Hi KrispyYou didnt read the post, did you? :-) If you did you would know that this quote, which you and I both requoted is a quote of brother Tozers not mine(I only wish that I could write like him)QuoteWell, my brother, I will not be frightened out of my rightful heritage. I will not be scared out of my birthright because some others didn't know what to do with the birthright or have found something else that has nothing to do with the birthright. I want all that God has for me!As for "newer members," I think you have me beat by 10 months :-) You may disagree with Tozer, I , and I believe many on this site would treasure his opinion as one well thought out based solely on Scripture. For the record , I have had many "experiences," with the Lord. I treasure His presence, and His presence is an experience I could not, and would not want to live if I only had religion or another philosophy. Tozer says..........In that regard, I want you to know where I standit is important and I want to say it plainly. I want the presence of God Himself, or I don't want anything at all to do with religion. You would never get me interested in the old maids' social club with a little bit of Christianity thrown in to give it respectability. I want all that God has, or I don't want any.I want God Himselfor else I will go out and be something other than a Christian. I think the Lord had something like that in mind when He said, "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth" (Revelation 3:15-16).Counselor, The
The manner in which we proclaim what we believe can discredit what we say when we deliver it in the following spirit: I can't possibly be wrong (pride), I'm going to fight, not discuss in meekness, but fight with all my rough edges, anyone that disagrees (recklessness), I'm not going to consider any other possibilities (which means that I must disregard certain scriptures that may or may not contradict my belief)(pride), I'm going to display my willingness to bring division and make jabs at my opponents (not brothers for whom Christ died, but opponents), etc...I hope no one takes this as a personal attack. It has far too often been true of me. It can happen to all of us. I used to jump into a conversation and set everyone straight on right doctrine and let everyone know where they were wrong. I have to watch over my spirit on these matters. I have rarely seen a discussion on essentials where we disagree, brethren. Are nonessentials worth the division that they cause so often? I would like to have discussed this topic, myself, but I dare not enter into it presently. I will only say this. There are guidelines to follow when intrepretting scripture. If there were one person I'd point to to be helped in knowing (or at least consider them)these guidelines I would point to the man that the late Stephen Olford referred to as knowing more about the Bible than anyone he knows...that would be Jeff Adams. For my part I pray that the Holy Spirit may apply to me, subjectively, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus that Christ be revealed..thereby being glorified.
Zionshield writes............I used to jump into a conversation and set everyone straight on right doctrine and let everyone know where they were wrong. I have to watch over my spirit on these matters. I have rarely seen a discussion on essentials where we disagree, brethren. Are nonessentials worth the division that they cause so often?I would say Zionshield that you are more than welcome to jump in and comment on the post, what you agree with, what you do not and why, that is the point of discussion and clarification. I would also agree that non-essentials are not worth the division thay they cause, a good example would be whether one is a pre-tribber or mid or post. Whether Baptism in the Spirit is a second experience, vital to the Christian walk, I would definately not categorize as a non-essential. It is the issue of the day. I think most on SI would agree that the state of the Church is dreadful and that we are all praying for repentance and revival, a revival of brokeness and humility. I would argue, and I think men like Tozer would agree, that it is precisely because Christians are not walking in their rightful heritage that the Church has lapsed into its present state.........Frank
You didnt read the post, did you? If you did you would know that this quote, which you and I both requoted is a quote of brother Tozers not mine(I only wish that I could write like him)
Are nonessentials worth the division that they cause so often?
That makes sense Krispy, my apologies for not being clear enough when I quote......Frank
Well said PassingThru.......Frank
If the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is part of God's provision for the believer we should be cautious of classing it as a nonessential (if that's what you meant).
They Found the Secret by V. Raymond Edman20 mini testimonies of great men and women of God and their 'second experiences'. Real challenging stuff which had the affect of focusing me on the need for the inner filling from the Holy Spirit.Will look up that Tozer material Appolus - thanks for the info! :-)
Here is what I'll add in direct proportion to my relationship with the savior through experience and 2 1/2 decades of life with HIM;I was Catholic, then pentacostal, and now I just want Jesus everyday. I have found that the pentacostal church taught me that I had to speak with other tongues as the spirit of God igves utterance, and I believe I did with passion and much emotion regardless of the naysayers. Nevertheless, I will say this, I am convinced that this is not a show of whether one is saved or not, nor will I say it is at all mandatory or for that matter will ever happen to anyone else again. But, I can tell u that God's Holy Spirit is given to the one who is yielded and ready to allow it to manifest from their lives.....Other that the above, I am convinced we are doing anything on behalf of God in our own strengt! The Holy God that we know of is not confusing or haphazardly functioning in our lives, but we have to desire that gift in which will be poured out upon us when we want it with our whole heart, and Christ knows that heart!God will operate in our lives in such a fullness that we wont even realize that something extravagant or celestial took place, it happens in reality as we desire him. He takes hold of us, and we lay hold of him, and he crushes us with love and burden for a sinking church and world around us.....We tend to want something deep or RECOGNIZABLE, but God operates in reality, in such a truth, that waht we r looking for could ACTUALLY have happened already, but we missed it! THis is one of the reasons why we must come daily to this dwelling place such as the likes of Moses.Even Moses didn't realize what was happening to him as much as the other people around him that actually SAW and experienced the changed and broken heart.For example, Moses, on any other day would have never ask God to spare the lives of the stiffnecked race of people unless the spirit was resting upon him or in him, however one likes the phraseology! God broke him, and the spirit was taking over him, yet Moses desired God's presence over even his very wife and child! He really does torch us with his fire,and it can never be fully explained or understood how you and I got here in that sense. All we can say fora cetainty is that he is in Love with us, and he proved it! Oh God I am whelling up right now at just the thought that his affection for us is still magnificent 2000yrs later.Love you all