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PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Broclint, thank you for re-posting. I'm glad you saved the original! It contains some good things that I feel need to be said to preserve balance - and who better to voice them than a pastor of the very denomination that is in question?

I also attend a Pentecostal fellowship (Assembly of God) and was until this year a certified minister with them. I was compelled to not renew my credentials because of a conflicting doctrinal stance on the Fundamental Truth concerning initial evidence of Holy Ghost Baptism - a point which is non-negotiable for all AG ministers.

My pastor (who is not a wolf by any long shot) and I sat down one afternoon after he got a call by the district presbyter and discussed the reason I refused to renew for 2008. We had a little scripture volley from Acts 2 to 1 Cor. 14, and finally settled on agreeing to disagree with a sincere, tearful hug and our love in Christ strongly professed to each other notwithstanding this discrepancy. He still wants me to preach and minister in the church.

The thing I'm trying to say is that the "evil" of denominationalism is not as cut-and-dry as some people would make you think. I don't know of any Pentecostal denomination (AG or COG or COGiC or Four Square or Fire-Baptized Holiness or any sister fellowship) that requires its members to tithe. It's [i]ministers[/i], yes - but members, no. There are many men of God in these fellowships who haven't bowed the knee to Baal, and they preach faithfully the full counsel of God each week, and they don't get hung up on denominationalism. The people who get hung up and confounded the most by denominations are those who are not in them, those who try to serve God with a loner mindset - and although they endeavour to do great things, ultimately they have no authority because of their heart-bitternes and refusal to submit to another man's authority. I don't know about COG, but AG churches are not cookie-cutter; each fellowship is unique, and the pastors are permitted to be individuals and not denominational androids as some may think. I've preached in some AG churches where contemporary music is absolutely frowned upon, and other churches where contemporary music makes up the bulk of their praise and worship. It's really a demographic thing; a Pentecostal church in Arkansas will have quite a different flavor from one in, say, Boca Raton, Florida.

In all the churches, however, the only thing asked is that all AG ministers conform to the 16 Fundamental Truths so "error" is not propagated. I'm sure the COG has something similar. There is really nothing wrong with this, as we see even in the book of Acts the early church Apostles having to write a letter and lay down some guidelines to all the churches, informing Gentiles they didn't have to be circumsized, but only to keep from fornication and things strangled, etc. The purpose was not to create a faction or denomination, but to guard from legalism and error. It was a necessity.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/3/29 10:45Profile
broclint
Member



Joined: 2006/8/1
Posts: 370
West Monroe, LA

 Re:

Quote:
PW wrote:I don't know about COG but AG churches are not cookie-cutter; each fellowship is unique, and the pastors are permitted to be individuals and not denominational androids as some may think.

In all the churches, however, the only thing asked is that all AG ministers conform to the 16 Fundamental Truths so "error" is not propagated. I'm sure the COG has something similar. There is really nothing worng with this, as we see even in the book of Acts the early church Apostles having to write a letter to all the churches to inform gentiles they didn't have to be circumsized, but only to keep from fornication and keep from things strangled, etc. The purpose was not to create a faction or denomination, but to guard from legalism and error. It was a necessity.




Thank you Brother Paul for this and the former posts.

I respect your holding to your convictions regarding the genuine Baptism of the Holy Spirit. The time has certainly arrived when the spurious is far more frequent than the genuine. There is all the talk about revival in this, that and the other place and miracles and so forth, but it has not changed the moral climate of the city, the state or the country one iota. That is the vast difference between what is called a “Pentecostal outpouring” and the reality of that revival at the turn of the 20th century in which both our ‘fellowships’ were born. And the revival was not by any means contained in one group but spread all over. May God come down again!

The fact is, as we well know, that each of the revival movements in history resulted in the necessity of having to draw up some form of agreements for fellowship, “thus far we will go and no further” in recognizing one another’s fruit so that those who come in privily as Peter and Jude said not bring heresies, and false teaching among the flock. Unfortunately when large numbers of people begin to sanction behavior that is unscriptural there comes a time when the whole process that started such groups as the Anabaptists, the Methodists, the Assembly of God, the Church of God and etc. starts all over again. That time may well come for me… but thus far it has not.

Even those independent churches if they are to grow beyond their little doorstep, such as the Charity Ministries has, and such as Brooklyn Tabernacle has, they have to set up some general guidelines for fellowship and organization. It was inevitable in the early church, hence their general assemblies as you pointed out to define polity for the whole church, and it is inevitable now.


Some of us remember the when that there was such great fellowship and genuine conviction of sin, and the great miracle of new birth in many of our churches that has lasted till this day, and are praying for salvaging those that can be salvaged rather than as Mike B. so often says “throwing out the baby with the bathwater”. There are precious souls that I do not want to be left to a shepherd that may come in and be in tune with TBN and the whole mess of fruitless and world loving churchianity. The hireling abandons the flock, the good shepherd lays down his life for the flock.


Clint


_________________
Clint Thornton

 2008/3/29 11:14Profile





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