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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, a second experience?Why you must be.

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Zionshield
Member



Joined: 2007/2/13
Posts: 135
Ohio

 Re:

I see, having read over my post, how easily it would be to think I referred to the main topic as non-essential. May I assure you that I consider it of great importance and essential if God would use us as a vessel of honor. I am pumping water out of the basement so I can light the pilot light so we can have heat tonight...so I will reply another time.


_________________
Randy Lambert

 2008/3/19 22:44Profile









 Re:

I am not totally sure what EJG is trying to say, seems like a mixed message, but perhaps I am wrong.

Quote

"God will operate in our lives in such a fullness that we wont even realize that something extravagant or celestial took place, it happens in reality as we desire him. He takes hold of us, and we lay hold of him, and he crushes us with love and burden for a sinking church and world around us.....

We tend to want something deep or RECOGNIZABLE, but God operates in reality, in such a truth, that waht we r looking for could ACTUALLY have happened already, but we missed it!"

If EJG is talking about the Holy Spirit and the presence of God, then I totaly disagree. Its an experience, it is real and it is unmistakable and it is operates outside of this reality, it is otherworldy, although this world will reap the benefits of our having been there. Listen to what Tozer says....

Quote

There are many people in our churches who would like to think that they are filled with the Holy Spirit—even though they don't know it.

This is a most shocking thing, and I am sure that this is one of the attitudes through which Satan opposes the doctrine of the genuine Spirit-filled life. And yet, our people don't want to hear too much about it.
Let me say that I do not find in the Old Testament or in the New Testament, neither in Christian biography, in Church history or in personal Christian testimonies, the experience of any person who was ever filled with Holy Spirit and didn't know it!
I can be dogmatic about this on the basis of deep study: No one was ever filled with the Holy Spirit who didn't know that he had been so filled!
Furthermore, none of the persons in the Bible and none that I can find in Church history or biography was ever filled with the Holy Spirit who didn't know when he was filled. I cannot find that anyone was ever filled gradually.
Now, as I said, Satan opposes the doctrine of the Spirit-filled life about as bitterly as any doctrine there is. He has confused it, opposed it, surrounded it with false notions and fears. The devil knows that if we will just say that we want to be filled gradually, he will have no more worries from us—because that process is so slow. You might encourage yourself: "Well, I am a little fuller today than I was yesterday," or at least, "I am a little fuller this year than I was last year."

This is a place for carnal creatures to hide. It is a place for carnal church members to hide. In the Scriptures, it was never a gradual filling. It says that He fell upon them, He came upon them, He filled them—it was an instantaneous act.
You may say, "Well, I am going to be filled gradually!"
I answer, my brother, that you are not. You are going to be filled as an act or you are not going to be filled—you can be sure of that!
—Counselor, The

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com



 2008/3/19 23:49









 Re:

Denny Kenaston: "Enduement of Power: How it is obtained"

Click here:
http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=12580&commentView=itemComments

 2008/3/20 3:58









 Re:

My dear brother or sister appolus,

I believe that u might have misunderstood my post, but that is no problem at all, I 'll explain further;

If one doesn't KNOW what is taking place with them it is bcuz they are just that unaware of what exactly is taking place. Now, some may seriously argue with me on this and I do not particularly care about differences here, its inevitable considering the consistency of "such" gospel in this day in age in which we have received. God knows that the church's theology is muttered and confused, and above all not mingled with faith. So where does this leave us? much of what is pure and holy has to be shown to us by God's spirit, we need to be revived and refreshed bcuz we have been lulled to sleep with our doctrine.

The holy spirit is given to the one that is totally yielded as I said in my post, but it seems like whenever someone comes on SERMONINDEX.NET with an experience that one has in ones own life, as well as how one has come to sincerely know GOD, and how he has clearly dealt with them in their life, someone says or knocks that person by stating "thats not scripture or that doesnt make sense". That does not mean what they have experienced isnt authentic or from heaven.

Also, AW TOZER was a man, and God is GOD, and even Tozer doesn't have or had all the answers.....All of our specific questions and scenarios or experiences arent outlined for YOUR or MY pleasure in the "WORD".

Man or Woman, the Letter does really kill, only the Spirit of Christ brings life and truth...

Do not be so quick to judge or quote to me what another man(flesh) here on this website or in history stated from his experience or conviction. I gave to u my experience after some 25 yrs, not what the law of the spirit is written in stone declared, only my experience as input not as an argument.

