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IRONMAN
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Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 a few questions

brethren
for all the detractors to what bro Rahman believes he has heard from our Lord, i've not heard anyone address a few questions:

1) how come the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the books on which the called is based as canon scripture? it is interesting to note that they more closely followed after the Jewish traditions than the western Church. not sure how much of a help that is but perhaps something to consider?

2)how come what Jude wrote concerning the angels in the holding place isn't found in the canon elswhere?

3)how come Abraham's bosom isn't mentioned anywhere in the canon but Christ spoke of it not as a parable but as a real place which the disciples knew of?

if nothing else, surely we should at least investigate more closely what is in these apochryphal books?

4) why did God allow such a difference in the development of the canons of the western and eastern churches?

5)perhaps they eastern church has asked themselves this but, is it them (the eastern Church) or is it us (the western Church) which is deceived about all this?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2007/1/22 21:47Profile
DREi
Member



Joined: 2007/1/3
Posts: 10


 This is a bunch of Blasphemy!

Sorry Rahman Reuben but my spirit which coexists with the Holy Spirit is telling me that you have written a bunch of blasphemy! Jesus even said himself that false prophets like you would arise that TRY TO ADD AND DEDUCT FROM HIS WORD(Bible). You're trying to tell me that some secret books of Enoch were given to you and that God hid those books, give me a break. I have one word for you. REPENT!

 2007/1/22 23:26Profile
BeYeDoers
Member



Joined: 2005/11/17
Posts: 370
Bloomington, IN

 Re: a few questions

Quote:
1) how come the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the books on which the called is based as canon scripture? it is interesting to note that they more closely followed after the Jewish traditions than the western Church. not sure how much of a help that is but perhaps something to consider?



Part 1 Ans: I don't know. Not really sure how it's relevant, either.

Part 2 Ans: So what if they followed Jewish traditions? I can see where you are going, but Jesus and the Apostle Paul didn't have much regard for Jewish traditions. Peter did, so much so that Paul rebuked him. Not sure how this is relevant either.

Quote:
2)how come what Jude wrote concerning the angels in the holding place isn't found in the canon elswhere?



Ans: how many times does something have to be found in scripture to be from God? 1? 2? 3? Christ's millenial reign is only taught once but we aren't questioning that doctrine and searching for "hidden" books.

Quote:
if nothing else, surely we should at least investigate more closely what is in these apochryphal books?



Ans: nope. there is a reason they were not canonized. they did not meet the criteria used by the Jews in the compilation of the Hebrew Bible and then by the early church for the canon we have. They had to claim inspiration, be fully accurate in history and geography, be narrative or prophetic in nature (with the lone exception of Proverbs), to name a few.

Quote:
4) why did God allow such a difference in the development of the canons of the western and eastern churches?



Ans: again, irrelevant (at least in this discussion). Why did God allow Joseph Smith to write what he did? It doesn't answer anything.

Now, I have not read Rahman's book, so I'm not going to make premature assumptions and pronounce anything upon him...I'll leave that up to the Judge on that Great and Terrible Day. I just know I wouldn't want to claim something I wrote as being divinely inspired...I'll also leave that to God and stick to the 66 divinely inspired "novels" He already gave us :-)

Rahman: As for your claim that God brought you through JW and RCC so you could use it, that is one of the most ridiculus things I have ever heard. I'm not saying that there aren't wisps of truth in those systems (although belief that Jesus existed and died is about as far as "truth" goes in either one of those religions). But to use those experiences as a proof for something you believe? Come on. Experience must agree with scripture. And JWs and the RCC has little to do with scripture. I did many despicable things as an unbeliever. I'm not going to accuse God of putting me in those situations. It was wrong and it's on my head, not His. He had the good grace to save me and teach be DESPITE such experiences, not because of them.

Grace and Peace


_________________
Denver McDaniel

 2007/1/23 0:28Profile









 Re: This is a bunch of Blasphemy!

Quote:
if nothing else, surely we should at least investigate more closely what is in these apochryphal books?



I have a copy of the Anglican deuteronical book, The Apocrypha - which is included between the Old and New Testaments of the Catholic and Anglican Bibles. The reason they aren't included is because some of the early church fathers doubted they were "inspired"... but they included them in the Catholic Bibles because of their value as "Wisdom Literature". I've read the deuteronical books a few times - but they won't save my soul.

The "Book of Enoch" is not this kind of apocrypha.

