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daniel-
Member



Joined: 2005/8/25
Posts: 130
Germany

 End Time Revival / Harvest ?

Hello friends,

lately it seems this issue has been discussed quite a lot. Here is some food-thought which I just recognized now:

Revelation 7

[b]9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number[/b], of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

10And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.

11And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,

12Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.

13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, [b]These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.[/b]


Daniel


_________________
Daniel Sahm

 2008/2/6 14:47Profile









 Re: End Time Revival / Harvest ?

This that you've posted from Chpt. 7 is the answer to this from Chpt. 6 -

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
Rev 6:11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

 2008/2/6 16:20









 Re:

Hi Daniel, your post got me thinking on this since --- that these are not just Jews or those saved After the “Rapture” -- if it will be only Jews and those saved after the "Rapture" then, [i]they[/i] will be the only ones ruling/reigning with Him when He Comes - all of these below go with those above -



[u]Dan 7:13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. Dan 7:14 And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. [/u]Dan 7:15 I Daniel was grieved in my spirit in the midst of my body, and the visions of my head troubled me. Dan 7:16 I came near unto one of them that stood by, and asked him the truth of all this. So he told me, and made me know the interpretation of the things. Dan 7:17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth. Dan 7:18 But the [u]saints[/u] of the most High shall take the kingdom, and possess the kingdom forever, even forever and ever. Dan 7:19 Then I would know the truth of the fourth beast, which was diverse from all the others, exceeding dreadful, whose teeth were of iron, and his nails of brass; which devoured, broke in pieces, and stamped the residue with his feet; Dan 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spoke very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows. Dan 7:21 [u]I beheld, and the same horn made war with the Saints, and prevailed against them; Dan 7:22 [i]Until the Ancient of days came[/i], and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.[/u] Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces. Dan 7:24 And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings. Dan 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall [u]wear out the saints[/u] of the most High, and think to change times and laws: [u]and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.[/u] Dan 7:26 But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end. Dan 7:27 [i]And the kingdom and dominion, and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven, shall be given to the people of the[u] saints[/u] of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom, and all dominions shall serve and obey Him.[/i]


The ‘Saints’ of Daniel are represented by the Aramaic word kad-deesh'.
This word {#6922} is only used for “Saints” here in Chapter 7 of Daniel; and only 6 times.
The only other place this word is used in the Bible, is also found in Daniel.
In Chapters 4 and 5, Daniel uses this same word 7 times to speak of a “holy one” and “Holy One”.
Most readers will recognize the Son of man in Daniel 7:13 & 14 and later the little horn, as the antiChrist.
These ‘Saints’ go through the same battle as do those in the book of the Revelation 13. Also in the Greek the word for Saints is the same as Holy, #40.


Rev 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odors, which are [u]the prayers of saints.[/u]

Rev 6:9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: Rev 6:10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? Rev 6:11 [u] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellow servants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. [/u]

Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of the great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. [i][They which come out of [u]the[/u] great tribulation - hoi erchomenoi ek tes thlipseos tes megales] {2Pe 3:11 ,12Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? ~~ 2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.}[/i]

Rev 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with [u]the prayers of all saints[/u] upon the golden altar which was before the throne. Rev 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with [u]the prayers of the saints, ascended up[/u] before God out of the angel's hand.

Rev 11:15 [u]And the seventh angel sounded[/u]; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever. Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshiped God, Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned. Rev 11:18 [u] And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, [i]and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great[/i]; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth. [/u]

Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death. Rev 12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabitants of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time. Rev 12:17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to [u]make war with the saints, and to overcome them[/u]: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. Rev 13:8 [u]And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:9 If any man have an ear, let him hear. Rev 13:10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. [/u]

[u]Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labors; and their works do follow them. [/u]

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were [u]a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name[/u], stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God. Rev 15:3 And they sing the song of Moses the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, Great and marvelous are thy works, Lord God Almighty; just and true are thy ways, [u]Thou King of saints.[/u]

Rev 16:2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell [u]a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshiped his image. [/u]

Rev 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with [u]the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus[/u]: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Rev 18:24 And in her was found the [u]blood of prophets, and of saints[/u], and of all that were slain upon the earth.

[u]Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the First resurrection. Rev 20:6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the First resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/u]

Daniel 11-12 tells us more about this antiChrist and mentions these ‘holy ones’ at the time of this antiChrist’s reign.