What I said about a a gradual experience was also misunderstood, God delivers us to nothingness as we pray and desire it, but also, nothingness can come without desiring it or even wanting it, the spirit is working in the sinner prior to their conversion, so does he work in us in ways that we cannot understand all the time. that is why we are to trust, trust and continue trusting that he is working and willing his good pleasure in us. The apostles as well as other saints were absolutely ready for such blessing, so they received what Jesus gave them freely not with the world in the other hand to fight with them. Judas mingled with world and the word, but he received what he truly wanted, "the World"....

Let me say this, one should know when the Holy Spirit is beckoning and calling them to be saturated and full of God's spirit, but we tend to be too deep in christendom, we are men and women just like them in the scriptures, able to be touched, filled and blessed by God's presence and power , but we must yield to such powerful working, they yielded totally so they saw the benefits, the watched God bring down the blessing through them, DO WE?

We r zealous people, but so zealous that we bcome renegades with the word of GOD, we use it improperly and many times for our own sinister and indirect methods. it isnt our word, nor is it for us to be defended by or to defend it! It is God's, who reigns forever...

My previous quote, "We tend to want something deep or RECOGNIZABLE, but God operates in reality, in such a truth, that what we r looking for could ACTUALLY have happened already, but we missed it!

" Why do we miss such spiritual maxims and moments in our life bcuz we read the letter to plainly in the word but we bcome Blind and blinded guides that strain at a gnat and swallow a camel. Now, Im not here to prove anything to u or anyone else, I have gotten beyond that trying to change someones mind or get them to see what I see, you are to pray never to stop praying for that in which U desire of and from God!!!!!

Look brothers and sisters, I do not want to argue this or that, such arguing is straining, devisive and never uplifting, just confrontational!!!!!! It is not edifying bcuz it appears as though on SERMONINDEX>NET , we r always looking for a vent, a clarification, a correction or some self-righteous input to place us above the rest, it just continues to reveal how that Christ isn't glorified!!!


Love for u, Love for u all







 2008/3/20 11:12









 Re:

May we all be endued with power from on High to the glory of God..........Frank

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/3/20 11:13









 Re:

Justification by faith is what most people tend to want to stay at, they don't want to go on and receive the promise which was promised to Abraham and spoken of by the law and the prophets. The PROMISE of the holy Spirit many do not want. It's amazing really, I mean this was the whole issue of the Gospel, Christ in you the hope of glory. The joy that was set before Him, He endured the cross for the very thing that we now possess - God in us! The cross was the means by which we can come back into right relationship with God, the issue with God and man was sin and disobedience it separated them. The promise of the holy Spirit is to sanctify us so that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful, working death in me by that which is good. God wants sin to come to the surface, the besetting sin, our minds need to be transformed by renewing with the washing of the word and renewing of the holy Ghost. Frankly, I don't know how anyone can be renewed if they have not the holy Spirit and how can they be sanctified if they have not been baptized in the holy Spirit?

A brother of mine whom I have been in contact with in another province adjacent to mine has been hungry to be filled with the Spirit. It was totally amazing to me because months before he had argued tooth and nail how that the holy Spirit baptism was not meant for us today. I presented to him scripture after scripture to no avail. He mocked the speaking in tongues and put down anything that was against his baptist theology. Finally I gave up and gave him to the LORD, with a prayer that only He can show him the truth. He was telling me the other day that he has been so hungry to be filled with the holy Spirit, and how he can't get enough of the word. He was telling me last evening that he just keeps asking to be filled. Reminded me of myself.

A word of caution for those that resist the PROMISE of the holy Spirit:

Quote:
Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

Remember the baptism of John?

John's baptism was an allegory it was shown to us how that Christ would baptize the believer as John said
Quote:
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Paul confirms this in Acts 19. He asks a pointed question,
Quote:
Acts 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

Paul met them as believers, they were saying they were believers and Paul questioned their baptism (not water). And Paul says something remarkable here and this is the confirmation of John said.
Quote:
Acts 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, [b]that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.[/b]

Why is this important??

It's important because JESUS IS THE PROMISE THAT SHOULD COME. Paul is making a clear distinction between the baptism of John and the baptism of the holy Spirit. Once these disciples new the truth, they were immediately baptized in water and then Paul laid his hands on them and they were filled with the holy Spirit and spoke in tongues and prophesied.