The apocryphal "Book of Enoch" floating around the internet and bookstores today is a "gnostic" work. "Gnosis" means "knowledge" and the gnostics were a sort of mystery school that claimed true wisdom and real spirituality was passed down secretly through initiation rites.

You can spot (and avoid) gnostic "gospels" easily by recognising their "fish-hook" lie; that Jesus, Moses, Thomas, and even Enoch secretly taught "mysteries" to their "initiates" that the uninitiated, unwashed masses couldn't possibly understand. You know you're involved in a gnostic lie when:

(a) you can't make heads or tails of a supposed parable; WHEREAS JESUS EXPLAINED HIS PARABLES. CHRISTIANS DON'T HIDE LANTERNS UNDER BUSHELS AND NEITHER DID JESUS.

(b) spiritual truths are only available to the elite, wherein divine secrets are told in an ascending system of degrees; GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS AND EVERYONE CAN BE SAVED

(c) overabundance of detail given to things of a spiritual nature (time, space, colour, number, smell, taste, feeling, hearing); THE PROPHETS SAY "WAS LIKE UNTO" AND "HE WHO READETH, LET HIM UNDERSTAND" WHEN DESCRIBING HARD-TO-DESCRIBE SPIRITUAL DETAILS

(d) you are coddled into thinking you're the chosen one (they love telling you you're going to be a messiah); THERE IS ONLY ONE SAVIOR AND TAKING ANY OTHER PATH LEADS TO DAMNATION

(e) someone "discovers" a secret tomb or scroll that "gives God, faith, and the Bible new meaning" or "enhances the Bible's meaning and purpose"; THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH MY GOD, MY SAVIOR, OR MY BIBLE. IT AIN'T BROKE.

Sorry about the all-caps folks >;')

Theosophists, Anthroposophists, and occultists (occult=hidden) of every stripe use this desception to lure the curious into their web. People read gnostic literatiure out of interest, get confused, walk into a "gnostic bookstore" or a "mason hall" to ask for enlightenment, the fellow he asks tells him about a club that meets once or twice a week... at a lodge, maybe... and he digs deeper and deeper into the "mysteries", and joins this "literary society" or that one... the next thing you know, that "curious cat" ends up in a cesspool of evil.

Hope this helps.

 2007/1/23 0:36
Xtian
Member



Joined: 2006/6/4
Posts: 31
Colorado

 Re: i'm Trusting Him to Work This Out to my Good ... i Know He is ...

Rahman,

I read your reply and I just wanted to let you know that I dont have time to answer tonight. I know your going thru a rough time, but again the key is what does God's word say and command us to do. You do agree that the bible is what we are to measure everything up against, yes?

I am still praying for you, and encourage you to read up on what the bible says about "testing" things. I also want you to ask yourself the question, what is more important... the bible (God's holy word which will last forever), or what a person experiences in their life (if it doesnt measure up to God's word)? Look for biblical examples who obey God's word and those who did what they thot was right, but was not in accordance with His word.

BTW I agree with beyedoers, corey, philogos, etc; carefully reread their replies and take this into consideration. Remember the bible says that if someone has something agaist another brother, then we are to approach with gentleness, and reproach & correct with much scripture (which is what some have done with you). Again please Rahman, take this into consideration, especially since this is how God commanded things like this to be addressed.

Well its late and I have to get some sleep. I will keep you in prayer and try to reply to your post on the evening of 23 Jan.


_________________
Steve

 2007/1/23 1:10Profile









 Re:

I keep posting this with hopes someone will respond to it because I know it to be the sustaining truth and it doesn't violate anything:


01-2006 The Lord Jesus Christ is the first and the last. We were in Him at the first and will be in Him at the last. Between the first and the last we are in the world to become [a son]. The first and the last, He is responsible. The in-between is our responsibility. It is given to us to become as He was in His flesh. Without a vision of the last, we will not become that which is purposed by the Father. The vision of the last is implanted in us from the first. A revelation of the first, the Christ of Glory, brings the vision of the last that will sustain the in-between... which is now. The vision is the understanding of His Grace.

 2007/1/23 10:42
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 AMEN ... COMPLIMENT NOT REPLACEMENT ...



ilive4only1 you wrote;
"Complement means to accompany helpfully (help+full).

A thing is said to be "a complement" to something else, if it is helpful to the other thing.

When any person writes something that they acclaim as being "divinely inspired" and a "complement to the bible" it must be tested against the word."


