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 Wilkerson Has Partaken Of "Holy" Laughter?

In his sermon, found on this iste, "The Gift Of Righteousness", Pastor David Wilkerson claims that he believes in and has experienced the manifestation os uncontrollable laughter; he claims in this sermon that this was of the Holy Ghost. (Begin listening to the particular sermon in question at 4 minutes)

Now, here's the problem:

Pastor Wilkerson literally blasts the holy laughter movement in his sermonn "Reproach of the Solemn Assembly"; he says, "thousands are dying...what are you laughing about?"

Would someone please explain this apparent contradiction to me?

Daniel

 2004/6/16 9:44
jeremyhulsey
Member



Joined: 2003/4/18
Posts: 777


 Re: Wilkerson Has Partaken Of "Holy" Laughter?

Daniel,

There is a world of difference between laughing for joy in the Lord because He is making you holy, and an unsanctified person manifesting laughter in the face of an unchanged life.



In Christ,
Jeremy Hulsey


_________________
Jeremy Hulsey

 2004/6/16 10:10Profile









 Re:

Amen Jeremy! I agree!

The only problem is that Wilkerson said and claimed to have UNCONTROLLABLE laughter and he SPECIFICALLY said he was NOT coming against the laughter movement in his sermon.
Check the sermon out and get back.

In Christ,

Brother Daniel

 2004/6/17 10:36
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

When I listened to the sermon it seems that it was a bit older compared to some of the more recent sermons. Based upon what I have followed in His ministry I would say that he certainly did not intend to identify himself with what we regard now as the "Holy Laughter Movement" with Rodney Howard Brown and others. Scaling the language barrier is sometimes difficult as we may use similar or identical terms and be pouring different meanings into those words (or catch phrases). When He spoke of his laughter it seemed to be more of a personal testimony of God working in Him something that He certainly did not go to seed on and felt it was an isolated thing given of God for a certain purpose at a certain time. This is WAY different than the Holy Ghost Bartender madness that vexes anyone who is concerned with genuine repentance. Wilkerson has wept much over the years in sermons I have heard and if God in his prayer closet deemed it necessary to pour a very special grace upon him, I would not interpret that as partaking of "Holy Laughter" in the coercive and vexing fashion which those who have promoted and probigated it.

Wilkerson has preached more tears to me than he ever could laughter. Often he silences the crowd when they try to applaud or laugh or something.

As for Jimmy Swaggart; pointing out apparent contradictions in Dave Wilkerson's ministry will not rebuild Jimmy Swaggart's. I have attended his crusades and defended him in the late 80's as so many wanted to see him come down. I have listened frequently to Sonlife Radio to see where Jimmy seems to be in terms of His walk with God and the focus of his ministry. I was priveledged just last year to hear him RARELY discuss his fall into sin and I took some fairly good notes.

Jimmy has historically taken on a lot of people in his time (Jim Baker, PTL, etc.). He is more effective preaching the CROSS. If Jimmy Swaggart is ever to be restored to a place of ministry and repentance and holiness style messages; God is going to have to do it. In the mean time we must refrain from sowing discord among brethren as it is an abomination to God. If there is one thing that really upsets me its to see my boys arguing and fighting. That is a real NO-NO! Is it not also the grief of God's heart?

God Bless,


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Robert Wurtz II

 2004/6/17 11:05Profile
crsschk
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Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re:

Thanks Robert, most helpful!


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Mike Balog

 2004/6/17 11:23Profile
sermonindex
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"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
The only problem is that Wilkerson said and claimed to have UNCONTROLLABLE laughter and he SPECIFICALLY said he was NOT coming against the laughter movement in his sermon.


Brother Daniel I am just wondering what point you are trying to come to? Are you saying that Wilkerson is pro for some of the laughter revival manifestations? I know that he is strongly preaching against the prosperity movement, and I do believe him and carter conlon are firmly against most of these phenomenon that don't line up with the scriptures. I personally was able to go to NYC about 8 months or more ago and I visited TSC and Brooklyn Tabernacle and there was no manifestations such as laughter and the sort but just full-heartly worship and preaching of truth from the scriptures.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2004/6/17 11:35Profile
TheophilusMD
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Joined: 2003/12/1
Posts: 124
New Jersey

 Re:

Quote:
When He spoke of his laughter it seemed to be more of a personal testimony of God working in Him something that He certainly did not go to seed on and felt it was an isolated thing given of God for a certain purpose at a certain time. This is WAY different than the Holy Ghost Bartender madness that vexes anyone who is concerned with genuine repentance.



