| Spiritual Drunkeness Sermon|
this is a sermon I had written some time back concerning the issue of being "drunk in the Spirit".....Spiritual Drunkeness: Blessing, Curse Or Judgement?
Grace and peace to you, Beloved, from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ in the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit; may the Lord speak clearly to your heart in this present dark hour concerning the necessity of walking holy in this life before the return of the soon coming King.
Dear reader, today we take our text from Isaiah 29:9-12, which states,
“Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink. For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep, and hath closed your eyes: the prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered. And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed: and the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned.”
1.“Stay yourselves, and wonder; cry ye out, and cry: they are drunken, but not with wine; they stagger, but not with strong drink.”
Brethren, here is a clear picture from Holy Scripture allowing for us to see what is taking place in multitudes of churches today as leaders and congregation members get ‘drunk in the Spirit.”…
The Word of God is clear that what is being spoken of in the above text is NOT alcoholic drunkenness; notice the words “NOT with wine”, “NOT with strong drink.” What else COULD the prophet Isaiah be referring to here? If you can’t see the plain view of spiritual drunkenness in this verse of the Word of God, then you’re blind and deluded in an extreme measure; “they ARE drunken, but NOT with wine.”
Spiritual drunkenness is REAL, Beloved; when you observe entire crowds of church members staggering around the altar and slurring their speech, etc, etc, then don’t you think for one moment that it’s all being faked! God is telling us in no uncertain terms that those who are “drunk in the Spirit” really ARE “drunk in the Spirit!”
Possibly some would say spiritual drunkenness is “fake”, that somehow the people are “making it all up”; that view is totally incorrect according to the above verse which states that they “ARE DRUNKEN.” Perhaps you would believe that this drunkenness is of the devil, that satan is causing this spiritual drunkenness to overtake people; that also is a false view, as we shall set out to prove in this article. Again, there may be some who think that being “drunk in the Spirit” is a blessing that comes from the Hand of the Lord; even this view is in error, in that Scripture nowhere calls this drunkenness some kind of a “blessing”, though it IS from God, which this article will also set out to prove, as we move on.
You see, dear reader, spiritual drunkenness is something that MUST be addressed by those in the Body of Christ, because this particular manifestation has literally spread to masses upon masses of professing Christians throughout the World, and it has not been hindered by denominational structures, literally crossing into almost every crack and crevice of Christendom.
“They stagger, but NOT with strong drink”…
What is this that is causing multitudes to STAGGER about as drunkards? What is really taking place in our churches as we approach the closing of the age just before the Return of the Lord for His Bride?
To those of you pastors and laypersons who would outright deny the reality of this spiritual drunkenness, I would exhort you to let the words of your mouth be few in this matter, simply because your faulty position does not make it’s boast in Scripture.
To those who would suggest that this particular manifestation of drunkenness is of the devil, I would admonish you to search the Holy Word of God, because when you take a proper approach to what the Word teaches, concerning this you will come up quite empty handed in your false view.
For those of you readers who would imagine that being “drunk in the Spirit” is some type of blessing from the Lord to His People, I would challenge you here and now to make your case with an abundance of Scriptural examples of instances where Jesus Christ ever ONE SINGLE TIME caused ANYONE during His earthly Ministry to become so drunken spiritually that they staggered around! You can show no example, because it simply did not occur!
“They ARE drunken, but NOT with wine”…
Entire church services dedicated to having a “party with God”, a “drunken time in the Holy Ghost”! Brethren, what has the Church now come to?!
We Pentecostals take pride in our “Baptism in the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence being the Speaking in Tongues,” and yet now many of us have now somehow received MORE than simply the initial evidence of Speaking with other Tongues! We have gone further into the River of God and have become drunken fools for Christ!
2.“For the LORD hath poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep…”
The Church, instead of being the Light that it SHOULD be, is ASLEEP! But the very frightening thing in all of this is, that it is GOD who hath poured out on the Church the spirit of deep sleep!
While the Church is shouting and ranting and raving about the final, last days “revival”, God has told us that He has poured out upon us the “spirit of deep sleep”… While millions of professing Christians are “drunk in the Spirit”, and while they are dancing and singing about the “NEW THING” that the Lord is doing, in reality its SLEEPING, totally unaware and unprepared for what is coming upon the earth because of the wrath of God!
At a time when we should be locked away in our secret closets of prayer, travailing for the lost, we are “partying with Jesus”, swimming in the “River”! Friend, this is a disgrace to the Body of Christ, a reproach, as Pastor David Wilkerson put it (Reproach of the Solemn Assembly; Pastor David Wilkerson).
The spirit of deep sleep!