--- Amen ... That why the novel jacket says "compliment" and not "replacement" ... i'm not the brightest bulb in the lamp but thank God He's illumined me enough to know that to claim a novel a "replacement" for the Bible is ridiculous ...

Blessings in Jesus! ... :-D ---

 2007/1/23 14:10Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 LOVE COVERS A MULTITUDE OF SINS ...


Brethren ALL ...

Wow ... This thread has seemed to explode in opinions, may the love of Jesus pervade and immerse us all in civility of brotherhood ... If it be the Lord's will i can't wait for such discussions to become verbal instead of on forum ...

You know this is a thread that often i've wished i'd never started, but i felt unctioned of Holy Spirit to do so - so i did ...Yesterday i started to write bro Greg and ask him to expunge it, but i heard the Lord in my spirit say, "Don't you do that" - so i didn't ...

Some of you may not see this but i'm finding this whole experience even more humbling toward further death to my "self" ... i say i believe all that i've done, and do, to be part of the Lord's calling on my life, but often i despair at some of the pain it causes me ... Why? ... Because my "self" gets involved, and i react in "self-pity" ... Lord why am i going thru this, what is the point? ... Lord why have you involved me in such, and if i am self deluded why didn't You stop me? ... And if i am deluded then why have you let me go on for so long? ...

It seems to me i'm like a wall, and that via things like this thread He uses some of you to expose my larger areas of where my stones are held in place by my own weak mortar of "self" ... My stones held together by self are quick to weaken, and easily crumble in light of a percieved battering ... When these become exposed He seems to just knock all these stones loose leaving a cavity ... But then He'll cause another saint like sis D, to suggest a book to me called "THE ELIJAH TASK", which i just recieved, that replaces my mortar with His mortar of "selflessness", so that when i percieve a battering i don't react out of my "self", but His "selflessness" ... Self makes me react to defend, argue, and debate ad-infinitum ... Selflessness makes me react that i can only tell you my experiences, and that i don't know the hows, wherefores, and where it's all going, so that when a percieved battering occurs, self stays out of it and i just trust God that He'll make it all plain when He's ready ... To be called a blasphemer is painful to self, but not so to selflessness ...

The opening chapters of this book adressed the very points in which i cried out to the Lord about this weekend ... It point blank said that anyone who believes themselves called of God in the capacity of prophet is not sent to be popular, and is in fact groomed for rejection ... He's told me this before, but being human i'm always in need of reminding ... Dying daily ain't easy! ...

The Bible says that "whatsoever is not of faith is sin" ... Now i know some don't agree with where my faith has taken me and that i'm misguided, again i say this may well be, but i will continue to follow my faith trail until OUR LORD shows me the error of my ways ... The Word says that He's the "author and finisher of my faith", so i trust Him to do so ... It also may well be that all of you who come at me with "concern", is part of His solution to working toward my good in freeing me from error ... But until HE SHOWS ME that for sure, i'm gonna keep on believing how i believe ... In THE ELIJAH TASK it says, like the prophets of old, "The prophet is told the end scene, to find out he knows nothing of how the Lord will actually get us there" ... That's certainly my case ...

- i believe i heard our Lord say that He would make me a spokesman first to His Church, then to the nations ... Why? ... How? ... Exactly when? ... i couldn't tell you ...

- i believe i heard our Lord say that when me ministry takes off it will take a multitude with it ... Why? ... How? ... Exactly when? ... i couldn't tell you ...

- i believe i heard our Lord say to me in my home church "My final Revival is coming and it will begin here" ... Why? ... How? ... Exactly when? ... i couldn't tell you ...

- i believe our Lord caused me to write and publish THE CALLED ... What the significance of this is i don't yet know, don't know why, but i do suspect that somehow it has to do with my becoming a "spokesman" and the bringing in of "a multitude" ...

- The latest thing i believe i heard our Lord say to me is that i am to fund a Christian Philanthropy toward the benefit of His Church, Commision and Charity to the poor, during the coming "correction" ...
If i was wise i would'nt even entertain such a notion, but i'm not because it came from the same voice that i've heard in my spirit that's caused me to act toward all the other controversial things i've said and done over the years ...

Common sense tells me i'm a 56 year old draftsman who made 60K last year, only a fool would believe He's hearing the voice of God telling Him to start something that "gives" massively to provision of God's own ... With what? ... i don't know, tho i suspect THE CALLED has something to do with it ...

To me a double minded man recieves NOTHING of our Lord, no freeing in any direction just a continuous private hell of wavering back and forth, and He says He'd rather for me to be hot in my faith, or cold, but not back and forth ... So i stand pat until He frees me one way or the other ...

i'm pondering on the scripture below much ...

