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 Re:

Sharon, actually I appreciate the fact that it was brought to light in this thread that you apparently question the diety of Christ. (at least thats what I have gotten out of this)

Thats important for me to know when discussing [b]anything[/b] with you because if we dont have Christ's diety in common... we have nothing in common... and therefore nothing to discuss.

At the beginning of this thread I did not know that piece of important information.

Krispy

 2008/2/11 15:40









 Re: Spurgeon, A.W.Pink on Sabbath

Quote:

wildbranch wrote:

One or two people stood up for the remembering of the 4th commandment, while others opposed it, even hinting that one might be 'fallen from grace' to engage in Sabbath keeping.

Hi Sharon

Who exactly do you think is against the keeping of the 4th commandment? I'm all [i]for[/i] it personally!

To say that someone who advocates keeping the [i]essential meaning[/i] of the 4th commandment is against that commandment is as ridiculous as saying that [i]Jesus[/i] opposed the Laws against murder or adultery, when He said that anyone who thinks or desires to commit the sin has already done it in his heart!

Keeping the true Sabbath is - as I said - far, far more (NOT LESS!) than keeping one day in seven.

Quote:
I would just like to point out that Charles Spurgeon and A.W. Pink had a good understanding on the 4th commandment, and I do not believe that they were blind, or had any dishonest agenda:

[b]FROM CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM (WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN):

49 Q Which is the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment?

A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12).

51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified?

A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12).[/b]

Yes, that's correct, as far as it goes - except that the Old Testament Sabbaths (as someone pointed out in the other thread) were more than one day in seven. And of course, what Spurgeon would have called the Sabbath was Sunday, not Saturday, so not strictly the Sabbath at all.

Quoting from a [i]children's[/i] catechism seems a little dishonest though. One wouldn't attempt to explain the subject any further to a child (ie in the light of the New Covenant).

For one thing, children need clear rules and boundaries, so any futher expolanation would only confuse. And if the child didn't yet know the Lord he wouldn't be [i]able[/i] to keep the Sabbath as it should be kept anyway - any more than an unsaved adult!

Maybe someone, who knows more of Spurgeon's writings than I do, can find out where he writes of the meaning behind the Sabbath law? I can't imagine such a great preacher could be ignorant of it.

As Paul said:
Galatians 3:23f
[color=990000]23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.[/color]

Also in Jeremiah 31 it speaks of the [i]law written on the heart[/i], rather than on tablets of stone.

Quote:
"...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace).

"It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)[/b]

In what way are these quotes connected with the subject of this thread?

I certainly get the impression you are in support of failing to keep "the whole counsel of God" through your extremely limited view on the meaning of the Sabbath.

But presumably the above quotes are [i]not[/i] meant to confess this!

So what do you mean?

Quote:
they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth.

This certainly seems to apply to your understanding of the Sabbath.

No doubt we all do this, however hard we try not to, but at least some of us are willing to face that possibility. For example, the danger of doing that is the main reason I'm not a Calvinist, [i]or[/i] an Arminian, and (while having opinions on the matter) don't commit myself re theories on the exact scenario of "the Last Days".

Can't you even consider the [i]possibility[/i] that there is more to the Sabbath than merely keeping one day in seven as a rest day? It certainly seems as if you, and some others here, are so locked into this aspect that you can't see anything else. ...Even to the extent of imagining that others of us oppose the 4th commandment because we speak of the wider, spiritual truth of it!


in Him


Jeannette




 2008/2/11 16:38
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:

Quote:

KrispyKrittr wrote:
Sharon, actually I appreciate the fact that it was brought to light in this thread that you apparently question the diety of Christ. (at least thats what I have gotten out of this)

Thats important for me to know when discussing [b]anything[/b] with you because if we dont have Christ's diety in common... we have nothing in common... and therefore nothing to discuss.

At the beginning of this thread I did not know that piece of important information.

Krispy



Thank you for bringing this up Krispy. I was going to respond about this point specifically but wanted to bring it to the Lord first. Your post helped to confirm what I was thinking as well.

If someone does not believe in Christ's deity, what can we learn from them? Seriously? All that can be learned is something that is not of God. Which I want no part of anyone that is trying to teach me that Christ is not who He is.

Thanks for the confirmation again.


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/11 16:59Profile
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re: the judgement

Krispy Kritter: quote:
[i]"Thats important for me to know when discussing anything with you because if we dont have Christ's diety in common... we have nothing in common... and therefore nothing to discuss"[/i]

I am sorry that you feel that way KrispKritter.:-(

However, I rest assured in the knowledge that [b]I stand accepted by the Most High God through the wonderful and glorious accomplishment of Yeshua, the Anointed One, the Son of the living God, and you will have to take up your case against me, with Him[/b].

I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with [b]every hope[/b] of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.

2 Corinthians 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad.

Acts 17:31 Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead.

Revelation 20:12-15 And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. [b]And the dead were judged according to their works[/b], by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one [b]according to his works.[/b] Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

1 Tim 2:5*: "For there is [b]one God[/b], and there is [b]one mediator[/b] between God and men, the [b]man Christ Jesus[/b], who gave himself as a ransom for all".
In the name of the Mediator, the man, Christ Jesus,
Sharon

*edited took out verse 6

 2008/2/11 17:07Profile









 Re:

Quote:

wildbranch wrote:
HeReigns,

Are you castigating me for quoting from a fellow-posters comments and then addressing that portion? I see that done over and over again on the message board, and yet you feel to address me...

As to the deity issue- Do you not recall that the moderators requested that the subject be closed? Why are you constantly baiting me to enter into the debate again? You have in the past judged and condemned me, and now you are again trying to convene a 'pre-judgement seat' here.