Wake up Church! You are dreaming, and I believe soon this “dream” will become a nightmare to those who are caught sleeping when the Lord Jesus Christ calls His Church home to Glory before the 7 Year Great Tribulation.
Do you honestly believe that a bunch of spiritual alcoholics, “drunk in the spirit”, are going to be caught up in the air to meet the Lord?! Just imagine it! Too drunk for Jesus, at least the Jesus of the Bible!
Oh, that that Great Sleeping Giant called the Church would arise to do great and mighty exploits for the King of Kings and for the Lord of Lords! Oh, that the Church would repent of her backslidings that God would grant that the spirit of deep sleep be removed!
The Church as a corporate whole cries out in prayer and in song for “revival”, and yet does she truly mean it? That the Lord God would grant Revival is what I and every true Child of God longs for; yet, are we ready to receive the Spirit of Conviction and Godly sorrow that we might be awakened to truth and to the Righteousness of God? I would dare think not! We seem to be too busy “drinking at the bar of the Holy Ghost”, with little time for diligent prayer and fasting, the kind of prayer and fasting that would revive the Church into the inspired truth of God’s Word!
Awake! Awake! Awake! Oh Sleeping Giant! Awake from your deep sleep and be ye converted BACK to the truth of Scripture, which COMMANDS that we all be SOBER (1 Thess 5:6), “Therefore let us not sleep, as do others; but let us watch and be sober.”
Beloved LET US NOT SLEEP! LET US WATCH AND BE SOBER!
The above verse also is a “slap in the face” to the spiritual drunkard! While staggering around, drunken and spiritually asleep, the Word of God is calling for soberness and alertness!
The Lord has POURED OUT upon you the spirit of deep sleep!
While those that are involved in this spiritual drunkenness are claiming that the Lord is pouring out His Spirit upon all flesh as in Acts chapter 2, God is in reality pouring out the Spirit of deep sleep upon a heretical people who have willingly turned their ears from Truth.
You cannot see because God will not allow it. You will not wake up because you love slumber and sleep; God has poured out upon you the spirit of deep sleep! Oh, that the Lord God Most High would save but SOME from this spirit of deep sleep! That His hand would but snatch a few from this slumber ness!
Brethren, those who sleep, as the Church now is, cannot see what is taking place around them! The Church is dreaming. Beloved! Awake and arise out of your deep sleep, in the Name of Jesus, and turn your hearts to Calvary once more!
Perilous and terrible times are now upon us; Jesus is about to return! Why are you yet sleeping, Church? Why is it and how can it be that you are not watching, not sober?
We, which are alive and remain, shall be caught up! Not we, which are drunken and asleep! (1Thess 4:6-18)
Millions right now are dying and are immediately cast into hell, and the Church is having a “Holy Ghost party”, complete with drunkenness! What shame it is for me to have to sit with pen and paper to rebuke the Church I love so dearly because of Her slumbering!
I would rather that my pen and my thoughts and my words be given over in full surrender to the Preaching of the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) that some would be saved, yet my heart is vexed at what the Church and my true Brethren are involving themselves in!
Awake from out of thy sleep, Oh Sleeping Giant, and be ye converted unto the LORD who hath both wrought signs and wonders and miracles before your eyes! Arise from out of the dust of the earth and walk not in the flesh any longer!
Matthew 25:5-6 “While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.”
Awake, dearly Beloved, and be ye not in slumbering state! Arise and see what you have become while you were sleeping and dreaming; you are become as a drunkard, and the lost of this world are scoffing at you!
3.“The prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered”…
Go no more to the so-called “prophets” of the Church; God hath covered their eyes! They cannot see! They cannot see!
The prophets of the modern Charismatic Church, and some even of the Pentecostal vein, are spewing out lies to the congregation of the LORD, such as the following:
a) God is doing a “ New Thing.” b) God is Bigger than His Word. c) Only those with a spirit of religion do not accept this “New Thing.” d) We cannot get drunk on wine, but we sure can get drunk on the Holy Ghost.
Do these terms and statements sound at all familiar to you, Beloved? If so, it is because your prophets and leaders are false and under a spirit of deep sleep!
The “New Thing” that these prophets are making reference to is the “New Thing” of being drunk in the Spirit and laughing hysterically for hours on end in some cases! The “New Thing” is staggering around claiming that “the Holy Ghost is on me”! One Thing is certain; hear me you false prophet of the people’s making, and not of God’s calling: the Holy ghost IS causing you to become spiritually drunken, but it is clear and in plain view that God is exposing you to His True Church as false, and at the same time He is judging you for your back slidings!