Gal.6
[1] Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
[2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
[3] For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
[4] But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.


Brothers those of you who believe me at fault, in selflessness i can appreciate (and do) how you come at me in attempts of my restoration, and please forgive me in any instance where you feel my rebuttals are less than meek, for again if "self" becomes involved i have to be careful not to react in sarcasm ... And please note that what i do in faith is not because i think myself "something" as in "somebody" ... i'm nobody! ...

But the tail end of this scripture really speaks to where i am, "bearing my own burden", one that i believe our Lord for whatever His reasons has given to me, or allowed me to have, and one that i cannot let go of until He shows me otherwise ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus ... :-D

 2007/1/23 14:12Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 RELYING THERE IS A FORTH MAN IN THIS FURNACE BRO! ...


---Hey bro Ironman ...

i appreciate your heart (and support), but of both we have to be careful of our "motive" ...

You and i both know how easy it is to slip into and react from "hurt" of the "self", but we're constantly reminded by Him via His Word being spoke in our spirits and/or His use of others here on SI what we're not supposed to do or say in reaction to our believed callings ... If we die daily (to self), we can trust Him to resurrect us daily (to selflessness) ... Thank God that He'll soon make it plain ---

You wrote;
"1) how come the Ethiopian Orthodox Church has the books on which the called is based as canon scripture? it is interesting to note that they more closely followed after the Jewish traditions than the western Church. not sure how much of a help that is but perhaps something to consider?"


---The fact that the Ethiopian Church (part of the Eastern Church) follows more after Jewish Tradition than the Western Church (Catholic or Protestant) is not such a good thing in my view in that Paul says under Christ "we're neither Jew nor Gentile" ... In many ways i think this a detriment to the Ethiopian Church, and really drives home the point of why it's so dangerous the "schisms" in the Body ... So this is not a valid concideration from my point of view about The Called ...

While some place at my feet that i'm touting said non-canonical books as a "replacement" for the Bible, that's not what i'm saying at all ... i believe myself led thru the books included in The Called by Holy Spirit, and what i saw were passages that complimented the Bible, that's why on the jacket it states that the first 32 Chapters of Genesis is the skeleton on which hangs the compliments of these other books ... As i was reading thru said books i could hear Holy Spirit instructing me what to include and what not to, the record is in the big book by Charles that i still have ...The Called is a "novel", so how could i promote it as a replacement for the Bible? ...Take out the skeleton, and everything else falls down ---


You also stated;
"4) why did God allow such a difference in the development of the canons of the western and eastern churches?"


--- Now this is something that i find interesting too! ... But again it makes no difference to me whether Western Christianity accepts the books included in The Called as Canon, i believe that's closed ... All i'm saying is apparently (as i've just recently found out) there was a time when said books were very instrumental in the faith structure of Jew and early Christian alike ... That's history, as it's also history that these books eventually came to be designated by the learned men of the Church of Rome as being to "high" and "mystical" to be percieved by the common member of the laity ...

Bottom line is this in my faith and view, God is about to reintroduce a discussion, via The Called, of said books, our He's about to blast me and it out of the water ... If this be the case then it could'nt be soon enough for me, as i certainly wish He's not even allowed me to start if it's not of Him ...

The Called does not point away from Scripture, it points to it ... Of course it would help to have read it to know first hand if i'm/it's guilty of the fears of some ... But irregardless, i don't think anyone has to fear that somehow The Called is gonna in some way undermine and/or overthrow the Bible ... Lord knows Dan Brown has tried with his The DaVinci Code, but the Bible still reigns supreme ...

Another point that's just hit me in a Rom. 8:28 kind of way is that while this thread has been re-awakened by some (whom obviously The Called is anathema) who see it as either "my nonsense" or just "outright evil", it is because of this event that it's experienced not only a spike in hits here on SI, but also a spike in copies obtained (which i can monitor on my distributors page) ... i find that interesting, but wonder if the readers will make any comments here on SI ... Only God knows

Blessings in the love of Jesus Christ ... :-D ---

 2007/1/23 14:14Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 PRAY FOR ME THEN? ...



Hi DREi ...

Blasphemy is serious ... Since you know me guilty of such please pray for me that our Lord will deliver me from such ... (I DON'T SAY THIS FECISIOUSLY) ...

Blessings in Christ Jesus! :-D ---

 2007/1/23 14:17Profile





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