SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Image Map
Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : due to scripture i now feel baptism is needed

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 | 3 Next Page )
PosterThread
luckyd
Member



Joined: 2005/6/1
Posts: 71
tx

 due to scripture i now feel baptism is needed


please dont take this as me trying to convert people to a different doctrine. im so confused and for a whole week have been so stressed and lost. its hard to sleep when im not sure anymore if i will go to hell or not. but no christian can even give me much scripture on baptism not being needed for salvation and please im begging for help now. something tells me we dont need baptism for salvation but scripture seems to prove otherwise very much so.
well i have organized my thoughts and i hope that someone can give a good arguement that baptism is not needed for salvation, but i will put down what these people believe and why they believe the scriptures. but please dont post anything if you want to give an opinion that is not fully supported by scripture. so here i go...

i argued about the theif on the cross with these people to show how he did not get baptized but they gave me a good answer based on scripture. it fits right in because they said that while jesus lived on earth, theres no way they were to follow the new testament. baptism according to passages such as romans, says you die, are buried and are resurected with christ. well the theif couldnt die resurect nor be buried with christ. everyone who got saved such as the theif on the cross and others, it was because jesus had the authorit to forgive sins and no way could baptism mean what it means in the new testments...well atleast after the gospels.
now you might say thats not true because people were always baptizing, however, it was no required to save, and i will show scripture that says it is required to save from the bible. circumsicion however was thought to save people though but it was symbolic. no where does paul say its symbolic in his scripture he only says circumcision was.

now what about when jesus says those that believe and are baptized will be saved. sure he says but if you dont believe your condemned and we wonder well ok but it doesnt include baptism. well neither parts include repent. i guess we dont even have to repent. no because if we believe jesus then we know that he required repentance which is part of our belief in him, which also means that he commanded to be baptized also. so if you argue that he says nothing about baptism for condemnation then you have to realize he says nothing about repentance and i guess we dont need to repent cus we will be saved just by believing.

now what about when jesus says unless you are born of water and spirit. why cant water mean water? i heard that water means spirit or holy spirit i forgot which one but that makes no sense...is jesus saying unless you are born of spirit and spirit? did he mess up in his speech? that makes no sense. however baptism throughout the bible is used with words such as a new birth and other words to show rebirth, hench born again of water.

now heres one that gets me. what about in 1peter when it says that the water from noahs ark symbolizes baptism...its strange how water is tied with baptism in that passage but ok lets still go ahead and say it is a spirit baptism not anything to do with water baptism. well why does he then go on to say it saves you, not the removal of dirt from the body. ok now if hes talking about the spirit, then of course we know the spirit doesnt take dirt off your body. in fact he had no reason to say this because we wouldnt even of thought about that. lets take for example, if he said, " and this bannana saves you, not the removal of dirt from the body...ok now why would we even need to hear that a bannana doesnt remove dirt from your body, this wouldnt even cross our minds. so lets see what evidence we have pointing to water baptism. for some reason paul talks about water from noah, and then he includes that this baptism doesnt remove dirt from your body. now if paul was talking about water baptism then we could see how people might say, "hey i guess we are saved because we also need to be cleansed from your filth on our bodies." but paul lets them know that its a cleansing that means more than cleaning your body on the outside.

now some people might say well what about when cornelious in acts got the holy spirit and in the beginning of acts when the holy spirit came down on the people. but think about this. these were the only occasions that there was no baptism. lets look at cornelious. he was already looked at by god because he had been god fearing and doing great works. but he just had never heard of jesus yet because jesus never left jerusalem....if im wrong there then sorry, but i do know for sure that these people hadnt heard of jesus or what had happened, this is why the apostles would travel the world to preach what had happened. anyways, since he didnt know about jesus, he would never know about baptism and therfor not be baptized the way jesus commanded. and peter couldnt understand what his dream meant yet. now remember jews were thought to be so unclean in gods eyes to even associate with gentiles and such people. this means that peter would still have the belief from being a jew that gentiles were still not favored in gods eyes and this also means he would never baptize a gentile. but think about it. this was the only other time besides acts chapter 2 that the holy spirit came upon him before baptism. but at the same time it didnt say he recieved the spirit, it says it came upon..but this was also the ONLY time one did not get baptized. so the only time one did not get baptized was also the time when peter now knew it was ok to baptize gentiles.

for my last argument, some point out scriptures in acts such as with the guard saying sirs what must i do to be saved. well they say believe in the lord jesus. now sure they didnt include baptism, but they also did not include repenance. again just as jesus says those that dont believe are condemn and doesnt include baptism, they also say believe in the lord jesus but do not say repent. meaning if they did not tell the man to repent nor be baptized yet baptises him later could only mean that to believe in jesus means to also believe what he commanded which includes repentance and baptism. this could also show how he must of explained baptism and repentance to them as for why they so quickly got baptized after going to the river. this could also explain why they even went to a river. i know they went for wounds, but im just saying i can see some connections there, because like i said they said nothing about repentance. so please prove to me with scripture against scripture why we dont need baptism. im very torn between the two but more on we need baptism.


_________________
jesse

 2008/2/18 17:09Profile
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re: due to scripture i now feel baptism is needed

Brother,

If it is on your heart to get baptized and the Lord is leading you to this, GET BAPTIZED!

The problem never lies with baptism, which is scriptual, it is what people do AFTER being baptized that many worry about.

