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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, a second experience?Why you must be.

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 Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, a second experience?Why you must be.

This is a particularly difficult subject for many Christians, and not for Biblical reasons. The texts seem plain enough, and anyone who reads Acts 2 without any pre-conceived notions would come to the conclusion that the Baptism in the Holy Spirit is , without doubt, almost always a second experience.

Why is there so much fear and division surrounding this subject? I believe that so called "fanatics," and down right weird people have done much of the damage and that it is actually a scheme set by the enemy to keep us away from the power that the lord want to endue upon us. Consider what brother Tozer says in "The Counselor."..........

Satanic Strategy
This is a crude illustration, but let me tell you what we did after planting a field of corn when I was a young fellow in Pennsylvania. To save the field of corn from the crows, we would shoot an old crow and hang him by his heels in the middle of the field. This was supposed to scare off all of the crows for miles around. The crows would hold a conference and say, "Look, there is a field of corn but don't go near it. I saw a dead crow over there!"
That's the kind of conference that Satan calls, and that is exactly what he has done. He has taken some fanatical, weird, wild-eyed Christians who do things that they shouldn't, and he has stationed them in the middle of God's cornfield, and warns, "Now, don't you go near that doctrine about the Holy Spirit because if you do, you will act just like these wild-eyed fanatics."

Because there has been a lot of this weird stuff, God's children are frightened, and as soon as you start to talk about it, they run for cover. They say, "Oh, no, none of that for me! I have seen dead crows out there in the middle of the field."
Well, my brother, I will not be frightened out of my rightful heritage. I will not be scared out of my birthright because some others didn't know what to do with the birthright or have found something else that has nothing to do with the birthright. I want all that God has for me!


Let me ask you brothers and sisters, have you fallen for this Satanic strategy as brother Tozer suggests? Have you been frightened out of your rightful heritage? So why have many good Christians shyed away from their rightful heritage? Is it because of the confusion wrought by Satan and fale proffessors? Listen again to Brother Tozer.............

Confusion about the Spirit
I think you will agree with me when I say that many people are confused about the Spirit of God. The Holy Spirit, for instance, is not enthusiasm. Some people get enthusiasm, and they imagine it is the Holy Spirit. Some who can get all worked up over a song imagine that this is the Spirit, but this does not necessarily follow. Some of these same people go out and live just like the sinful world—but the Holy Spirit never enters a man and then lets him live just like the world that hates God. That is the reason most people don't want to be filled with the Holy Spirit—they want to live the way they want to live and to merely have the Holy Spirit as a bit of something extra.
I tell you that the Holy Spirit will not be just an addition. The Holy Spirit must be Lord, or He will not come at all.

So brothers and sisters, if we are to see revival, then obviously it must start with the Holy Spirit. If you have not sought this Baptism up to now, then you must ask yourself the question "why not?" Brother Tozer finishes chapter two of "The Counselor," with this paragraph.................

The blessed Holy Spirit waits to be honored. He will honor Christ as we honor Christ. He waits—and if we will throw open our hearts to Him, a new sun will rise on us. I know this by personal experience. If there is anything that God has done through me, it dates back to that solemn, awful, wondrous hour when the Light that never was on land or sea, "the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world" (John 1:9), flashed in on my darkness. It was not my conversion—I had been converted, soundly converted. It was subsequent to conversion. How about you?

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/3/18 17:10
notmyown
Member



Joined: 2007/10/1
Posts: 83


 Re: Have you been Baptized in the Holy Spirit, a second experience?Why you must be.

I fully agree on the importance of this in every believers life.

Could you describe the point in life when you came to be filled? What was it that finally brought you to this? I am still running around in cirles and have yet to fully receive all the God has for me, to my shame. :-?

 2008/3/18 17:54Profile









 Re:

Hi notmyown...I find there to be no shame now in your humility, surely you are at the door brother.