If you stop at water baptism, and resist the holy Spirit baptism, your rejecting Jesus Christ. Your mind says your not but your spirit is in rebellion.
Quote:
Isaiah 28:11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: [b]yet they would not hear[/b].

"This is the rest". Jesus said "come unto me all ye that labour and are heavy laden, AND I WILL GIVE YOU REST". When this sign of stammering lips and another tongue will He speak to this people come, it was to show us that the rest (holy Spirit) had come.

 2008/3/20 11:21









 Re:

EJG writes

Quote

Do not be so quick to judge or quote to me what another man(flesh) here on this website or in history stated from his experience or conviction. I gave to u my experience after some 25 yrs, not what the law of the spirit is written in stone declared, only my experience as input not as an argument.


Check the post EJG, I did not judge you, I simply stated that I did not really know where you were coming from or going with your comment for that matter. I did say that if you meant what I thought you meant in one particular part of your post then I disagreed with you. Which I still would. If you believe that if someone disagrees with you, whether you have been a Christian for 5 years or 25 years, that this is divisive or argumentative, then I stand guilty as charged.

On the point of Tozer, I quote him because I know that on Sermonindex he is highly thought of, and righty so I would say. This particular post EJG is about Baptism in the Holy Spirit as a second and distict event in the life of the believer. If you want to start a post of sanctification then of course you are free to do so, I would just like to keep the post focused on the subject at hand because I believe it to be of vital importance..........Brother Frank

ps This is not about you or me brother so I would appreciate any comment you may have on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit being a second and distinct experience. If you have any questions for me alone, please feel free to e-mail me privately, you can find my e-mail at my website.

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/3/20 11:32









 Re:

I am too referring about the baptisim in the holy Spirit, what a glorious event and moments in the lives of believers?

This is what I mean brother about judging;

We put in our own minds or our thoughts a notion or methodolgy about what was said or how it was said, but the Heart my brother, the heart stands open wide open b4 God no matter how we proceed...

I didn't mean the "all famous response we use, " Dont judge me" , but for us to b careful how we simply judge and characterize, period!

Love u brother, but I have come to despise the way in which we attack or approach one another here @ SI....
I love u brother, and I wish I could meet u... Because, I want no problems with my brothers and sisters, just true fellowship. I really have love for the people of God. Just think, We are suppose to spend eternity with each other, we r to rejoice with one another. Love u appolus

 2008/3/20 11:49









 Re:

Quote:
I love you brother, and I wish I could meet you... Because, I want no problems with my brothers and sisters, just true fellowship. I really have love for the people of God. Just think, We are suppose to spend eternity with each other, we are to rejoice with one another. Love you Appolus

My dear brother EJG, certainly we are going to spend eternity with one another. But not everything is to be always lovely dovey. There are moments that when a harsh word seems like there is no love in it at all. But I have found that an
Quote:
Proverbs 27:5 Open rebuke is better than secret love.

If you have been rebuked by another, it's for the betterment of your soul, it's not to bring you down and condemn you. Now I don't know Appolus intentions in speaking to you, you'll have to judge that for yourself. I am just commenting on the "love" part of your message and saying only that "love" comes in different types of packages. When you spank your child on the buttocks your not hating the child your correcting the child and that is love.
Quote:
Hebrews 12:6 For whom the LORD loveth He chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom He receiveth.

And then we have other types of loves where we are engulfed in His tender mercies, and where our fellowship with one another is sweet.

We should be at peace with all men, but don't compromise on the word. I am not saying you are, just adding a thought.

God Bless You 8-)

 2008/3/20 12:06









 Re:

Love is the greatest of all, but I simply think we all here are so quick to cast a word, a judgement , or for that matter non-constructive criticisim upon others here @ SI. Some of the Love seems to somehow LOOK for an occasion to rebuke and openly display here @ SI.

I agree with u compliments, but I have simply learn to love the brethren. Early in my sainthood and various experiences with saints, if u will, I despised being around the saints, but through prayer I have learned that there is no greater fellowship on earth. Even though the brethren can be earking and obnoxious also at times, Christ teaches us that this a part of the mastery of fellowship with HIM. For fellowship with the saints is of the utmost in our love and fellowship with God.

Yes indeed, being a father of 2 boys there's harshnes or tenderness, and your right, it is still love!

No things arent lovey dovey, but our goal should always be to find peace with God and with Man if at all possible.


blessings

 2008/3/20 14:09





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