet to come, and of that, I am very proud..............Frank

PS, As an aside, did anyone get the irony in the quote?

Hi Krispy...I do understand what you are saying. I know what it means to very proud of ones heritage, the Scottish are famous for it, which is why I mentioned it :-)

Consider this Krispy, is it possible that I have a more even view of it, since I niether come from the North or the South? Of all the replies that I had on this post, from this venue and others, I only recieved one negative view and that was from Ginnyrose who missed the point of the post altogether. Although the post was entitled Martin Luther King, I only made one reference to him. My post was about the revolution that Jesus brought about, not only socially , but right into the DNA of men. And the sermon on the mount blew everything out of the water, it turned man on his head.

Given your response, which is mild brother, I know :-) I think I see an oversensitivity here which may be indicitive of unfinished business from people of the south, I may be wrong, but this is what I feel. When Ginnyrose condemns Martin Luther King as an unrepentant adulterer, perhaps it would be more useful to look at the Christians of the North and the South and see if there may be any unrepentance in our own hearts for our activities , or lack therof , during the period of apathied(a system of legalized racial segregation )

So, my scenaro would be, if you were a Christian, and you owned a restaurant in downtown Jackson in 1964, would you serve African Americans? If you were a Christian and you were a patron of that restuarant, would you still go there if they refused to serve African Americans? You see, whether the restaurant owner or the patron, we have and had a responsibility to do whatever is right and stand on the side of justice. Jesus would never discriminate against any man , neither should we. So a better question for Ginnyrose may be, has all the churches in her area, who either participated or remained silent while injustice took place, repented? We will never know if Martin Luther King repented before he died, but I am sure that most of the churches that existed then, still exist today and that many of the same people still attend those churches. Better to worry about the beam in our own eye(institutinal racism) than the speck in another brothers eye. ..................Frank

Hi appoulos…

I also admire Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. – but perhaps for a different reason altogether.

Dr. King was certainly an integral part of the Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s. Segregation was certainly a terrible evil extracted against nonwhites. To offer prejudice toward a person based solely upon the color of their skin is reflective of a heart that does not know the compassion of Christ. Dr. King’s most lasting legacy is his call for nonviolent participation into society (reflecting the views of Booker T. Washington many years earlier). They felt that men should not be judged by something as ridiculous as their color, but by the character that is reflected by their behavior.

Ironically, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. was not the best example of ideal behavior. His widow acknowledged that Dr. King committed adultery on numerous occasions. He was also prone to fits of anger. Boston University later found that Dr. King had plagiarized at least a third of his doctoral dissertation. There were other men on the committee who claimed that much more of it was plagiarized, but the school feared public backlash or accusations of racism against a well-beloved and deceased civil rights leader. Several historians also question the real extent of Dr. King’s influence in the Civil Rights movement. The movement was already in momentum by the time Dr. King came into the picture. Some feel that he was opportunist who simply assumed the role of a public figurehead. Regardless, it was important that Americans had a face for which they could personify the struggle of blacks in America.

I am an avid collector of speeches. While my hard drive is filled with sermons that I collected (mostly from SermonIndex), I also have collected many speeches from famous men and women from history. Dr. King was a very gifted speaker. His [i]Letter from a Birmingham Jail[/i] is articulate and one of the most powerful arguments that I have ever read. Of course, his [i]I have a Dream[/i] speech is inspiring (even though parts of it were taken from his friend Archibald Carey, Sr.’s speech at the 1952 Republican National Convention).

What inspires me from the man is not his character (which was undoubtedly flawed) or his speaking ability. I am inspired by his tenacity. King boldly stood up in a national and international stage to bring emphasis to the cause of civil rights while still in the face of much criticism and adversity. Dr. King was jailed for this cause, but still maintained singular composure during the experience.

While the cause of civil rights was indeed noble, it is nothing compared to the most perplexing issue facing mankind today. According to statistics, nearly 108 people die EVERY MINUTE in this world. That is almost 2 individuals per second. In the time for the average reader to have read this post, it amounts to approximately 250 deaths. The vast majority of these, sadly, probably enter eternity without a relationship with God. Nearly 60 Million people die each year. As the population of the world grows, so will the death rate. This is a heartbreaking.

When I consider that a simple, flawed man like Martin Luther King, Jr. loudly caused the world to notice the issue of segregation in the United States, I wonder why so little is done about something far more important. Racism will only last a lifetime. The condition of our souls is eternal. Why is so little said and done about this? Why has the modern Church confined the issue into the walls of a Church building whereby forcing sinners to come to them (rather than going out to the sinners)? Why are so many modern churches concerned with physical and emotional comfort is this temporary life? Why do so many preach about “feeling good” while the world around us is damned to an eternal fire? I’ve long thought that if just a thousand true believers could be as inspired and motivated as someone like Dr. King, then the cause of Christ could be realized by far more. As it stands today, few people care or even consider the condition of their own souls and imminent mortality.

One day, we will all be a statistic. 100 out of every 100 people die at sometime in their lives. The ultimate and eternal question is whether or not our hearts belonged to our Creator. Did we utilize our free will in order to live for ourselves? Or did we give ourselves back for the bidding of our eternal King?

I don’t know the details of Martin Luther King’s spiritual condition. In light of his eternal destination, his race doesn’t matter. His theology degree doesn’t matter. His role as a minister doesn’t matter. Even his good works just do not matter. Even his sins just don’t matter. What matters is whether or not he was clean at the time of his departure. Like the rest of us, King’s life was just a vapor and it was extinguished on the balcony of a Memphis hotel room. In that moment, Martin Luther King, Jr. became yet another statistic. While he performed a noble work on this Earth for the cause of civil rights, I’m not entirely sure where King will spend eternity. I’m not sure if he was living in unrepentant sin or if, like King David, this man cried out to God for mercy. Nevertheless, this should be our motivation.

We will all have a time at which our fleshly bodies will fail. Every second, nearly two people come to such an end. Most people do not die waiting for death on a bed. Death comes suddenly and without warning. Yet once it happens, it is appointed for all mankind to face the judgment of the Creator of all things. Who will warn the world of this? Who cares enough to sacrifice their comfort for the sake of making this known to the world? We claim that we care for the lost, but we are not broken over the thought of nearly 500 people going to an eternal Lake of Fire during the course of reading this post. God help us rise up and be challenged and motivated by the love of God to rescue those who do not know our wonderful Lord! You know, this is all that truly matters.

:-(

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Christopher

And so was David, he was an adulterer,

Jacob, not a part time liar or deceiver!

Abraham was faithless b4 he listened

Elijah, looked for serious self pity

Moses disobedience prior to entering the promise

Soloman, duhhhhhh!

Peter hypocrite, racist, you name it of him during his lowest moments. A liar a betrayer

Borthers and sisters,

there is this need to demonize MLK Jr, but look a little deeper...

Appolus, i will say this again,

This will be of offense to whomever

Very shallow people look for the discrepancies in others, it is as if we(christians-critics) hate someone whom has stepped out of their comfort zone for God as if we have a jealousy or lack of life within us.

Expand your righteous minds my fellow christians. The scriptures, the good book, our guide or reference details the lives of many fault-filled, backslidden, mistake laden men and women (mostly men)with their deeds and selfish sinful ways....

Let us allow God to be the judge for what we do not truly know the end result of........

Until one of us is anointed with such anointing to separate wheat from tares, we should truly shut up for God's sake.
Rather we should say, what greatness of God to touch a human, a man, a women.... to stand against the wiles of Satan....

In Christ's name