My own experience is this. I was saved in March of 1991. I knew of the Baptism of the Holy Spirit, I believed in it and I asked the Lord for it. Nothing happened. I railed a bit against the Lord in my spirit. It was on my mind all the time. One time at church a call was given for anyone who felt led to come and recieve the Holy Spirit then they should come forward and hands should be layed on them. Ok, I thought, this is it. I went forward and was prayed for with the laying on of hands and you know what???? Nothing!!!! I CONSTANLTY SAID TO THE lORD "WHY NOT ME lORD?" Another month passed , more praying, more knocking, and then, exhausted in my spirit I said "you know what Lord, this has become obsessive with me, I just want to enjoy our relationship." The next day I was in my bedroom and I felt a little strange. I felt the urge to speak, but in a different language. It took faith for me to open my mouth, but when I did, I found myself to be speaking a heavenly language. I was not overcome, I was not in an emotional state, I was just in my bedroom getting ready. It was as if I knew French without having ever been taught it.

At that time I was a big tough Bricklayer, had been laying bricks in construction for 10 years, I was 26. Yet previous six months I had said nothing to the guys on the construction site about being a Christian, I guess I was scared, having lived my life always wanting to fit in. I had just moved to the States from Scotland and the guys only knew me after I had came to Christ so they just assumed that I was a "nice guy," who did not cuss. I hated them thinking that because I knew that I had been worse than any of them just seven months previoulsy and the Lord was not getting the glory for my changed life.

Well, the day after speaking in tongues in my bedroom, Jimmy Swaggert was all over the news for getting caught with a prostitute. Of course the guys on the site loved this and they were all laughing and making jokes about Swaggert and those "so called holy rollers." Right out of the blue I found myself saying aloud, to all of them, probably about fiteen bricklayers and hod-carriers, "I am one of those born-again Christians." Thats all I said and went back to laying my bricks. You could have heard a pin drop. They were embarrased, I was inwardly elated. This was my "Peter moment." This is my abiding memory of the initial baptism of the Holy Spirit. I was emboldened. I was empowered. I was not ashamed of the Gospel of Christ.

Keep on knocking brother as the Lord commends us to do in Matt 7. In Luke 11 He tells us to do the same and that our Father will give us what we ask. Obviously I would say that you must go to or find a church that believes in this fullness. Have a man of God lay hands on you . God will be found, in all His fullness, by those who seek Him.

I would suggest that you purchase the book that I quoted from for a greater understanding from a man many admire, brother Tozer. This particular book is a little paperback entitled "The Counselor." The reason I quote Him so much is that I believe he is as orthodox in his theology as they come, as am I. The fullness of God and His Baptism in the Holy Spirit is genuine orhodoxy.

I did avoid giving you a "scholarly," explanation with multiple scripture references because I have seen that many times and I would imagine that most SI know all the Scriptures and have their opinions. Yet you brother have what I believe is vital, hunger and thirst.

Psalms 42:1 (KJV)
1 As the hart panteth after the water brooks, so panteth my soul after thee, O God.

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/3/18 21:20









 Re:

Quote:

notmyown wrote:
I fully agree on the importance of this in every believers life.

Could you describe the point in life when you came to be filled? What was it that finally brought you to this? I am still running around in cirles and have yet to fully receive all the God has for me, to my shame. :-?



Notmyown,

do NOT let satan make you feel shameful. Plus a few loving words from someone who ran in circles as well for over a year "trying" to receive it. (And it came upon me when I least expected Him!!)

Stop running in circles :) Stop and rest in Him. Get caught up in His word and trust God that when the time is right as well as your heart. . . you will experience the baptism of the Holy Spirit!!

Years ago I had a friend who our pastor prayed over and the Holy Spirit spoke, "Go home and sing in tongues to your baby." The next month he heard her singing in tongues while praising the Lord and asked her later when she received the baptism and she looked at him weird and said, "the Lord told me to go home and sing in tongues to my baby and I did."!!!!

The Lord is good and His mercy endures forever. He with holds NO good thing from them that love him and desire spiritual gifts.

If I could offer this tidbit for you and others as well who may be seeking... While your waiting, work on bearing the Fruit of the Spirit [Gal 5.22-23] because in my humble opinion, the gifts are no good without the fruit to serve them with. ;-)

God bless you in your walk with Him!!!

 2008/3/18 21:48
theopenlife
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 926


 Re:

If I may chime in here...

In my own experience, I distinctly recall that about a month after I began to ask Christ to save me - I wasn't sure He had, though I had confessed my dependence upon Him for justification and had begun striving to "break off my sins by righteousness" - I woke one morning to what seemed like a new life. My fear of condemnation was greatly removed. I was full of joy at Christ's kindness towards me and had trust in Him to have really and actually saved me. Throughout the day I began attempting to pray without ceasing, and for the first time began to witness boldly to many people. From there my life radically changed.