I was in the church when Ps. David preached that message and, yes, it was a personal testimony of how the Lord made him laugh. I have sat under Ps. Dave's ministry since February 1993 and since Ps.Carter Conlon came to Time Square Church and [b]not once[/b] was there any laughter manifestation in the church like the "bartender madness." That our pastors are against this "movement," as it is called, is both unequivocal and explicit.


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Rey O.

 2004/6/17 12:14Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Wilkerson Has Partaken Of "Holy" Laughter?



I think the following scriptures pretty much sums up the consequences of any Christian not practicing what we preach, and especially those of us in the national and international eye ...


Rom.2
[1] Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.
[2] But we are sure that the judgment of God is according to truth against them which commit such things.
[3] And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God?
[4] Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?
[5] But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
[6] Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
[7] To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
[8] But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
[9] Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
[10] But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
[11] For there is no respect of persons with God.
[21] Thou therefore which teachest another, teachest thou not thyself? thou that preachest a man should not steal, dost thou steal?
[22] Thou that sayest a man should not commit adultery, dost thou commit adultery? thou that abhorrest idols, dost thou commit sacrilege?
[23] Thou that makest thy boast of the law, through breaking the law dishonourest thou God?
[24] For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written.
[25] For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.


Gal.6
[1] Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.
[2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.
[3] For if a man think himself to be something, when he is nothing, he deceiveth himself.
[4] But let every man prove his own work, and then shall he have rejoicing in himself alone, and not in another.
[5] For every man shall bear his own burden.
[6] Let him that is taught in the word communicate unto him that teacheth in all good things.
[7] Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
[8] For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

I'm so glad that our Lord has brought me to such a place of Christian maturity that I no longer stumble when other men of God (whomever) trip and fall (for whatever reason) ... Know why? ... Because my faith, hope and trust is in Jesus Christ alone ... Only He is infallible, sinless and worthy of casting stones ... Amen


 2004/6/17 12:32Profile
TheophilusMD
Member



Joined: 2003/12/1
Posts: 124
New Jersey

 Re:

Quote:
I think the following scriptures pretty much sums up the consequences of any Christian not practicing what we preach, and especially those of us in the national and international eye



Maybe I did not explain it well. It is best to listen again to the exact words said by Ps. David Wilkerson. The reason why he gave the testimony is to differentiate what's happening in the "holy laughter movement" and a genuine experience of joy in the Holy Ghost.


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Rey O.

 2004/6/17 13:57Profile
Rahman
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Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re:


TheophilusMD,

My post was a double entendre of which you may not know about, which has to do with another thread that brother Daniel posted in regards Jimmy Swaggart, and how so many Christians have judged him so adversly ...

So what my post addresses is whether a man of God is fallen from grace and judged in carnal sexual sin by many, or whether he falls from grace by seeming to totally waffle docrinally, in the greater panorama of God's plan our preoccupation with such matters is like our straining at gnats while swallowing camels ... The bottom line being that if any person in God doesn't practice what we preach, adverse reaping is gonna come because it's a universal law of God ... Brother Swaggart has certainly reaped adversly and still is, and right now brother Wilkerson seems to be in question by brother Daniel regarding whether or not he's waffled doctrinally on this horrible laughing revival craze ...

I listened to the sermon in question and was shocked to hear Brother Wilkerson say that he's laughed for hours in the Spirit, and it certainly sounded contridictory to me in light of his withering sermon against said laughter craze ... But are we gonna stumble, and question, and argue, and harraunge, and judge the people of God who trip and fall? ... Or are we gonna keep stepping in our own pace with the Lord, while praying that our fallen commrades will be quick to getting back up in repentance, and be humble enough to accept the fact that their fall is gonna bring them a certain time of reaping adversly ... So here are my main points scripturally, secumb to (in the dark) what you vehemently contradict and it will turn around and ravage you visciously (in the light) ... We reap in spades what we sow ... whatever it is ...

If brother Wilkerson is guilty of having in his eye the splinter of attempting to fit in by becoming one of the laughing boys, then brother Daniel's question is but the genesis of his adverse reaping ... I hope this makes better sense, if not I rest from this thread for I've got my hands full (as the Spirit has so recently reminded me) with this giant beam protruding from my own eye ...


In Him,

Bro. R

 2004/6/17 15:15Profile





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