If you wish to continue addressing me on this subject, in a personal way, HeReigns, feel free to contact me via my e-mail. I will be more than happy to address all your concerns.

Sharon

Now who's being personal?

Actually, Sharon I think Annie (HE_Reigns) was trying to "defend" me, because of the way she (rightly or wrongly) felt you dealt with my post!

It's the old mother sheep instinct (I have it too), concern for the lambs who are under attack or might be caused to stumble...

Your post didn't bother me in that way, although I did get frustrated because you apparently won't even [i]try[/i] to consider or understand what I was saying!

...Dear Annie, I'm a grown up lamb now, and don't really need you to rush to my defence (at least I think that was what you were doing) ;-)

Sharon, when you post your own agendas on this forum you can expect to be opposed, because you clearly don't want a discussion, just to push your own false teachings onto others.

Some of the things I [i]wanted[/i] to say to you were probably stronger than anything Annie wrote. But for the Lord's sake, and for the sake of those reading this, and for [i]your[/i] sake...

Blessings

Jeannette

 2008/2/11 17:14









 Re:

Quote:
I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.



OK, you don't feel your forgiveness of sin was complete the moment you received Jesus Christ?

Sharon, why all the pretentiousness with this [u][b]Yeshua Ha Maschiach[/b][/u]stuff? do you think it gives you more power or authority or something ? I'm not impressed by it, and never was!!!! Sounds Harsh Huh! But I can see through all the pretentiousness a *void* of the true **Gospel**.No matter how many names you know God by.

There are many cults and sects calling themselves Messianic this or that using this language.

Sharon, who do you say Jesus Christ is? You replied back to Krispy with:

Quote:
However, I rest assured in the knowledge that I stand accepted by the Most High God through the wonderful and glorious accomplishment of Yeshua, the Anointed One, the Son of the living God, and you will have to take up your case against me, with Him.



Is your Yeshua not God? You call Him *[u]The Atoned one[/u]*. That's rather new and different. Is He the atoned one, or the One who has atoned?

Katy

 2008/2/11 17:32
Miccah
Member



Joined: 2007/9/13
Posts: 1752
Wisconsin

 Re:


wildbranch wrote:

Quote:
In the name of the Mediator, the man, Christ Jesus,
Sharon



Are you saying that Jesus is only a man, mediating for God?

:-o :-( :-(


_________________
Christiaan

 2008/2/11 17:37Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Katy-did wrote:
Quote:
I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.


Sharon, many, or most, of us on SI [i]already have[/i] eternal life. Don't you? Haven't you ever received Him?

Quote:
...Sharon, why all the pretentiousness with this [u][b]Yeshua Ha Maschiach[/b][/u]stuff? do you think it gives you more power or authority or something ? I'm not impressed by it, and never was!!!! Sounds Harsh Huh! But I can see through all the pretentiousness a *void* of the true **Gospel**.No matter how many names you know God by.

I agree. Merely knowing a name and thinking that gives a right to anything is more akin to witchcraft (ie knowing the name of a deity or demon in order to be able to control it - or perhaps to impress in this case?) Anyone can say the Name of Jesus or Yeshua or whoever, but having a real living relatiohnship with Him, and operating in His authority is something different.

Remember the sons of Sceva in Acts?

If you are a fluent Hebrew speaker you would naturally use Hebrew terms when speaking with other Hebrew speakers. Even if you were Jewish by descent, (like Katy) but not a Hebrew speaker, it would still be an affectation.

Quote:
Sharon, who do you say Jesus Christ is?..

Sharon, Even "doubting" Thomas called Jesus, "My Lord and my God!" If you can't do so there is something very deeply wrong with your faith.

If you can't accept even basic truths where [i]are[/i] you going to be on the day of Judgement?

This is said out of concern, not to condemn.

Wake up! Before it's too late.


Jeannette

 2008/2/11 18:10
wildbranch
Member



Joined: 2005/7/20
Posts: 138


 Re: 1 Tim 2:5

Quote:

Miccah wrote:
[i]
Quote:
In the name of the Mediator, the man, Christ Jesus,
Sharon


Are you saying that Jesus is only a man, mediating for God?[/i]


Miccah, just quoting Scripture there (from Paul)

1 Tim. 5:5+6:
[color=660000]"For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all"[/color]

[i]Is that ok?[/i]
:-)

 2008/2/11 18:26Profile









 Re:

Katy-did,

Wildbranch said :

Quote. [color=0000ff]I, however, feel confident because of His mercy and grace, and because of my High Priest and Advocate, Yeshua Ha Maschiach, to approach the day of judgement with every hope of being rewarded with eternal life. Thank you.[/color] Unquote.

This sounds like a wonderful testimony and quite scriptural. Why would you want to attack this ? You are correct in saying this sounds very HARSH.

Your use of the terms "cults and sects" sounds rude and unnecessary.

Katy-did, you said:

Quote: [color=0000ff]Is your Yeshua not God? You call Him *The Atoned one*. That's rather new and different. Is He the atoned one, or the One who has atoned? [/color] Unquote.

On reading Wildbranch's post I don't see 'atoned' One, but rather 'Anointed' One. You know that there is a very distinct difference between 'atoned' and 'anointed' no doubt? You should probably get back to her on this, because if you have confused me, I can only imagine her horror and amazement. :-)

LOL ... i'd be laughing is this wasn't such a sad testimony and poor witnesss to someone who seems to be sincerely seeking.

Shalom,

Stephen


[color=00000][b] "O for a thousand tongues to sing my great Redeemers' praise" [/color][/b]


 2008/2/11 18:55





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