Time passed and after several months the initial energy began to wain. Compromises and repetitive sins seemed to coincide with the lessening of this apparent power working in me. I had less peace, less energy for spiritual activities.

And yet, after that season, during periods of renewed humility before the Lord, I have many times "asked and received" of the Lord's power in the Spirit. Whether for nights of open-air preaching, or extended and earnest prayers, the Lord has granted a palpable blessing from His Spirit on more than one occasion.

All of this is to say that I believe there are many "blessings" of the Holy Spirit. As often as one is humbled and desperate enough to cry out to our Father for the riches for which Christ departed, I believe we receive again the outpouring of the Spirit.

I believe in a second blessing as much as I believe in a fifth and five-hundredth.

You can read about my conversion and subsequent empowering here:

[url=http://theopenlife.blogspot.com/2005/07/when-i-was-four-years-old-stranger.html]My Conversion[/url]

I will mention, however, that I have not experienced tongues though I have asked God that, if He wills, I would. "Not all speak in tongues." My greater concern at present is the lack of love I have towards strangers.

 2008/3/18 22:03Profile









 Re:

Lisa writes......"someone who ran in circles as well for over a year "trying" to receive it. (And it came upon me when I least expected Him!!)

Mines was six months, Luke 11 saysLuke 11:5-13 (KJV)

5 And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves;
6 For a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him?
7 And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee.
8 I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.
9 And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
11 If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?
12 Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?
13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Here is Moody's story of Baptism in the Holy Spirit........(your gonna love the "circles part notmyown)

Let me remind you of Mother Cook, a nice little old lady who lived in her modest home on Chicago's South Side and who knew the blessing of the fullness of the Holy Spirit.

A young man got converted in this city, and he would have made a good salesman. He was very busy—he loved to run in circles, and he did. He went everywhere running in circles, and his name was Dwight Lyman Moody.
One day Mother Cook saw Dwight and said, "Son, I'd like to have you come over to my house sometime—I want to talk to you." So Moody went over, and she set him down on a chair and said something to this general effect:
"Now, Dwight, it's wonderful to see you saved so wonderfully and to see your zeal for the Lord, but do you know what you need? You need to be anointed with the Holy Spirit."
"Well," he said, "Mother Cook, I want whatever God has for me."
"All right," she said, "get down here." So he knelt down on the linoleum, and they prayed. Mother Cook prayed, "Oh, God, fill this young man with Thine own Spirit."
Moody died out right there, opened his heart, yielded himself as an empty vessel and took the promise by faith—but nothing happened. But a few days afterward, he was in another city, and he said, "As I was walking down the street, suddenly God fulfilled the promise He had made to me in that kitchen."
Down into him came a horn of oil, and the Holy Spirit came on him. He said he turned up an alley and raised his hand and said, "Oh, God, stay Your power, or I'll die!"
Later he said, "I went out from there preaching the same sermons with the same texts, but oh, the difference now—the Holy Spirit had come!"

Yes, the Holy Spirit had been there. The Holy Spirit was there causing him to be born again, for "Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his" (Romans 8:9).
—Counselor, The


 2008/3/18 22:12









 Re:

I certainly believe that something happens subsequent to salvation... call it Spirit Baptism, a Second Blessing, etc.

However, many have misunderstood the dramatic experiences in the book of Acts as being the normal way the Holy Spirit operates. This is not true at all. There were very specific reasons why these people were filled w/ the Holy Spirit when they were.

I encourage this conversation, but lets not lean to heavily on everyone's "experiences". If someone were to come on here and discuss an experience they had, but the experience doesnt line up with scripture, or is not found anywhere in scripture (such as being "slain in the Spirit"), then it needs to be rejected.

Thats one of the many troubling aspects of the Pentecostal, and especially the Charismatic movements... it's all about experiences. And I know of which I speak because for a long time I was a very active and involved member of it.

Krispy

 2008/3/19 7:48









 Re:

Krispy's argument is exaclty what brother Tozer was talking about when he wrote this (quote from this post).........