Dan 11:20 Then shall stand up in his estate a raiser of taxes in the glory of the kingdom: but within few days he shall be destroyed, neither in anger, nor in battle. Dan 11:21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honor of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom [u]by flatteries[/u]. Dan 11:22 And with the arms of a flood shall they be overflown from before him, and shall be broken; yea, also the prince of the covenant. Dan 11:23 And after the league made with him [u]he shall work deceitfully[/u]: for he shall come up, and shall become strong with a small people. Dan 11:24 [u]He shall enter peaceably[/u] even upon the fattest places of the province; and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor his fathers' fathers; he shall scatter among them the prey, and spoil, and riches: yea, and he shall forecast his devices against the strongholds, even for a time. Dan 11:25 And he shall stir up his power and his courage against the king of the south with a great army; and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a very great and mighty army; but he shall not stand: for they shall forecast devices against him. Dan 11:26 Yea, they that feed of the portion of his meat shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow: and many shall fall down slain. Dan 11:27 And both these kings' hearts shall be to do mischief, and they shall speak lies at one table; but it shall not prosper: for yet the end shall be at the time appointed. Dan 11:28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. Dan 11:29 At the time appointed he shall return, and come toward the south; but it shall not be as the former, or as the latter. Dan 11:30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant. Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate. [u]Dan 11:32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. Dan 11:33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days. Dan 11:34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be helped with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries. Dan 11:35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed. [/u]Dan 11:36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvelous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done. Dan 11:37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all. Dan 11:38 But in his estate shall he honor the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honor with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things. Dan 11:39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain. Dan 11:40 And at the time of the end shall the king of the south push at him: and the king of the north shall come against him like a whirlwind, with chariots, and with horsemen, and with many ships; and he shall enter into the countries, and shall overflow and pass over. Dan 11:41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon. Dan 11:42 He shall stretch forth his hand also upon the countries: and the land of Egypt shall not escape. Dan 11:43 But he shall have power over the treasures of gold and of silver, and over all the precious things of Egypt: and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his steps. Dan 11:44 But tidings out of the east and out of the north shall trouble him: therefore he shall go forth with great fury to destroy, and utterly to make away many. Dan 11:45 And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him. Dan 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: [u]and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Dan 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars forever and ever. [/u]Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased. Dan 12:5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river. Dan 12:6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders? Dan 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and swore by him that liveth forever that i[u]t shall be for a time, times, and a half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.[/u] Dan 12:8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? Dan 12:9 [u] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.[/u] Dan 12:11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days. Dan 12:12 [u] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days. Dan 12:13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.[/u]



Thanks brother !

 2008/2/7 2:03
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re: End Time Revival / Harvest ?

Daniel;

We the church will go through the Trib fullstop.

Any other teaching is a lie striaght from Hell.

What God will do is this, he'll find a man. The way he has always done it.

Through this man he will prepare a people who will be overcomers. These group of people will live on this earth while the anti christ is hear and they will overcome the powers of darkness.

I could write a long message to you but right know I have not got the time. I will give you one scripture and this is it.

Rev 15 v 1-2 I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, which are the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God. And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/7 8:39Profile









 Re:

Quote:

murrcolr wrote:
Daniel;

We the church will go through the Trib fullstop.

Any other teaching is a lie striaght from Hell.

What God will do is this, he'll find a man. The way he has always done it.

Through this man he will prepare a people who will be overcomers. These group of people will live on this earth while the anti christ is hear and they will overcome the powers of darkness.

I could write a long message to you but right know I have not got the time. I will give you one scripture and this is it.

Rev 15 v 1-2 I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having seven plagues, which are the last, for in them is finished the wrath of God. And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.





Brother Murr ~ I'm sorry dear Brother, but I don't understand your post. I'm a little slow but could you provide Scripture for what you've posted?

Where is "this man" found and are you saying we conquer 'while still in this not-glorified body' ?

Thank you!!!

 2008/2/7 16:55
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4502


 Re:

Hi murrcolr...

Quote:
We the church will go through the Trib fullstop.

Any other teaching is [b]a lie striaght from Hell[/b].


No, it is simply a [i]theory[/i] that some of us have based upon Scripture. There are actually quite a few of us here who [i]lean[/i] toward a belief in a "taking away" that will happen before the "hour" of God's wrath. While we many not all be the most loudly vocal about our beliefs or leanings, they are our own personal conclusions from Scripture nonetheless.

