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Discussion Forum : General Topics : THE "ROMANCING JESUS" MOVEMENT

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psalm1
Member



Joined: 2007/1/30
Posts: 1230


 Re:

i think it is dangerous to judge the worship of other believers.

Note 2sam 6;
16And as the ark of the LORD came into the city of David, Michal Saul's daughter looked through a window, and saw king David leaping and dancing before the LORD; and she despised him in her heart.

17And they brought in the ark of the LORD, and set it in his place, in the midst of the tabernacle that David had pitched for it: and David offered burnt offerings and peace offerings before the LORD.

18And as soon as David had made an end of offering burnt offerings and peace offerings, he blessed the people in the name of the LORD of hosts.

19And he dealt among all the people, even among the whole multitude of Israel, as well to the women as men, to every one a cake of bread, and a good piece of flesh, and a flagon of wine. So all the people departed every one to his house.

20Then David returned to bless his household. And Michal the daughter of Saul came out to meet David, and said, How glorious was the king of Israel to day, who uncovered himself to day in the eyes of the handmaids of his servants, as one of the vain fellows shamelessly uncovereth himself!

21And David said unto Michal, It was before the LORD, which chose me before thy father, and before all his house, to appoint me ruler over the people of the LORD, over Israel: therefore will I play before the LORD.

22And I will yet be more vile than thus, and will be base in mine own sight: and of the maidservants which thou hast spoken of, of them shall I be had in honour.

23Therefore Michal the daughter of Saul had no child unto the day of her death.


this is another scripture of interest;

7There came unto him a woman having an alabaster box of very precious ointment, and poured it on his head, as he sat at meat.

8But when his disciples saw it, they had indignation


Note that the ones judging improperly in both instances were of the household of faith.



David

 2008/3/11 0:01Profile









 Re: THE "ROMANCING JESUS" MOVEMENT

Quote:
Richard Wurmbrand says this: "The language of love and the language of seduction are the same. The one who wishes a girl for a wife and the one who wishes her for only a night both say the words, “I love you.” Jesus has told us to discern between the language of seduction and the language of love, and to know the wolves clad in sheepskin from the real sheep."

Thank you for this. I read it at the very time when I'd been tempted to compromise Truth in a certain area, (no connection with the topic of this thread, but the Lord still used it!) because a person apologised re harsh words that had passed between us re a matter of doctrine.

It was such a relief to feel reconciled and be able to "make peace" with them, that I completely missed the danger at first.

I'm sure the person was sincere, but the spirit of seduction was in it.

The Lord warned me through a friend and also through a reminder of two kings in the Bible, Jehoshaphat and Hezekiah. They were truly men of God, but prone to comprmise and make leagues with their enemies and His enemies.

A warning indeed!

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/3/11 7:41









 Re:

Quote:

dorcas wrote:

John 10:12
But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

I think the man who wants the girl for his wife, will protect her, and preserve her, that he might present to himself a chaste bride.

He is not indecently hasty, but thoroughly prepares the way, in the light, neither working in darkness nor secrecy.

Amen!

Quote:
The problem with false doctrine being introduced to large groups, is that the few with the discernment are very outnumbered, and it is hard for them to find the others who also have the same insight. We could say that everyone should know, because they are reading their Bibles, but in practice, false doctrine flourishes because people are [i]not[/i] finding their doctrine from the Book.

There is also the problem that once false teaching, through "seducing spirits and doctrines of demons" gets a hold, those under its spell are often totally unable to recognise what the Bible is really saying.

No doubt we all have "blind spots", but this is something more dangerous than merely missing, or misunderstanding, certain aspects of Truth.

Re: seduction into idolatry, and the sensuousness that goes with it, those who worshipped the Golden Calf probably thought they were worshipping it as a representative of the true God.

Thus Roman Catholics are taught to pray to images, sincerely believing that they are worshipping the Lord [i]through[/i] the image.

There is no intention of idolatry, because of the spirit of seduction that deceives sincere worshippers.