False Prophet, hireling Shepherd, why do you lie to the Church and tell them that this “New Thing” is a blessing God?! Can it be because you are deceived yourself?! Can it be because you lack true power with God and are simply desperate for power in and of itself? Tell me, false prophet, where is your loyalty and integrity to Holy Scripture. Tell me, hireling Pastor, why is it that you have fallen from Grace to accept that which is shameful and disgraceful to the true Church of Jesus Christ?
I speak to the shame of those within my own camp. The prophets deceive Gods people and do cause them to err!
“The prophets and your rulers, the seers hath he covered”…
God hath closed your eyes, oh prophet of the Church! You have become blind and dumb to the things of God! Your eyes are opened instead to that which is not blessing, but cursing; your mouth has been opened not for the Word, but instead for the gain of your own selves! Why is it that you cannot see? It is because you are blind!
Beloved, if God has covered the eyes of the PROPHETS then we are in BIG TROUBLE! Think about it! THE PROPHETS the eyes of the Church (Amos 3:7), are now COVERED.
Oh yes, Beloved, the prophets still prophesy, yet not that which the Lord Himself has commanded!
The Prophets of the Church speak one to the other of the vain imaginations of their own hearts, causing the Church as a whole to err from the Faith!
Heed to none of the words of the prophets who speak “Thus saith the Lord” and then stagger around like drunkards! “But”, you object, “What of the prophet who staggers around like as a drunkard and yet this prophet’s word comes to pass? Surely then we shall know that the prophet is of God!”
Not so according to Deuteronomy 13:1-3,
“If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams, and giveth thee a sign or a wonder, and the sign or the wonder come to pass, whereof he spake unto thee, saying, Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known, and let us serve them; thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for the LORD your God proveth you, to know whether ye love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul.”
Here we have a beautifully painted picture of a false prophet whose sign or wonder DOES come to pass, and yet the prophet himself is not at all of God! Why is this prophet’s word come to pass? It is a test to see whether you love signs and wonders and all manner of deception rather than the Holy God of Scripture.
Prophets for profit! Their words may come to pass, but that is no safeguard from Holy Writ in which to test the prophet! The test, dear reader, is in the prophet’s DOCTRINE.
Jeremiah 23:21-22 “ I have not sent these prophets, yet they ran: I have not spoken to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, and had caused my people to hear my words, then they should have turned from their evil way, and from the evil of their doings.”
The Prophets are to cause the Church to “HEAR MY WORDS!” What word? Of course the Holy Word of God!
What verses of Scripture do the prophets and rulers and seers have when they proclaim and declare to the people “God wants you drunk”?
What Scriptural justification do the leaders of this “New Thing” have when they stagger around like drunkards in church, all the while claiming to speak truth? Beloved, be not deceived by them! Let not your heart be overtaken by the lies and deceptive heresies of their mouths! These “prophets” and “leaders” are false, the Ministers of unrighteousness only outwardly APPEARING as the Ministers of Righteousness:
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 “ For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.”
4)“And the Vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot, for it is sealed….”
Regardless of how many Scriptural warnings are given to even the GREATEST of learned and educated men in the Church today, they CANNOT understand the clear and plain teaching of Holy Scripture, because the Word is sealed to their eyes and therefore CANNOT read of the many warnings in the Holy Writ concerning the many dangers of drunkenness, spiritual or otherwise!
Scholars and Theologians, the LEARNED of the Church, cannot read the writing on the wall concerning this manifestation of Spiritual Drunkenness! No matter what you show them from the inspired word of God, they CANNOT read of the truth of what I am presently writing of here, because the Word of God is SHUT TO THEM because their hearts have chased after false gods and manifestations that the Early Church would NEVER have participated in!
Praise God for men of the Pentecostal faith such as Pastor David Wilkerson and Pastor Joseph Chambers,as well as that wonderful Man of God Pastor Bill Randles, men whose hearts have remained fixed and steadfast in the Truth of the Word of God! These learned men of the Lord are of international recognition and have not had their eyes closed by the Spirit of God, but rather have had their hearts opened and enlightened to the truth concerning this being “drunk in the spirit”, thank God these Men of God have cried out AGAINST this movement of spiritual alcoholics!
Men who have known the Scriptures much better than I EVER will are now yielding themselves over to this spiritual drunkenness as though there were no tomorrow, sipping on every poisonous well that comes their way!
Men and women who held firmly to the Cross of Calvary are now staggering their way through Church after Church looking for their next “drink”! Learned men! Learned women! Those who should know better!
When I hear of those who at one time were sold out to Truth, but are now taking a high dive into this drunken river, my heart can only be broken and crushed at what is happening even to those whom I once had fellowship with!
No one, not even the BEST OF THE BEST, the LEARNED, shall be able to escape this spiritual drunkenness that is now upon the Church, if there be hidden sin, a lust for power and prestige, in the heart!
5)“And the book is delivered to him that is not learned, saying, read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I am not learned…”
What a picture, Beloved! The most learned men in the Church, the great “intellectuals”, cannot read the Book (the Bible) because it is sealed! Now, the Book is delivered over to the novice, the unlearned! (1 Tim 3:16). What a picture of utter confusion and helplessness by a group of spiritual drunkards who are now so “out of it” that they have lost all sense of Scriptural truth and understanding!
When truth is attempted to be interpreted by the unlearned. Then only disaster and spiritual shipwreck can be the result!
Where do you think the cry of “Judge NOT!” came from, Beloved? It came from the UNLEARNED, because the LEARNED of the Church could not themselves read the clear teachings of Scripture! Now we have an entire movement of spiritual drunkards marching to the tune of “Judge not lest we be judged!”
The UNLEARNED have written this demonic “song”, and as a result we presently have multitudes of professing Believers too afraid to test (1John4:1) and Judge (1 Cor 5:12-13; 1 Cor 6:1-5)!
Where have all of the Bereans gone? Where are those who will search the scriptures DAILY to see if the truth of God is being presented (Acts 17: 10-12)?
Have you, Beloved, ever heard a statement that goes something like this; “Touch not mine anointed and do my prophets no harm”? This of course is a constant statement used against anyone who opposes this “New Thing” that “God” is doing now among his people! This is a cry uttered by the lips of the UNLEARNED, because it is they who now have that Holy Book in their greedy hands who use it only to their own personal gain and advantage!
Remember this, Brethren, that BEFORE you quote the “Touch not mine Anointed” verse of Holy Scripture (Ps 105:15), you must FIRST determine, by doctrinal study and proper exegetical research, exactly WHAT the Anointing IS and exactly what the Anointing DOES! There are simply and absolutely NO Scriptures in conjunction with the verses of Holy Writ that speak even a single HINT at spiritual drunkenness!
Beloved, the UNLEARNED are now parading themselves about as though they know the Mind and Will of God!. The will of God, dear friend, is His written Word, and for any man or woman to stand in the Holy Sanctuary of God (the Pulpit as I call it) and declare that “God spoke to me and told me that this is of Him” is pure and certain blasphemy!
Some of you will deride as “done away with” the Gift of Tongues (Mark 16:17-20; 1 Corinthians 12:10) but when the next spiritual “bartender” arrives in one of your highly emotional and sensational church services, you are the FIRST to take a drink of the “spirit”! Unlearned and ignorant in the Word of God!
Beloved, the unlearned are the main leaders, yea, the ONLY leaders, of this so-called “Revival”! Their crippled gospels have produced crippled Christians! Unlearned and ignorant, leading the people astray!
Can you see it now, Beloved? Do you now understand that this “being drunk in the spirit” is meant to CLOSE YOUR EYES? If you cannot see this, you have already fallen asleep, and when the Lord comes again to catch His People away in than Rapture PRIOR to the Great 7 Year Tribulation, you will be found drunken and asleep, and I fear that you may not be a partaker of that Glorious Hope of the Church; remember, Beloved, you must be SOBER (1Thess 5:1-9)! Jesus Christ is NOT returning for a DRUNKEN Bride, but only for a Bride WITHOUT spot or wrinkle or blemish or ANY such thing! (Eph 5:27).
Does the “spot” of drunkenness “in the Spirit” mark YOUR life? Repent in the Name of Jesus and you shall be free! Does YOUR church assembly have the “blemish” of staggering around in great spiritual drunknness and hysterical laughter? Run for your life, Beloved! Don’t look back! Turn NOT from the commandment of the Word in this matter, which says, “Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, and will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.”(2 Corinthians 6:17-18) Has YOUR denomination taken an official position of agreement with the spiritual drunkenness movement? If so, cut ties with them; if you’re a Pastor of a denomination that gives it’s hand of blessing over to the spiritual drunkards of the Church, then I would exhort you this day, as a Pentecostal Brother in the Lord, to send in your resignation and RUN!
Spiritual drunkenness, Beloved, IS from God, but this manifestation is a JUDGEMENT from God on an erring people who have turned their ears from TRUTH unto IDOLS and FALSE brethren and their damnable doctrines and heresies!
In closing, let us now see what the FINAL outcome will be for these spiritual alcoholics:
Jeremiah 13:12-15 “Therefore thou shalt speak unto them this word; Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Every bottle shall be filled with wine: and they shall say unto thee, Do we not certainly know that every bottle shall be filled with wine?Then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will fill all the inhabitants of this land, even the kings that sit upon David’s throne, and the priests, and the prophets, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, with drunkenness.And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have mercy, but destroy them.Hear ye, and give ear; be not proud: for the LORD hath spoken.”
