I am not really sure as to waht David is alluding to. I think he may be raising points in this thread that is another subject, or perhaps seems a little disgruntled that I or others have not mentioned the "revivals," that he talks of. David says "Your discernment and trusting teachers to tell you what is of God and whats not will make you miss other revivals."Now I am not sure if David is talking to me, but just in case it is me he is referring to let me eply and let me apologize up front if it is not me.First of all, and this is going to sound arrogant to some, but I know the presence of God. I have moved in it, I have dwelt in it and I have been changed by it. It is the essence of my Christianity. So the notion that someone would "tell me," what is and what is not seems quite bizarre. Nobody can teach you or tell you what that "small still voice is." You either hear it or you do not. As for the "revivals," that David speaks of, oh dear, that is a can of worms that has probably already been thrashed out to death in these forums. All I can do is speak from my own experience. All I can also say is that the state of the Church is dire. Perhaps David would disagree with that and then we would have to agree or disagree. It is also my opinion that the state of the Church has nose-dived since the early 1990s. Is there a correlation between what David says and the current state of the Church? Of course that is a judgment call to which I am certain that we would disagree. What I do know about the great awakening, and the seconf great awakening and the Welsh revival and the Lewis revival is thatit changed a generation and generations of Christians for the better. And, as a by-product, changed society for the better also. If David believes that these "revivals," did that, or even if that is the mark of a true revival then fair enough, that is his opinion and we would have to agree to disagree. Here is a post from just a few days ago from a sister, entitled "Manifest presence." This is something that my spirit witnesses with..........."There was a time when you could go into a church and feel the presence of God.you would tiptoe in and cry at the altar and tiptoe out.talk about church all day and at bedtime,talk to your neighbors about The Lord.Does anybody know what im talking about?Does your chruch have God's presence there?When we witness or tell neighbors about our chruch, do we tell them about the programs we can offer them, softball team, a free cup of espresso from our espresso bar, or do we say, just come and I guarinttee you, your going to meet God, come to him and he will reveal himself to you if you will humble yourself to him,, I see it happen every week, so please come.I got saved in my 20's and was a professing sinner, then I really got saved about 6 years ago, now im in my mid 40's.I hear about the old days, from all the grey headed ladies in church,, most of them will attend the prayer meetings, even most leadership dont show up for that.I am hungry for God's manifest presence, and I need to know what im supposed to do about it.I pray, I confess, I do not live in any known sin, yet I stumble at times and the holy spirit convicts me and I immedietly repent.I go to the prayer meetings at church, I read my bible, I talk about christ at work and try to get them to Go to my or any church, so they can get their free coffee.. haha.What are we doing wrong,, or me.Is my chruch under judgment, or our nation?Is there any chruches out there experiencing God.Where the Spirit is moving and people are confessing and changing their lives.living for Christ and Dying to self and carrying their cross.These are some of my thoughts and I hope I or we can get some answers.Jesus please show yourself."http://scottishwarriors.wordpress.com
Hi Frank and David,I think you two agree with each other, but tell me if I'm wrong. I read this
the notion that someone would "tell me," what is and what is not seems quite bizarre. Nobody can teach you or tell you what that "small still voice is." You either hear it or you do not.
This is one mark of revival .....That the Holy Spirit offends.I was greatly offended by the "laughing revival".........Until i attended a meeting.Wow was I wrong!!! The power of God was there!!
trusting teachers to tell you what is of God and whats not will make you miss other revivals.
As for ... "revivals," ... oh dear, that is a can of worms that has probably already been thrashed out to death in these forums.
I can see the cloud but I also see alot of other things. The church issues that arise everyday never cease to amaze me as they did Paul. Maybe we will always have these petty issues I don't know. I know in Paul's day it happened throughout the churches. We had a bible study at our church and it was exactly the same kind of incident I ran into that very same week. It was about favoratism and how christians can sometimes be like cameleons just like Peter with the Jews. Or just like Esau they would sell their birthright just for a bowl of pottage. So many things that are outside of the character of Christ by christians who may even be considered zealous christians. Why must we constantly have to revisit these very same issues? What we need sometimes I think is more tribulation and persecution. We as christians should be taking advantage of the liberty we have right now in America but instead it is being abused and misused.
Psalm 18 wrote "What we need sometimes I think is more tribulation and persecution." I Could not agree more.
You know what also amazes me is how he used that word "cameleon" to discribe this type of christian and that was the very same word that came to my mind. I often wonder what christians in foriegn countries would think of this in light of the suffering and persecution they face from day to day? That's why I love reading articles such as "Extreme Devotion" because it helps me to stay focused on what is really important. It just goes to show how the same issues I have had lately on my mind are the same on the minds of other christians, so that's a good thing. It also has me thinking about the foolish virgins who had no oil in thier lamps.
Actually revival itself brings persecution.It is religious spirits that persecute the anointingIn the Brownsville revival a church in Pensacola actually trained their people to attack us.Thousands of people saved and set free. You would think they would help us?They were offended by the anointingDavid
appolus wrote: Psalm 18 wrote "What we need sometimes I think is more tribulation and persecution." I Could not agree more.
Persecution is automatic and promised.If we are not getting our share of it then all we have to do is turn up the heat.I am posting on a news article here in Corpus Christi. They fried a woman here for her faith. Just read the venom here against Christians. Google Hannah Overton Her pastor,Rod,is under tremendous attack. ........but I dont think that church is in revival. Persecution can play a role in revival.In fact if obama or Clinton get in it could spark a revival.David
psalm1 wrote:Actually revival itself brings persecution.It is religious spirits that persecute the anointingIn the Brownsville revival a church in Pensacola actually trained their people to attack us.Thousands of people saved and set free. You would think they would help us?They were offended by the anointingDavid
Death to self was more of what I was thinking when I talked about trials and persecutions. There has indeed always been a tension between religious folk and genuine Christians. Issac and Esau is probably the root of it. Lets not be fooled though, some of the most religious people I have seen is people who claim to be "spirit filled." Rather than love and joy and forgiveness, there is fear and paranoi and attacking and a seeing of demons everywhere. I think that these people may do more damage than your "regular old religious person." And of course, any questioning at all is seen as a mark of the devil coming to get them. You just do not see that kind of behaviour in those who are genuinely filled, and who come into the presence of God. Look at brother Stephen, filled with the Holy Spirit, words cutting like a dagger into the hearts of the hearers. "Forgive them." And of course our Saviour Jesus,none more persecuted "Father forigive them for they know not what they do." Love is always the mark of the one who has walked with Him, even for, and especially for those who persecuted them. For as we know, it is easy to love those who love us. On the other hand, distrust, dislike, fear and paranoi is the mark of another kind os spirit. And this other spirit always urges a justifying of itself, yet the Lord was dumb before his accusers, and He did not come down from the cross when the religious folk urged Him to prove Himself. So, if anyone wants a free discernment lesson :) Look for the love, look for the grace, look for the fruit, that is how you will know them............Frank