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/3/11 8:00









 Re:

Quote:

psalm1 wrote:
I'm wondering if I am in the group that is being branded false once again.

Jesus is the groom coming for his bride.

A loveless passionless bride?
are you serious?


David

Hi David

I think you have misunderstood the error that is being warned of here.

Passion, yes, [i]sexual[/i] sensuousness, no.

It is the spilling over, of true love between us and the Lord into the frankly sexual that is the danger highlighted.

Maybe we women understand better the strength of that temptation. I have certainly been on the edge of this. To fall in love with a perfect man, and he with her; to open our heart to him, to let him possess us, body and soul, is almost every girl and woman's dream. It is only too easy to transfer this natural human love-longing onto the Lord.

As a comparatively young Christian, someone gave me a tape that I thought was wonderful. It spoke of a distinct, intense experience that the woman speaking called "consummation" of the marriage between her and Jesus. She claimed to have had that experience on a certain date, and I envied her greatly. I longed for that experience, and half-unconsciously tried to make it happen, tried to give myself over to the "feelings" that I imagined would lead to this experience.

Thankfully I didn't succeed!

It was a spiritual experience I sought, but it could so easily have turned into something else.

That temptation to let true and right passion for the Lord spill over into something unclean is only too real!

But I'm sure no-one is condemning passion such as you quoted from Scripture.

For example, it says that the woman crouched at Jesus' feet, weeping, and anointed His feet with perfume. It doesn't say that she flung herself into His arms and kissed Him on the mouth!

in Him

Jeannette

 2008/3/11 8:33









 Re: THE "ROMANCING JESUS" MOVEMENT


David said

Quote:
Note that the ones judging improperly in both instances were of the household of faith.

If I may beg to differ, brother, I would draw to your attention a couple of verses which militate against your thought. Our familiarity with the pentecostal persepctive clouds our analysis, (I think) of the kind of separation God Himself was still making (and, I believe, still makes), between people on the basis of their compliance with having Him as their only object of worship.

If there is a 'problem' with the kind of music which accompanies exhortations to behave in a fleshly way in worship, as if Jesus is a fleshly 'lover', it is that huge flocks of sheep are being led astray, being fed a kind of entertainment in the name of God, and encouraged to consider Jesus as a carnal companion, instead of, as Paul said 'henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we [i]him[/i] no more'. This is a vital distinction to make.


Having said that, I heard a sister once say she had been struggling to pray at church one day, and felt to say 'O Lord, I feel I pray in the flesh', to acknowledge where she was [i]really[/i] at. The preacher (GW North) apparently encouraged her to continue, saying 'go on... soon you'll be praying in the Spirit'. This thought has remained with me and been a powerful encouragement not to judge myself [u]un[/u]able to get through to God, but to keep pressing in, until I do. But, when people are being [i]told[/i] they're hitting the mark and they're [i]not[/i], that is reprehensible, especially if it comes from pastors and worship leaders.

So..... first, regarding Michal. Remember whose daughter she is, and how her father idolised public opinion to the extent that he lost both his spiritual ministry under the anointing of God and his kingdom, through disobedience and lack of reverence for God's word. Later, he took his daughter in her husband's absence, and gave her to another man, and David had to go begging for his wife to be allowed to come back to him. I'm not disputing she had a rough time in those circumstances, but, her heart wasn't after God either. Finally, the episode with the witch of Endor tells us Saul still looked for the approval of man, rather than God (my 2c), although David shows us how things are supposed to be done in the Spirit, after his death.

[color=6633FF]1 Samuel 19:13
And [u]Michal took an image[/u], and laid [i]it[/i] in the bed, and put a pillow of goats' [i]hair[/i] for his bolster, and covered [i]it[/i] with a cloth. [/color]

(You may remember that Rachel stole an image from her father's house, and then lied about where it was when her father asked her to her face. To me, the example of Jacob working under a relative who worshipped idols, and being in love with a woman who worshipped idols, and yet proving himself a seeker of God despite the opposing spiritual atmosphere, is something we need to appreciate, seeing [u]we[/u] have the Holy Ghost.)