Beloved read and re-read the above Scriptures; this drunkenness is meant to DESTROY! Did you see that? This drunkenness is meant to DESTROY!
Beloved, after reading all of this, having an abundance of Scriptures to clearly present only truth to you, will you yet continue on in this manifestation of spiritual drunkenness, whereby the Lord is JUDGING His People because of their backsliding? Will you yet remain silent on this issue, or will you humbly rend your heart before your God?
“Therefore also now, saith the LORD, turn ye even to me with all your heart, and with fasting, and with weeping, and with mourning: and rend your heart, and not your garments, and turn unto the LORD your God: for he is gracious and merciful, slow to anger, and of great kindness, and repenteth him of the evil.”(Joel 2:12-13)
Beloved, turn to the Lord now with all that you are and cry out to Him by the Precious Blood of His glorious Son, the Lord Jesus, and God will remove the spiritual blinders from your eyes that you have allowed to come onto you through deception and error!
Brethren, may God have mercy on each of us as our hearts remain open only to Him and to His Word.
Maranatha! Even so, come Lord Jesus!
| 2004/6/16 9:40|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Spiritual Drunkeness Sermon|
A couple of things. On occasion there are times when brethren will come along and come barging through the doors with their guns a blazing and it is peculiar to me.
Certainly this is a public forum, but doesn't just plain reason cause us to take into consideration some basic etiquette? Maybe a proper introduction and a getting to know the people who you are amongst, get a feel for what is going on and some consideration for them?
Perhaps if you did take some time to look around and get a feel for these things you would find that yes there is much we would be in agreement on here, but this is not the kind of forum where you can just come in with bombastic statements, there is something in the tone of all this that is troubling:
I would exhort you to let the words of your mouth be few in this matter, simply because your faulty position does not make its boast in Scripture.
when you take a proper approach to what the Word teaches, concerning this you will come up quite empty handed in your false view
What shame it is for me to have to sit with pen and paper to rebuke the Church I love so dearly because of Her slumbering!
I would rather that my pen and my thoughts and my words be given over in full surrender to the Preaching of the Gospel (1 Cor 15:1-4) that some would be saved, yet my heart is vexed at what the Church and my true Brethren are involving themselves in!
We don't have the foggiest idea of who you are, we don't know just who it is you may have addressed this to originally. Why did you feel compelled to share this here? These things absolutely grieve and vex my heart as well and surely you would be hard pressed to find anyone here that frequents this site that wouldn't think likewise.
I guess it is puzzling why this happens, it's as if someone has just barged into your home and started ranting, not the first time it has happened around here.
Also puzzling is this:
At a time when we should be locked away in our secret closets of prayer, travailing for the lost, we are partying with Jesus, swimming in the River! Friend, this is a disgrace to the Body of Christ, a reproach, as Pastor David Wilkerson put it (Reproach of the Solemn Assembly; Pastor David Wilkerson).
In the other thread you inquired about the seeming contradiction as it relates to David Wilkerson, which has now been replied to sufficiently I believe.
As in the other re: Jimmy Swaggart which is the first time in the year I have been around here that I can recall a post having to be locked because of a division being created by the tone more than the content.
Brother this is not that kind of forum. The reason that this site has become a refuge from much of the heated debates that you may find elsewhere is precisely because we are willing to share our hearts, experiences and knowledge in a spirit of love with a goal of edification and exhortation unto The Spirit of Truth.
[i]"But that you, speaking the truth in love, may in all things grow up to Him who is the Head, even Christ; from whom the whole body, fitted together and compacted by that which every joint supplies, according to the effectual working in the measure of each part, producing the growth of the body to the edifying of itself in love."[/i]
It's not all 'Kumbaya' by any stretch of the imagination, but neither is it somewhere were you can just come in with an agenda out of the blue. Your words would carry more weight if you had been around for awhile and we knew more about you and where you are coming from.
| 2004/6/16 11:01||Profile|
| Mike Balog|
Dear brother, I have introduced myself on the forum quite some time ago; I have also come by many many many times (quietly) and have read most posts to get a "feel" for the individuals online at the SI Forum.
As for the sermon I posted...
This was simply a sermon I had written and preached sometime ago.
That sermon posted is a sermon that has literally gone out all over the world with such men as Swaggart and Randles giving thei thumbs up to it; not that I am boasting, but simply making a point that the post wasn't an article I have just introduced or just slapped on the forum out of some mission to "attack".
The Lord Himself gave that sermon to me, and the words of it are led of God, at least according to Scripture.
I appreciate your concern.
Possibly you might like to know more of myself and ministry and walk with God?
I am happy to oblige my Brethren in this matter.
I will post info today at a later time... (I have to go for dinner now).
