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Discussion Forum : Revivals And Church History : The Vastness of God, and How He will be "known."

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 The Vastness of God, and How He will be "known."


Brother Tozer writes, in “The Attributes of God,”…

I speak often of a little book called The Revelation of the Divine Love written by a woman by the name of Julian six hundred years ago. One day as she prayed she had a little experience, and here’s what it was. She said, “I saw a very small object as large as a hazelnut.”

When I was a girl on the farm we had hazelnuts, and hazelnuts as we knew them were about the size of a large marble, no larger than that. She said she saw this little tiny object, and she asked, “What might this be?” And something in her heart said, “This is all that is made; this is all that is made.” This little tiny hazelnut-sized affair is all that is made. I want you to think about this with me: “This is all that is made.” And again…

The great French philosopher and mystic mathematician, Pascal, said this: “We are halfway between immensity and that which is infinitesimally small.” He said you will find worlds beyond worlds out in space. Our solar system moves around another solar system.

And that solar system moves around another solar system, and so on into infinite vastness. Then, he said, if you turn the other way, you will find little worlds within little worlds going down—the molecule, the atom, the electron and the proton, down into infinitesimal smallness

Then there is space. I don’t think space is a thing; I think it is just a way we have of accounting for different positions in the vast universe. We call it distance. We know they don’t measure it. If it’s the moon they say 250,000 miles or if it’s the sun they say 93 million miles.

But after that they start talking in light years. They say that there are bodies millions of light years away—say 10 million just to get a start. So if you want to know how far it is from earth to that body I’m talking about, you multiply 5 trillion, 862 billion, 484 million by 10 million. Doesn’t that stun you? It makes my head ache! Seen over against this, you and I are terribly small……………The Attributes of God

It is obvious that to say that God is vast, is a clear understatement. Its all that we can do because it reaches to the very outer limits of our understanding and intelligence just to say that He is vast. The most intelligent man that every lived could only ever say that God is vast and that would be the end of it, for as vast as God , we are equivalently small.

We might as well expect our pet cat to understand the workings of a 747 Jumbo Jet. That cat, and all its feline friends would have as much chance of constructing a 747 as all of humanity collectively would of even coming close to understanding God. All the universes that exist, everything that is, does not contain God, He contains them.

Yet here is a startling Scripture…….Ephesians 3:17-18 (KJV)
17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,
18 May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;
19 And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

We can “know,” the love of Christ which passes knowledge. How can one “know,” that which is beyond knowledge? And not only know this God, but we may be filled with all His fullness!!!!! What? How could that be? Did we not just describe a God that is so beyond our understanding that we do not even have the words adequate enough to describe our lack of knowledge?

Yet here the Scriptures are telling us that we can know this remarkable mystery, that we might be filled by the fullness of God, a fullness that all the universes that exist cannot contain for He contains them. This is a remarkable promise from God to His people. He will allow Himself to be known. How is it that one can “know ,” Him like this.

I am sure you would agree that if we knew Him like that , that it would change everything. Not a head knowledge, for we know that is an impossibility. It cannot be learned, it cannot be studied , it cannot be bought, it cannot be shared, it can only be experienced.

If we are to “know,” the fullness, to be rooted and grounded in His love so that we may know all that there is to know of His love, then we must follow Him to the cross. It was “For this reason I bow my knee to the Father, of our Lord Jesus Christ.”

You see, Jesus had a wonderful ministry, yet for Him to fulfill the Fathers plan then He had to come to Gethsemane. Oh the struggle and the agony, one will never know. Yet we too, at some point in our Christianity will come to our own Gethsemane. This is where absolute surrender will be asked of us. Are we, will we be willing to die to ourselves and commit ourselves totally to God and His will? God would have us all to come into that place.

Abraham, well down the path of his walk with God came to the mount, and was asked to sacrifice his son, the son of promise. If you think that Abraham skipped up the hill without a care saying “ah, God will raise him up anyway,” if you think that was the context of his thoughts can I put it to you that you just have not lived long enough or been called to that place of surrender. It is one thing to know something in your head, its quite another thing to live it out.

So brothers and sisters, are you ready to live for Him completely? Are you ready to only get your joy from Him? That all your contentment flows from Him? That all of your peace flows from Him. There is a revolution coming, a reformation of His church is coming and the Lord will be doing some separating and it will be the call that will separate us. He never compels any of us to do anything, He calls. Are you at a place that you are willing to lose everything for Him? Your job? Your reputation? All that gives you pleasure? Your pride? Your ego? Your place in society? Your place in the church?

I have come to a point in my own life where if I cant move forward in His presence then I just want Him to take me home.I have seen and walked in the futility of “life,”(as a Christian mind you) and there is nothing in this life that I want. I prayed the Moses prayer and told the Lord that the only way I want to move forward is if He is with me. I fast every week and I do it for selfish reasons, to come into His presence.

I think it all boils down to being in His presence or seeking His presence. I think that should be our permanent state. I know that sounds too simple, but I believe that this is the essence of our lives in Christ. I think that as a church we should always be seeking to come into His presence, it should be foremost in everything we do.

For God is not powerful, He is power. God does not have authority, He is authority. If I am in Him, in His presence, then I am moving and abiding in power and authority, it automatically comes with being in His presence.

In His presence I am changed, In His presence I have fullness of Joy, In His presence mysteries are revealed, In His presence I am healed, In His presence, offenses melt away like wax, In His presence I experience eternity, In His presence is the essence of Hope, In His presence I dwell in power, In His presence the crossed wires of my dysfunctional life are uncrossed. In His presence I forgive. In His presence I forget. In His presence I count my brother and sister in Christ higher than I count myself. And of course, in His presence there is fullness of Joy. And since I am still in the flesh, in His presence I abide under the shadow of His wings, and even that shadow is brighter than a thousand suns.

And when I necessarily come out of that presence(oh that I would dwell there forever) then I take a small portion with me, a portion of change, a portion of joy, a sense of His mystery, a portion of healing, I love more than I am offended because I care less about myself,my hope is increased, my knowledge of eternity and the eternal destination of my soul is greater, and I am less dysfunctional and more like Him. Then I pass on a small part of that to those I encounter and God is glorified . And I am encouraged and I begin again to hunger and thirst for that place and attempt to do whatever to come into that place again. I am totally addicted to the presence of God and it is my one and only motivation to even live.

Just as an aside, in the last year I have “suffered,” the loss of the last vestiges of what would bring me pleasure. The thought of a grandchild(no longer a possibility, at least in the natural)lost all desire to travel(a thing that I always loved to do) my wee dog died, and the culmination I think was to experience major rejection when I traveled to Scotland from the people who are nearest and dearest to me(perhaps the greatest sting of all)

Yet, I count these losses as something that is light and momentary, as rubbish, in comparison to the glories of heaven. Surely we get a glimpse of heaven as we dwell at the foot of the cross? The cross is a place of death to the flesh, so very painful on one hand, yet the price of entrance into His presence. If I am to know the soaring mysteries of His presence, fullness of Joy, then I must come to the place of sacrifice and death. The deeper the work of the cross in my life, the greater the revelation of Jesus. Just as those who are forgiven much love much, then those who come to the cross and dare to dwell there as long as it takes , then they will live much when they arise.May the Lord grant us the grace to continually come to the place of entrance into His presence.

As we glorify the Lord and come into His presence, then we are changed in that very presence. Being changed is a byproduct of being in His presence. Glorifying the Lord is a primary purpose in our lives, yet, so is becoming Christlike. It is all intricately interconnected.

None of it happens in a vacuum. And just as an aside, becoming Christlike is not self-fulfilling, it is self dying. In the natural, one would never seek to be Christlike. One only has to read Matt 5 and the sermon on the mount to know that being able to fulfill this is supernatural. If we become more Christlike then we turn the other cheek when we are slapped, not very self fulfilling. If we become more Christlike and we are hated by our enemies then we return love, again not fulfilling to the flesh.

It is in His presence that we learn to yield and to surrender to His will which ultimately defeats the flesh And, while there is much emotion in true and genuine worship, there is no hype. Entering into Christ’s presence, one has to first past the brazen alter, this is where we sacrifice. This ensures that all “self-fulfilling” worshippers can never enter in. Will you sacrifice to enter in? Will you come and dwell at the foot of the cross so that you may arise from that place and live the victorious Christian life?

In the last 2000 years, the Christian community has been through cycle after cycle. We go from walking in His presence in humility and grace, to walking in pride and ego, to fearing man and then to captivity. Then we are humbled, the Lord’s love for His children is confirmed in His bringing us back, forgiving us and restoring us to His presence. We , as a community, have been in Babylon now for a generation or two.

Now He is ready to bring us out, back to the Temple, where He will pour out His shekinah(the Lords presence made visible) glory on His people. His people will realize once again that all that matters is that we come into His presence. And in His presence we will discover fullness of Joy.

Every problem will melt like wax in the presence of the Lord. Its not that we will be problem free, its that our problems will pale in comparison to His presence, as Paul would say “Our light and momentary afflictions,” will seem very small as we move in the vision of the eternal. The Church is only effective in relation to its perception of God. We , as a community in general, have been worshipping a weak and anemic God.

Yet just one-second in His manifest presence blows that perception out of the water, that is why this coming move, this Reformation, is a reformation or our very walk with Him. Ego’s will have no place in this new move. There will be no powerful personalities in this new move, there will just be servants who the Lord will use to usher His people into His presence and in His presence we will only be conscious of Him and Him alone. And when we come out of that presence and go back into the world then we will glow, just as Moses did glow and the people who dwell in the darkness of this world will see a city set on a hill and they will be drawn to that, the light of Christ, the light of the world.

http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com






 2008/3/10 14:39
WarriorPoet
Member



Joined: 2008/3/9
Posts: 9


 Re: The Vastness of God, and How He will be "known."

Very beautiful to abide in His presence and to be intimate with God. You have mastery over words, Appolus, and stir my heart to pant after Him even more. (I am a warrior poet and a daughter of Scotland. You have that gift and are a warrior poet too.)

 2008/3/13 17:53Profile









 Re:

Hi Sister. I appreciate your words, but can I tell you something. Everytime I try and write about experiencing His presence, I feel like a first grade student who has barely come to a rudimentry understanding of the English language. A journey into the heart of God is a journey that reaches a world beyond words. A world where words seem beggerly. This is how I have described it before. Imagine being in one of those glass money tubes on a game show. They start up the wind and then millions of $$$ are flying everywhere and you have to grab as much as you can in a small amount of time. And when the wind stops blowing they are always standing there with a pathetic amount of money, a few hundred bucks. Well I can say with all honesty that the best that I have ever written about His presence may represent a quarter, and I am being generous to myself. Any writing that I do comes in the after glow of His presence, In that agonizing fading, for in His presence one is only concious of Him, a totality of everything. This poem describes the fading, the fading , radiant afterglow, that lasts for hours, sometimes days................

My reality is the presence of Jesus

Oh reality, why do you flee from me?
Forced into a world that is, yet is not to me
A world of pain, a world of joy in measure
Oh land that was and is and is to come

“Run, I said “Run,” but they do not run
Why wont you hide in the shadows of His wings?
But not just His wings, how I long to see His face
Not just the shadow, which is brighter than a thousand suns
That light which threatens to consume
All things are possible, and then darkness
Only a lingering, longing, oh reality
The knowledge of your inevitable leaving is hard to live with
One day I shall burst through this soil
I shall see the heavens where the rain comes from
I shall see the throne from where my infallible light does shine.
..
http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/3/13 22:15
Magdalynn
Member



Joined: 2008/4/10
Posts: 1


 Re: The Vastness of God, and How He will be "known."

This is so beautiful and I stand with you, brother. I felt a unity in heart with your words. His presence is so breathtaking and we cannot even begin to understand His majesty.

"Oh, that we might KNOW the Lord. Let us press on to know Him. Let us press hard into Him. Then, as surely as the coming of the dawn, He will respond."

I believe the God of Israel is searching for a people who will truly live a self-less faith. I believe He is gathering together FOR HIMSELF a Holy Nation. A people, His own, to let the light of His face shine upon - to display His glory.
"Oaks of righteousness for the display of His splendor."

He is lovely. He IS power and He IS authority.

I am striving to become one on whom God's power rests. Not because I am worthy, but because He sees the desires of my heart and the integrity of my actions - that He is my Desire, Hope, Love, and Life. I desire to become one whom God would be PLEASE do use to show His glory, and might. To display His love to a broken world.
I could never be worthy of such a call...
But I hope and pray and seek to become what I, by myself, could never attain. Only through His grace, His righteousness, and His power can I be made holy.

Lord, gather together for yourself a people who are wholly devoted to you in a spirit of RIGHTEOUSNESS.

"Oh, that we might KNOW the Lord..."

Thank you for your words. They have encouraged my spirit and strengthened me in the battle.

 2008/4/10 14:05Profile









 Re:

Hi Magdalynn, you write "I believe the God of Israel is searching for a people who will truly live a self-less faith. I believe He is gathering together FOR HIMSELF a Holy Nation. A people, His own, to let the light of His face shine upon - to display His glory."

Yes He is sister. There is a new move of God coming. He is looking for warriors, people who will abandon themselves to the battle, who will yield and surrender to Him. People that have been priveledged to have momentarily dwelt in the fullness of eternity, and whose hearts long for nothing more than Him..............Frank
http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/4/10 23:48









 Re:

Dear Magdalynne ..it is good to hear from a sister in Christ who knows and loves the presence of God. I feel deeply for all who only know God by the intellect, for if that is the case, then they know and believe in a collection of facts. A collection of facts and truths, an understanding of theology and doctrine, a mental assent to an abstract truth will not sustain anyone. To walk in the footsteps of the Lord one must "meet,' Him. One must "know," Him and He cannot be known by the intellect, just as a symphony cannot be heard by the eyes, nor can the ears be lost in the beauty of a sunset. The Lord has given us a method, an instrument by which we can know Him, and it is only by this method that He can be known..........Frank
http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com

 2008/4/11 17:41





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