Of the disciples before Pentecost, for all their repentance and exercise of the gift of power to heal and cast out demons, they had no real idea of what was going on. Even though they recognised Jesus as the Messiah, they mostly didn't have a spirit of revelation. Perhaps the twins came closer, but their mother had ambitions for them which they seem not to have resisted (perhaps even, they asked her to ask Him). It was not till after the resurrection they began to understand things He had not been able to explain before His death. They had to lose all hope in their own ability, before they were open to see things His way. If anyone, again it is John (who knew people in the High Priest's household) who picked up on this conversation for us.

[color=6633FF]Luke 9
54 And when his disciples James and John saw [i]this[/i], they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?
55 But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, [u]Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of[/u].


John 4 [i](Jesus to the Samaritan woman)[/i]
22 Ye worship ye know not what:
we know what we worship:
for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when [u]the
true worshippers shall worship [b]the Father[/b] in spirit and in truth[/u]:
for [b]the Father[/b] seeketh such to worship him. [/color]


Now, I know Jesus is one with the Father, but for the Jews, God as Father was a formal way to address the one they worshipped. They didn't really think of [i]Him[/i] as their [u]Father[/u]. They thought of themselves as 'Abraham's children', (as were the Samaritans). Jesus seems to be saying here, the time will come when it will be [i][b]true[/i][/b] that God is your Father, and you will [i]worship [b]Him[/i][/b].



So, where does 'romancing Jesus' come into a scriptural understanding of to whom we are to direct our [u]true[/u] worship?

 2008/3/11 8:47
PaulWest
Member



Joined: 2006/6/28
Posts: 3405
Dallas, Texas

 Re:

Quote:
It doesn't say that she flung herself into His arms and kissed Him on the mouth!


Quote:
It spoke of a distinct, intense experience that the woman speaking called "consummation" of the marriage between her and Jesus. She claimed to have had that experience on a certain date


Quote:
To fall in love with a perfect man, and he with her; to open our heart to him, to let him possess us, body and soul, is almost every girl and woman's dream.


Quote:
Passion, yes, sexual sensuousness, no.


Quote:
It is only too easy to transfer this natural human love-longing onto the Lord.



"Easy" is not the word I was thinking of. This very thought is wicked and perverse and demonic. Brethen, I don't like where this thread is heading; the title alone demonstrated where it would eventually go.

Again, please be quick to pray and slow to post. We see way too much of this on SermonIndex. Let not this carnal spirit of "eros" even be mentioned in the same thread with Christ, and do learn from the myriad of similar threads already locked.


_________________
Paul Frederick West

 2008/3/11 8:50Profile









 Re:


Hi Jeannette,

You've expressed very well the issues at stake here. This struck me

Quote:
Re: seduction into idolatry, and the sensuousness that goes with it, those who worshipped the Golden Calf probably thought they were worshipping it as a representative of the true God.

as we have had a thread already in the News and Current events forum, about people being asked to take their clothes off in worship, and told lust is normal and they are to give in to it. :-o :-? :-(

[color=6633FF]Exodus 32:25
... Moses saw that the people [i]were[/i] naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto [i]their[/i] shame among their enemies:)[/color]

 2008/3/11 8:56
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: Sick

Quote:
my ranting and ravings are ended...will this thread go down in smoke and ashes?



Brother, appreciate your forthcoming here as to other mentions and recognizing them, that this has been gone through prior.

To the rest, brother Paul is correct, this whole matter is decidedly sick, the whole head is sick, so far is the straying to give this even the light of day, as to even be a matter of discussion. Not here per se but at it's inception. Someone should have had the spiritual courage to have silenced it .. to have slayed the sick head from it's torso back when it started.

[i]And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.[/i]
Eph 5:11-12

It's the principle of it, it's the spreading of contagion. To go on 'discussing' or attempting to right it is to give it it's own powers of considerations even while attempting to dismiss them. A sword to it all and a death knell to this thread.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/3/11 9:49Profile





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