Some may and will disagree, but being baptized in no way means you will go to heaven. If it was, most everyone would get baptized and only baptized. Make sure that before you get baptized that you are willing to loose everything, everyone and even your own life for Jesus. If you are not prepared to loose your life for the sake of Christ...

[u][b]Mark 8:35-37 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake and the gospel’s will save it. For what will it profit a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?"


[u][b]Galatians 5:1-3 (NKJV)[/b][/u]

"Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law."


Find freedom in Christ brother.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/18 18:05Profile
tjservant
Member



Joined: 2006/8/25
Posts: 1658
Indiana USA

 Re: due to scripture i now feel baptism is needed

Repent and believe.

That’s it.

By faith alone you are saved.

Anything else adds the work of man.

Get baptized to show others your heart and openly declare your love for God.

This should be a desire.

If you get baptized in order to save yourself…then…you add your works…and it shows you do not have faith in Christ alone...that He did not do enough...and you need to help finish or complete your salvation.

Repent and believe in Christ and his work on the cross.

Ephesians 2:8-9
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.


_________________
TJ

 2008/2/18 18:19Profile
crsschk
Member



Joined: 2003/6/11
Posts: 9192
Santa Clara, CA

 Re: due to scripture i now feel baptism is needed

Luckyd,

[i]Then cometh Jesus from Galilee to Jordan unto John, to be baptized of him.

But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.[/i]

Mat 3:13 -15

Dear Brother, did you absorb any of the other mentions given you in the other posting you put up? You do not need an argument nor an explanation nor to tie yourself into knotts over this. The Lord gave you an example Himself even though he had no necessity of a Baptism that we have.

Go and do likewise.


_________________
Mike Balog

 2008/2/18 19:01Profile









 Re:

The thief went to paradise because of Faith. He believed that Jesus was the Christ by calling Him "LORD".

Quote:
Luke 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.


Salvation begins when you recognize that Jesus Christ is LORD by faith.

Paul on the road to Damascus recognized the LORD when he was struck down by light.
Quote:
Acts 9:5 And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: ....



Salvation is NOT by Water Baptism, settle that in your heart.
Quote:
Ephesians 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:



LuckyD, the first thing you need to do is not to fret. The LORD sees your desire to wanting to the know the truth and He will guide you to the right people. You just need to ask Him and trust that He will lead you. He is not slack concerning His promises, you'll see how quickly He responds to these things. Salvation is a serious thing and He wants you to trust Him so that He may establish you and strengthen you.

One thing is certain is you need to depart from those who speak against whats clearly written in the word.

Quote:
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

Lets look at this verse for a moment. LuckyD, our foundation is the Apostles and Prophets and Jesus Christ is our chief corner stone. I want you to read what Jesus had commanded, and how the Apostles responded to that command by reading the book of Acts. In every instance, everyone was baptized in water, there have been no exceptions.

You need to make a decision, are you going to trouble your soul by listening to those that are against the "foundation" or are you going to listen to what the "founders" did?

Micca mentioned about counting the cost, and he's right. Counting the cost involves forsaking those that are spreading lies, even if it means forsaking friends and family. I had to, it was hard to do, but it had to be done.

Here is a simple prayer, "LORD Jesus, I want to know you and I don't want to go to hell. I want to do the things that you would have me do. Please lead me to be baptized in Jesus name. In Jesus name, Amen.

I have prayed for you. Now in the meantime read the Actions of the Apostles, and get away from those that are corrupting your mind.
Quote:
1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners [judgements].

 2008/2/18 19:31









 Re:

Without water baptism it is impossible to please God. :-?

 2008/2/18 20:21
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3699
Ca.

 Re:

Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

Rom 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

This is the only baptism that is salvations completeness.

Let us fulfill all righteousness? In this is water baptism given for the sake of the completeness of baptism that has occurred in us by Christ and the Holy Spirit being bapized into us, not as a work but as a fulfillment of the righteousness we have received in Christ.

1 Corinthians 1:29-31 That no flesh should glory in his presence. But of Him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption: That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

Then by the righteousness of Christ in us we want to be baptized in water, not for the cleansing of the flesh but in Love for the Savior, which fulfills all righteousness in Him. We have a new nature and that nature now wants to please Him. In pleasing Him I want to share His righteousness with the world, and be baptized in water that all might see my obedience and love is now for Him.

Baptism is of much importance, but not unto salvation, only unto obedience and Love in wanting to be associated with Him in fulfilling righteousness by following Him and His example.

Only the Christ in you is pleasing to God. He is our righteousness before God, not our water baptism.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2008/2/19 2:44Profile









 Re:

You've asked for a lot of advice... have you ignored it?

Baptism is a work. You are saved by grace thru faith. Faith is NOT a work (contrary to what Calvinists believe).

Scripture is very clear about this.

You're thinking too hard.

Krispy

 2008/2/19 8:19









 Re:

Quote:
Without water baptism it is impossible to please God.



Where is that in scripture??

No, scripture tells us what need in order to please God...

Hebrews 11:6 [i]But [b]without faith it is impossible to please him[/b]: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.[/i]

Lets get it right. It doesnt say anything about baptism.

Krispy

 2008/2/19 8:23
LoveHim
Member



Joined: 2007/6/14
Posts: 562
Indiana, US

 Re:

Quote:
Without water baptism it is impossible to please God.


where is that in scripture??

i was gonna ask the same question. where does that come from?? chapter and verse please..

 2008/2/19 8:43Profile





©2002-2020 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy