Now these people in Matt 7:21-22 that called him Lord, did they have the Holy Spirit?
_________________Paul Frederick West
Ok Brother Paul I will PM you, but I must say one thing:You quoted that " ..and that no man can that Jesus is the Lord but by the Holy Ghost..."I quoted and responded to that by using Matt 7:21 about the "...many will Lord Lord," and " not everyone who saith unto me Lord Lord..."How is this desparation? I am making a clear point that everyone who calls Jesus Lord will not inherit eternal life, but particularly in response to you-that there are people who call Jesus Lord who do NOT have the witness of the Spirit.However, I was never hinting that Paul or the thief fit into that verse-I was showing that there are people who call Jesus Lord, who in fact are not Spirit filled, and that these same inviduals who called Jesus Lord, Jesus says he "NEVER" knew themYou may answer or respond in a PM.
Blazed, 1 Corinthians 12:3 cannot be discounted in the case of Paul and the thief. It is poor hermeneutics to use Matthew 7:22 to try to whitewash the genuine testimony of these two men in the attempt to make a one-size-fits-all confession of "Lord" prior to water baptism still equate to not being saved. The "Lord" confessions of Paul and the thief are valid testimonies we know to be true by the witness of the Holy Spirit, and we know Paul was chosen by God as a vessel before the physical arrival of Ananias to lay hands on him. You are trying to hammer the square peg of Matthew 7:22 into the round hole of 1 Corinthians 12:3 and by doing this you're making a spectacle of desperation in a public forum. This is why I would chose to take it behind the scenes.I say, let others judge for themselves in light of Paul and the Thief, according to their own testimonies of "[i]Lord[/i]" before and after the resurrection and independant of water baptism as pertaining to receiving the Holy Ghost confession according to 1 Cor. 12:3.If Paul could be saved with the witness of the Spirit and have a true confession of "Lord" prior to water baptism, then you must reject the entire "salvation by water baptism" doctrine, regardless if 100,000,000 false believers say "Lord, Lord" - water-baptized or not.