Greetings,There has been a little discussion on the issue of 'Sabbath keeping' on the board. One or two people stood up for the remembering of the 4th commandment, while others opposed it, even hinting that one might be 'fallen from grace' to engage in Sabbath keeping. [i]quote from the thread on the 'Sabbath":...."Do you not understand that Jesus came to fulfil the Law? He did not come to fulfill man's petty interpretations of the Law - or even the limited, temporary version given through Moses; He fulfilled the utter fulness of it - which is far, far beyond keeping mere rules. That includes the Sabbath...Jay, either you have a dishonest agenda of your own, (dishonest in the sense of having no intention of understanding or being convinced of the truth) or you still have the veil over the heart, as did the Jews of Paul's day who did not yet believe in Jesus. 2Corinthians 3, and the beginning of chapter 4, speaks of this. This passage also speaks of the doing away of the Law of Moses, in exchange for a greater Law. There are other scriptures - many - but it's getting late and I've had a hard day)....I'm not accusing you of being stupid, but, unless you are deliberately avoiding truth for your own ends, there has to be some kind of blindness there!"....end quote.[/i]I would just like to point out that Charles Spurgeon and A.W. Pink had a good understanding on the 4th commandment, and I do not believe that they were blind, or had any dishonest agenda:[b]FROM CHARLES SPURGEON'S CATECHISM (WHAT IS TO BE TAUGHT TO CHILDREN): 49 Q Which is the fourth commandment? A The fourth commandment is, Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor they cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. 50 Q What is required in the fourth commandment? A The fourth commandment requires the keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven, to be a holy Sabbath to himself (Le 19:30 De 5:12). 51 Q How is the Sabbath to be sanctified? A The Sabbath is to be sanctified by a holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days (Le 23:3), and spending the whole time in the public and private exercises of God's worship (Ps 92:1,2 Isa 58:13,14), except so much as is taken up in the works of necessity and mercy (Mt 12:11,12). "...the reason why people become Hyper-Calvinists and Antinomians, is because some, who profess to be Calvinists, often keep back part of the truth, and do not, as Paul did, "declare all the counsel of God"; they select certain parts of Scripture, where their own particular views are taught, and pass by other aspects of God's truth. Such preachers as John Newton, and in later times, your own Christmas Evans, were men who preached the whole truth of God; they kept back nothing that God has revealed; and, as the result of their preaching, Antinomianism could not find a foot-hold anywhere." (Charles Spurgeon, Gospel of Sovereign Grace). "It is to be feared that some zealous brethren have preached the doctrine of justification by faith not only so boldly and so plainly, but also so baldly and so out of all connection with other truth, that they have led men into presumptuous confidences, and have appeared to lend their countenance to a species of Antinomianism very much to be dreaded. From a dead, fruitless, inoperative faith we may earnestly pray, "Good Lord, deliver us," yet may we be unconsciously, fostering it." (Charles Spurgeon, Faith and Regeneration)[/b] While praying for revival, let us consider these things, dear ones.Sharon
Another quick quote from A.W.Pink:[b]But some may ask, "Has not the Law been fully abrogated by the coming of Christ into the world? Would you bring us under that heavy yoke of bondage which none has ever been able to bear? Does not the New Testament expressly declare that we are not under the Law, but under Grace; that Christ was made under the Law to free His people therefrom? Is not an attempt to overawe mens conscience by the authority of the Decalogue (ten commandments) a legalistic imposition, altogether at variance with that Christian liberty which the Savior has brought in by His obedience unto death?" We answer thus: So far from the Law being abolished by the coming of Christ into this world, He Himself emphatically stated, "Think not that I am come to destroy the Law or the Prophets (the enforcers thereof): I am come not to destroy, but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in nowise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" (Matthew 5:17, 18) . True, the Christian is not under the Law as a Covenant of Works nor as a ministration of condemnation, but he is under it as a rule of life and a means of sanctification." (A.W. Pink - The Ten Commandments)[/b] In the grace of God, through our Messiah,Sharon
Just an observation here... but why dont people on here argue their points using scripture anymore? Everyone quotes Spurgeon, Pink, Pratney... etc... as tho their words were God breathed.I love Spurgeon, but if something he said doesnt jive w/ scripture, I'll dump Spurgeon in a heartbeat.This is the same type of mentality that got me caught up in the Charismatic/WOF movememnt when I was first saved. I listened to mens opinions about the Bible instead of studying to show myself approved. But then... I was newly saved and very immature in the faith.Just wondering...Krispy
KrispyKrittr wrote:Just an observation here... but why dont people on here argue their points using scripture anymore? Everyone quotes Spurgeon, Pink, Pratney... etc... as tho their words were God breathed.I love Spurgeon, but if something he said doesnt jive w/ scripture, I'll dump Spurgeon in a heartbeat.This is the same type of mentality that got me caught up in the Charismatic/WOF movememnt when I was first saved. I listened to mens opinions about the Bible instead of studying to show myself approved. But then... I was newly saved and very immature in the faith.Just wondering...Krispy
But if you're going to come here and begin a discussion about following the law of the Sabbath, then you should do so with much scripural backing. I have no problem discussing what men have said about this or that (reference the recent discussions about Calvinism... which is ALL about man's opinions since Calvinism is not scriptural at all)... but I believe you have an agenda, which is to convince us all that we need to observe the Sabbath. When doing so, you should have more than "Charles Spurgeon said....".Thats all I'm saying.Do you keep the Sabbath? If so... which one? Saturday? Sunday? Do you allow for other believers to keep one day holy, and yet another believe to keep another day holy... as Paul did?I'm not against a day of rest, and making that day a special day during the week in which you dedicate it totally to the Lord. My issue is when people make a law out of which day, which time of day, what you should or shouldnt do...The Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.Krispy
I find it funny that any "sabbath-keeper" would quote Spurgeon and Pink to support their beliefs, since neither of this men observed the Sabbath from friday evening to saturday evening. From the apostles to all historic Christianity, the day of fellowship and "rest" has always been the first day of the week, Sunday.I have found [url=http://www.exadventist.com/Home/Sabbath/tabid/53/Default.aspx]this[/url] page to be a great resource, you might want to look into it.