Brother, do we need to be so seemingly belligerent with our rhetoric in regard to our own ideas about the timeline and manner in which the Lord will return? How would post-trib believers feel if this manner was returned in regard to their beliefs? In other words, can we be a little more kind and patient when discussing our beliefs?

I don't mean to get involved in yet another End Times discussion which might result with a few individuals attempting to warn about the "[i]heresy[/i]" (or possible "[i]deception[/i]") that arises from contemplating the possibility that the Church might not be appointed to suffer the hour of God's indiscriminate wrath upon the Earth. Can't we ever discuss an issue or variation in such beliefs without using such damaging rhetoric or implications?

Let's consider the possibility of discussing such things without calling alternative views "[i]a lie[/i]."

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/2/7 17:17Profile









 Re:

Dear Brother Murray, I pray you didn't see my post as an attack on you. I just didn't know what you meant by "a man" and overcoming.

You're a dear brother indeed but I've never discussed end-times with you personally, so just requested a better understanding.

Before finding SI, I was more accustomed to Theological Forums, where "debate rules" or decorum was clearly in print.

The only thing that could not be done was to call one another names - keep to the topic - provide our Scriptural proofs - not take the issue to a personal level but stay on topic.

Hope we could practice that here.

The Debate Section of the Forum was separate and only two could debate each other at a time and there was another section for others to comment on what they were viewing of the two debating. It was very neat actually.

The two would be trying to prove which particular doctrine they saw was true, by obviously stating in many ways that the other was not true, besides providing their Scriptural/Historical backing of why their position was true - in their view.

It stayed friendly and I always loved to see how folks could debate without getting personal or taking the differences personally. Very mature.

Hoping to one day have all issues addressed in this manner. Just address the topics and not let emotions or judgments on person's motives get in the way.


GOD Bless!!!

 2008/2/7 17:40
rowdy2
Member



Joined: 2007/1/21
Posts: 528
Southern USA

 Re: End Time Revival / Harvest ?

Reply to Daniel and Annie
You bless my soul. Some related Scripture, notes and comments.


THE KINGDOM THAT IS FILLING THE WHOLE WORLD

Rapture=Consuption=Hearvest 144,000

The Assyrian = LUCIFER=Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon. Father of all false religions

(Isa.14:12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground,
[which didst weaken the nations]!

Who was the tree chopped down and his stump put in bands?

What was his sin? Pretending to be God and attempting to make everyone worship his image a man not made in the spiritual image of God.. Filling the world with all false religions
then, and the wound healed and is still the cookie cutter that is stamping out the deceived today

Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your [bands] be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

False Religion=Satan
Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn? Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee? Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever? Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?


I will also make it a possession for the bittern, and pools of water: and I will sweep it with the Besom of destruction, saith the Lord of hosts. The Lord of hosts hath sworn, saying, Surely as I have thought, so shall it come to pass; and as I have purposed, so shall it stand that I will break the Assyrian in my land, and upon my mountains tread him under foot: then shall his yoke depart from off them, and his burden depart from off their shoulders. This is the purpose that is purposed upon the whole earth: and this is the hand that is stretched out upon all the nations.
For the Lord of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back?



/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
For though thy people Israel be as the sand of the sea, yet a remnant of them shall return: the consumption decreed shall overflow with righteousness. For the Lord God of hosts shall make a consumption, even determined, in the midst of all the land. Therefore thus saith the Lord God of hosts, O my people that dwellest in Zion, be not afraid of the Assyrian: he shall smite thee with a rod, and shall lift up his staff against thee, after the manner of Egypt.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree. For my sword shall be bathed in heaven: behold, it shall come down upon Idumea, and upon the people of my curse, to judgment.

I have made the earth, the man and the beast that are upon the ground, by my great power and by my outstretched arm, and have given it unto whom it seemed meet unto me.
And now have I given all these lands into the hand of Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him. And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him. And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the Lord, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand. Therefore hearken not ye to your prophets, nor to your diviners, nor to your dreamers, nor to your enchanters, nor to your sorcerers, which speak unto you, saying, Ye shall not serve the king of Babylon. For they prophesy a lie unto you, to remove you far from your land; and that I should drive you out, and ye should perish.
But the nations that bring their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, and serve him, those will I let remain still in their own land, saith the Lord; and they shall till it, and dwell therein.
Wilderness of,

2Kings.3-8 And he said, Which way shall we go up? And he answered, The way through the wilderness of Edom

Isiah 63-1. Who is this that cometh from Edom, with dyed garments from Bozrah? this that is glorious in his apparel, travelling in the greatness of his strength? I that speak in righteousness, mighty to save.