Pastor Daniel Lirette
| 2004/6/16 11:15|
Santa Clara, CA
| Re: Mike Balog|
I digress that I did see that you did post an intro awhile back and appologize for that omission.
I have also come by many many many times (quietly) and have read most posts to get a "feel" for the individuals online at the SI Forum.
Could understand that, but thing is we didn't know that :-( being that it is only recently we have seen your replies. Perhaps there is just a misunderstanding here, it just kind of struck me that way as I related earlier. Hopefully we can come to a better understanding as you fill us in, I have no desire to be hostile or devisive either.
Sometimes communication can get skewered in these discussions and hence the idea of getting a 'feel' for each other. My apologies in advance if I missed where you are coming from...
| 2004/6/16 11:29||Profile|
| Re: Spiritual Drunkeness Sermon|
I see you like Wilkerson. What do you think of Leonard Ravenhill?
| 2004/6/16 20:35||Profile|
| Like minded in Christ|
I am not privy to the details of the tensions, or if in fact, there is any tension. I would like to share some verses, not that I am condescending or that I have any vantage point, or even any right to quote this but, I will take a leap of faith and pray that your perceive my good intention. There is no guile at all intended.
Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Christ forgave you, so also do ye. Col3:13
Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.~1Col1:10
And again, Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.~Rom12:16
Again, Fulfill ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.~ Php2:2
And once more, I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord. Php 4:2
Your son in Christ
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya
| 2004/6/16 20:53||Profile|
| Re: Mike Balog|
Over the last few years and more so this year there seems to be a madness in the camp and a chasing after the latest phenomena, Christians running after the latest move of God such as the Drunkenness in the Spirit as in the article above, Holy laughter, Healing Wells and the Prosperity Movement of Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and suchlike. Maybe you follow the latest deliverance ministry and are chasing demons in everything. Remember the word says do not be tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine Ephesians 4 v 14
and also in the last days there will arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders
Mathew 24 v 24. I encourage you brethren to step back when you are invited to go along with the maddening crowd and test the spirit as we are told to do in the word of our Holy Father.
I was invited to a certain church last month by a friend who wanted to visit it as she heard it was Spirit filled, the preacher was one I had known 14 years ago whom I had heard had split off from His previous church and now has a seemingly successful church of His own now. However under all the Hype and Fun this personality was preaching heresy, he mentioned just a couple of scriptures in a waffled kind of way to try and prove that We are Christ, us ourselves and that Jesus went to Hell and was Born Again Himself ,that this was the most important thing to grasp. He said it was important to understand this ,as it is the foundation of everything He was very excited and skimmed over certain elements of this Man made Doctrine which includes Jesus taking on the nature of Satan also to overcome Hell for us???? You see in many Churches today the word has been polluted (Jeremiah 2 v 9 - 37) A mix is not acceptable to Our Holy God. Remember Satan is very crafty and subtle and knows the word also but twists its. Are the people really listening or do they have ears to hear and do not hear and eyes to see and yet do not see , have they been blinded so they cannot see because they would rather believe the lie?? It was blatantly said It doesnt matter about Doctrine , forget about that we are to come together in the unity of faith, forget about all the legalists, ( faith in what?) Brethren if it is not in the word it is not of God it is a doctrine of devils . It seems that very few will stand for truth, the reason being that Satan has set up a wall for any one who questions these lying heresies and they are called judgemental, critical, divisive, jezebel etc. We did however question the Pastor if what he was saying was biblical as we are open to be corrected by the word, but he implied that we were operating in Pride and were Judgmental etc. We were told we should change our mind to his thinking or leave, not to pray because we were not permitted to as we are not part of the anointed. My friend said she had never heard of a Born again Jesus and was told very sarcastically that we had heard it there first and then was misquoted scripture, and told to come again very abruptly with a sarcastic smile as if to say dont! We left never to return as Spurgeon did himself. I am glad I went in the sense that I had not realised how much we are truly in the last days, of the last days, so much so it has given me an urgency to be part of this ministry to warn you dear brethren to not sit back and take everything that is dished out to you from the pulpit as gospel . You need to know your bible. The Spirit will lead you into all truth .I am not knocking pastors but we must test what is of God by His word for ourselves, not by our intellect only or by what someone tells you but cry out for understanding by the Holy Spirit. Come into the secret place with just you and Our Father in Heaven. If the pastor is under the unction of the Holy Spirit HE WILL NOT mind you doing this . If you do not know the word for yourself you will take on board anything ,Gods word is true and every man a liar, and it is the truth that sets us free. Not one of the members of this church seemed to realise the error but were excited by it because of all the outward show, the music, the running around, the busyness of all the different activities, works of outreach to do during the week and so much humanism. Today we have Heresy in our churches which seem to be outwardly of the faith cloaked with some truth , if we truly know the word for ourselves and are led of the Holy Spirit and not another we will see that we truly are in the last days where wolves have come in amongst us preaching doctrines of devils, from such flee! We need to sound the alarm!!!! Wake Up!
How can we know what is of God and what is not? We encourage you to seek the Lord with all your heart not the latest sign and wonder and I am not saying that these do not happen we have experienced these things ourselves and seen how magnificent our Father is. Dont get caught up with being busy, our own works are as filthy rags, so know for sure it is God calling you into the work he prepared for you. Dont seek what God can do for you as priority but the Lord Himself and come to know Him, the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth
Look to God not man
. Jesus is the HEAD the church .Colossians 1 v 1 - 22 the Lord will confirm His word to you
. Once you take on one lie and are deceived you may get to believe many others and become trapped in a web of deceit. You get to believing the lie
. Isaiah 59 v 1 - 19. The days are so short dear brethren and we pray that the Lord will open your eyes to His truth.
2 Tim 2:15 Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the work of truth.
1 Cor But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is not judged of no man.
Acts 17 v 10. And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble that those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Many Christians today consider it unloving to test things by the bible and to warn of false prophets also especially if they are named as they should be. The word expressly says:-
John 14 v 23, If anyone loves me, he will keep my word. And my father will love him and we will come unto him, am make our home with him.
John 8 v 31. Then Jesus said to those Jews that believed on Him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free. If you love me you will continue in my word..
Which means to also watch, to discern , to test, to judge. To walk in love means you watch out for others not just yourself and stand for the truth when it is necessary. It seems that pointing out the problem becomes the problem, and the one who sees the error is called divisive.
We are to lead each other to Christ Alone and not each other or a famous personality preacher but to Christ who is our all in all.
In this dim world of pious sentiment all religions are equal and a man who insists that salvation is by Jesus Christ alone is a bigot and a bore. So we pool our religious light, which if the truth is told is little more that darkness visible; we discuss religion on television and in the press as a kind of game, much as we discuss art and philosophy, accepting as one of the ground rules of the game that there is no final truth and the best religion is a composite of the best in all religions. So we have truth by majority vote and thus saith the Lord by common consent.
One characteristic of this sort of thing is its timidity. That religion may be very precious to some persons is admitted, but never important enough to cause division or risk hurting anyones feelings. In all our discussions there must never be any trace of intolerance; but we obviously forget that the most fervent devotees of tolerance are invariably intolerant of everyone who speaks about God with certainty. And there must be no bigotry, which is the name given to spiritual assurance by those who do not enjoy it.
When men believe God they speak boldly. When they doubt they confer. Much current religious talk is but uncertainty rationalising itself and this they call engaging in the contemporary dialogue. It is impossible to imagine Moses or Elijah so occupied
.A W Tozer Man The Dwelling Place of God .
Isaiah 59 v 1 -19
Behold, the Lords hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear. But you iniquities have separated between you and your God and your sins have hid his face from you, that hw will not hear. For your hands are defiled with blood and your fingers with iniquity, you lips have spoken lies, you tongue hath muttered perverseness. None called for justice, nor any pleaded for truth; they trust in vanity, and speak lies; they conceive mischief, and bring forth iniquity. They hatch cockatrice eggs and weave the spiders web, he that elated their eggs diet, and that which crushed breakout out into a viper. Their webs shall not become garments, neither shall they cover themselves with their works ; their works are works of iniquity and the act of violence is in their hands. Their feet run to evil and they make haste to she d innocent blood; their thoughts are thoughts of iniquity wasting and destruction are in their paths. The way of pace they know not and there is no judgment in their goings, they have made them crooked paths, whosever Goethe therein shall no know peace. Therefore is judgment far from us, nether doth justice overtake us. We wait for light, but behold obscurity for brightness, but we walk in darkness. We grope for the wall like the blind, and we grope as if we had no eyes. We stumble at noonday as in the night , we are in desolate places as dead men. We roar like bears and mourn sore like doves. We look for judgment, but there is none; for salvation but it is far off from. For our transgressions are multiplied before thee and our sins testify against us. For our transgressions are with us and as for our iniquities we knouted; In transgressing and lying against the Lord, and departing way for our God speaking oppression and revolt, conceiving and uttering from the heart words of falsehood. And judgment is turned away backward and justice standeth afar off. For truth is fallen in the street and equity cannot enter. Ye truth faileth and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey. And the lord saw it, and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor, therefore his arm brought salvation unto him and his righteousness, it sustained him For he put on righteousness as a breastplate and a helmet of salvation upon his head, and he put on garments of vengeance for clothing and was clad with zeal as a cloak. According to their deeds accordingly he will repay, fury to hot his adversaries, recompense to his enemies to the islands he will repay recompense. So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west and his glory form the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.
Our God is a merciful God and always warns before takes action . We will all stand before God on Judgment day and give account . If we do not speak forth with Boldness those things He has shown us we will be blood guilty.
I believe the Lord gives us direction according to His word if it does not line up with the Word then do not accept it. Do not add on or take away
This Word came to me February 4th 2003 and it is relevant for us today.
Thus saith the Lord. Rend your hearts and not your garments - not your works but yourselves, then I can use you as vessels of pure gold. Lay self on the altar, not just your tithes, your offerings are a putrid smell to my nostrils they are filthy rags appealing to emotions. Speak My word alone. Do not clutter my Holy Temple with things of man which lack the power of God. My word is Truth - My word is a two edged sword and yet you have chosen to delight in things of an earthly nature. You have remained earthbound. Unless you come up higher where I am you will continue to be tossed to and fro with every wind of doctrine. Come up Hither and I will show you what will shortly take place. Enter my rest. Enter ye the gates with thanksgiving and praise. You have taken my word lightly in the days of darkness. My word is a light, do not hide the light under a bushel but let the light shine by being washed and purified by it not whitewashed. I am calling my church to repentance of pride of being ruled by self and not the Holy Spirit.
The Grace of Our Lord Jesus Christ Be With You All
| 2004/6/17 0:21|
Santa Clara, CA
Over the last few years and more so this year there seems to be a madness in the camp and a chasing after the latest phenomena, Christians running after the latest move of God such as the Drunkenness in the Spirit as in the article above, Holy laughter, Healing Wells and the Prosperity Movement of Benny Hinn, Kenneth Copeland and suchlike.
My, there is obviously some confusion here. Being that your reply appears to be regarded to myself, let me try and clear this up a bit.
All that you mentioned above is much of what I came out of a few years ago now and if there is anyone that is adamantly opposed to all this heretical, blashepmous false teaching it would be myself and there is more than enough evidence to go around here to attest to that.
Here's my testimony if your interested:
[url=http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=438&forum=44&7]When Jesus came into my life.[/url]
Maybe you follow the latest deliverance ministry and are chasing demons in everything.
Not by a long shot...
Curious statement there, not sure where that comes from nor what it is supposed to mean as it applies here.
I encourage you brethren to step back when you are invited to go along with the maddening crowd and test the spirit as we are told to do in the word of our Holy Father.
While I appreciate that comment wholeheartedly am again curious...Have you had much of an opportunity to peruse this site? We would most certainly be far far away from the maddening crowd.
Here's a sampling of thoughts on all this maddness:
The confusion here is not in content as it apllies to the original post, but in attitude, at least that is how it struck me. Don't want to add to the confusion here, but perhaps if you were to re-read it (the original post and follow up's)in this light that may help to eliviate the confusion. AND, am still hopeful that more light can be shed on where the original poster was coming from. There is no disagreement whatsoever with the issue of "Spiritual Drunkeness" and the way it was applied to all the nonsense of our day.
If anything, the latest 'delievrance' ministry would be to drive away the lost sheep from these false teachers, not into there hands...
| 2004/6/17 9:10||Profile|
Ravenhill? I like Ravenhill...I like Wilkerson.
The only thing i must make mention of is that these, as all of us, are mere mortal and fallible men.
I must say that Christ is the best Pastor there is; if it's in His Word i'll soak it up...if it's not, i'll throw it out.It makes no difference if it's Ravenhill, Wilkerson, Paris Reid or anyone else.
We're all human and we all mess up from time to time.
| 2004/6/17 10:42|
"The only thing i must make mention of is that these, as all of us, are mere mortal and fallible men... we're all human and we all mess up from time to time."
Ok, I agree. Glad to get that straight.
"I must say that Christ is the best Pastor there is; if it's in His Word i'll soak it up...if it's not, i'll throw it out."
If I was to use your principle here, wouldn't I be forced to throw out your sermon of spiritual drunkenness? Sure, you reference Isaiah but there's no clear connection with that passage and today, as far as I can tell. It's your "prophetic interpretation", right? I think it's much clearer, biblically, to look at Acts 2:13-15 and Ephesians 5:18 and logically make conclusions in favor of "spiritual drunkeness" based on those. Of course there might be arguments against such conclusions, but at least they seem to be far better founded scripturally than your interpretation of Isaiah 29.
You mentioned that the Lord Himself gave you the message. Would you mind giving a fuller description of this experience? I am assuming this is the reason you feel so free to speak with such force on the issue. Is this correct?
" if it's in His Word i'll soak it up...if it's not, i'll throw it out"
Is this principle in His Word?
| 2004/6/17 22:54||Profile|