wildbranch/Sharon, why would you take that Sister's post and bring it here to display and answer, when she gave Scriptures that you left out of her post.Spurgeon, Pink, and the poster who's post you partially quoted also believe in The Deity of Christ - you Don't.I'm sorry that I do see that as a Main factor in ALL things - for "No other Foundation can be laid, But Christ" ... anything that you try to build unto a 'different' foundation will not stand before HIM - The Alpha and The Omega, the First and The Last.How can you fault the poster you've quoted ?
HeReigns, Are you castigating me for quoting from a fellow-posters comments and then addressing that portion? I see that done over and over again on the message board, and yet you feel to address me. As to the deity issue- Do you not recall that the moderators requested that the subject be closed? Why are you constantly baiting me to enter into the debate again? You have in the past judged and condemned me, and now you are again trying to convene a 'pre-judgement seat' here. Yeshua Messiah will be my judge, and I trust in His merciful and righteous judgement, thank you. I feel that I am in good company with the Apostle Peter when asked by Yeshua who He was, when I too declare: [b]"You are the Anointed One, the Son of the living God"[/b]. Yeshua said that Peter is blessed, for His Father in Heaven had revealed that knowledge to Peter, and upon it, Yeshua would build his church. To further support my belief in who Jesus/Yeshua is, I will again use Scripture as my creed. Here is a re-post. Matt 16: 15-17 "He said to them, "But who do you say that I am?" Simon Peter replied, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." And Jesus answered him, "Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. John 17: 3 "And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent". Luke 1: 32-33 "He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Most High; and the Lord God will give to him the throne of his father David, and he will reign over the house of Jacob for ever;and of his kingdom there will be no end." 1 Tim 2: 5-6a: "For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all" 1 Cor 8: 5-6: "For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth -- as indeed there are many "gods" and many "lords" -- yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." Acts 4: 10-12: "be it known to you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom you crucified, whom God raised from the dead, by him this man is standing before you well. This is the stone which was rejected by you builders, but which has become the head of the corner. And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved." Acts 5: 30-31: " But Peter and the apostles answered, "We must obey God rather than men. The God of our fathers raised Jesus whom you killed by hanging him on a tree. God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins. And we are witnesses to these things, and so is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey him." Acts 7: 55-56: "But he (Stephen), full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing at the right hand of God." Heb 7:21-22 "...The Lord has sworn and will not change his mind, `Thou art a priest for ever.'" This makes Jesus the surety of a better covenant. The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office; but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues for ever. Consequently he is able for all time to save those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them. For it was fitting that we should have such a high priest, holy, blameless, unstained, separated from sinners, exalted above the heavens. Rev 3:14 "The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation' Rom 1 3-4 "the gospel concerning his Son, who was descended from David according to the flesh and designated Son of God in power according to the Spirit of holiness by his resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord. If you wish to continue addressing me on this subject, in a personal way, HeReigns, feel free to contact me via my e-mail. I will be more than happy to address all your concerns. Peace to you,[b]In the name Yeshua, 'the faithful and true Witness, the beginning of the creation of God'[/b] (Revelation 3:14)Sharon
Castigate - no. Sincere heart felt concern for one who is a member - yes.I feel we should be concerned for each other. I'm into "each othering" as Chip Brogden and those teach. We should care. To care is not 'bating'. I posted Scriptures for your consideration because I still do feel that it is important to our souls to see Him rightly.That was it and always has been. Only The Word of God - both Christ Himself and His Word can "judge and condemn" - it is not something I can do.
Just a little FYI here. A Messianic Jew is not just Jewish believers, but a system of beliefs, representing both Jew and Gentile Believers.Although I am a Born-Again Jew, I consider myself a COMPLETED Jew, because I am COMPLETE in Christ.There are many things this Messianic System believes, and many you may be surprised. Some do not believe in the Deity of Jesus Christ.Many do not believe in the complete Atonement at the Cross, but believe that won't be fulfilled until Jesus returns to earth. Wrong Answer! And because of these INCOMPLETE and inconsistencies we have the sabbath-keepers."Messianic Judaism" is the term used to define a system of belief and practice embraced by Jewish and non-Jewish people who believe in Messiah Yeshua (Jesus). Messianic Jews maintain a lifestyle and form of worship that identifies them with Jewish customs and traditions while believing that Yeshua (Jesus) of Nazareth is the promised Messiah of the Jewish Scriptures.Messianic Judaism is part of the universal Body of Messiah, but Messianic believers claim the right to express themselves in a way that identifies with Jewish heritage and with the original Jewish context of belief in Yeshua.However, reading Galatians, no such practices are taught by Paul.Love in ChristKaty