This was supposed to scare off all of the crows for miles around. The crows would hold a conference and say, "Look, there is a field of corn but don't go near it. I saw a dead crow over there!"
That's the kind of conference that Satan calls, and that is exactly what he has done. He has taken some fanatical, weird, wild-eyed Christians who do things that they shouldn't, and he has stationed them in the middle of God's cornfield, and warns, "Now, don't you go near that doctrine about the Holy Spirit because if you do, you will act just like these wild-eyed fanatics."

Because there has been a lot of this weird stuff, God's children are frightened, and as soon as you start to talk about it, they run for cover. They say, "Oh, no, none of that for me! I have seen dead crows out there in the middle of the field."
Well, my brother, I will not be frightened out of my rightful heritage. I will not be scared out of my birthright because some others didn't know what to do with the birthright or have found something else that has nothing to do with the birthright. I want all that God has for me!

 2008/3/19 9:21









 Re:

Quote:
Well, my brother, I will not be frightened out of my rightful heritage. I will not be scared out of my birthright because some others didn't know what to do with the birthright or have found something else that has nothing to do with the birthright. I want all that God has for me!



Well, good for you.

I think you have misunderstood what I was saying... which is becoming pretty common place among the newer members of this forum.

Krispy

 2008/3/19 9:29









 Re:

Quote:
I encourage this conversation, but lets not lean to heavily on everyone's "experiences"

How do we know that Paul really fell off his horse if it wasn't for his experience? How do we know that he really saw a bright light and out of that light spoke the Son of God if it wasn't for his experience.

We believe by faith that Paul saw these things, but then again, who is Paul that we should heed to his experience?

Lets reason this out for a moment. Everytime Paul re told that experience, do you not think that there were some in the crowd saying, "Paul we don't mind this kind of conversation, but you shouldn't lean too heavily on your experience".

Paul would most likely have returned with this rebuttal. "When you meet Jesus there will be an experience." And the LORD NEVER does the same thing twice. Each person who is converted is converted differently. The situation the circumstances are different. Each person has a different testimony a different way of telling their story.

Quote:
However, many have misunderstood the dramatic experiences in the book of Acts as being the normal way the Holy Spirit operates. This is not true at all. There were very specific reasons why these people were filled w/ the Holy Spirit when they were.

By what example shall believers TODAY being filled with the holy Spirit and speaking in tongues use?

Shall we except the teaching that as soon as one excepts the LORD into thier heart that they automatically receive the indwelling Spirit?

According to the examples laid in the book of Acts, the Samartains did not receive the holy Spirit until after Peter and John came down from Jerusalem, as it says, "for He was fallen upon none of them, but they were only baptized in the name of LORD Jesus".

If the Holy Spirit takes up residence in a persons heart as soon as they repent, the examples given here show that that is not so.

Then we have another teaching floating around, "Holy Spirit within, Holy Spirit without".

Then we have smart heads go around explaining the words IN and UPON.

There are those that are praying for revival, I think that we need to lay aside what we think revival is and just let the LORD do whatever He wants to do with us. Smith Wigglesworth was a Baptist that was hard against the baptism of the holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, til one day he received the very thing he opposed. Was this man's experience false because God chose to fill this vessel with His Spirit?

Lets not do away the working of the holy Spirit. His workings are always against what we imagine Him to be and how He works. If people think that the Holy Spirit doesn't work this way or that way, most likely He will topple that idea and show you that He can. I know that to be true in my life because He has worked against my way of thinking to show me that MY WAYS ARE NOT HIS WAYS.

If God choses to revive His body in a greater way than the book of Acts, my response would be, "bring it on, and I hope I am ready for the deluge". It would be a waste of my time trying to explain away why God doesn't fill people like that anymore in the book of Acts, because I am a recipent of that PROMISE.

When the LORD filled me with His Spirit, I did speak in tongues and still do. But there are many out there like Wigglesworth who do not believe in this experience, saying that I must have received a devil. Didn't they say the same thing to Jesus?

The carnal/natural mind cannot receive the things of the Spirit, it's not possible because it's not subject to the law of God neither indeed can be. It's that mind that rejects all things that pertain to the baptism of the holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit. But somehow that mind receives the Fruit of the Spirit. And the reason why that is, is because it's not "spooky". When the Holy Spirit is in operation the very hairs on your head stand up. When you see the miraculas all the skeptics either believe or flee or get mad.

 2008/3/19 9:31





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