Daniel 11-41 He shall enter also into the glorious land, and many countries shall be overthrown: but these shall escape out of his hand, even Edom, and Moab, and the chief of the children of Ammon the Edomites the spiritual foes of the spiritual city Zion

Give ye ear, and hear my voice; hearken, and hear my speech.Doth the plowman plow all day to sow? doth he open and break the clods of his ground? When he hath made plain the face thereof, doth he not cast abroad the fitches, and scatter the cummin, and cast in the principal wheat and the appointed barley and the rie in their place? For his God doth instruct him to discretion, and doth teach him.


Seek ye the King the King of Kings, Who’s kingdom is filling the whole world and will last for ever.


_________________
Eddie

 2008/2/7 19:42Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

HE_Reigns Said;

Dear Brother Murray, I pray you didn't see my post as an attack on you. I just didn't know what you meant by "a man" and overcoming.

--------------------------------------------

It never came across my mind.

I will say this today there are a lot of simple theroy's going about. They might look innocent enough but beware.

Peter says in

II Peter 2 v 1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

People could be going about saying oh they are but simple theories. But these simple theories shall bring swift destruction on those who speak them and those who believe them.

How can people get so upset when you call a lie a lie. I was attacking no man just the lie.

We will face the Anti Christ in the Tribulation!!!!!!!!!!!

Anything else is a lie which has come out from Hell itself.

------------------------------------------------

The way God did it in the Past the way he will do it in this generation.

God will find a Chosen vessel he will make a covenant with that Chosen vessel. Through him. God will prepare a People. God will have a People of Victory .

Stephen Kaung (John The Baptist)
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1908

That teaching will help you understand as well.

------------------------------------------

Abraham meaning is Father of a multitude or many nations

God finds a man who will be the Father of a multitude or many nations

Gen 17 v 5 Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Israel meaning is God perseveres

(Jacob)Israel a nation is born

Gen 32 v 28 And he said, Thy name shall be called no more Jacob, but Israel: for as a prince hast thou power with God and with men, and hast prevailed.

Moses meaning is drawn out of the water

Dispensation of Law is ushered in the whole

Nation of Israel is drawn out of the water.

Exodus 2 v 10 And the child grew, and she brought him unto Pharaoh' daughter, and he became her son. And she called his name Moses: and she said, Because I drew him out of the water.

John meaning is the Lord is gracious

The dispensation of grace is ushered in, and the People are prepared for the Messiah.

Matthew 3 1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

Peter meaning is rock

The church foundation is laid and built upon Peter's leadership

Matt 16 v 18 "And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. "

Paul meaning is small

Paul goes to the Nations (Gentiles) kings, and the children of Israel to preach the Gospel.

Acts 9 v 15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles and kings, and the children of Israel:

I Corinthians 15 v 9 For I am the least (Small) of the apostles, that am not meet to be called an apostle, because I persecuted the church of God.

What does God know want to do today. We no Jesus is coming back, in this significant timing will he not again do what he did in the past and find a man.

God again wants to prepare a people to stand against the 8th King and be without spot or wrinkle who are ready for that great wedding day.

1. The 8th King is coming.
2. The Messiah is coming back for a people a church his bride.

Revelation of John 3 v 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock: if any man hear my voice and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. 21 He that overcometh, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne. 22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith to the churches.

Rev 15 v 2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire; and them that come off victorious from the beast, and from his image, and from the number of his name, standing by the sea of glass, having harps of God.

Rev 17 v 9 Here is the mind that hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth: 10 and they are seven kings; the five are fallen, the one is, the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a little while. 11 And the beast that was, and is not, is himself also an eighth, and is of the seven; and he goeth into perdition. 12 And the ten horns that thou sawest are ten kings, who have received no kingdom as yet; but they receive authority as kings, with the beast, for one hour. 13 These have one mind, and they give their power and authority unto the beast. 14 These shall war against the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them, for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings; and they also shall overcome that are with him, called and chosen and faithful.

They are the ones that have come off victorious from the beast, his image and from the number of his name. They never worshiped the beast, his image and never took his number. These people where alive when the beast is on earth and never bowed to the beast image.

Dan 3 v 4-5 Then the herald cried aloud, To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the golden image that Nebuchadnezzar the king hath set up; and whoso falleth not down and worshippeth shall the same hour be cast into the midst of a burning fiery furnace.
Dan 3 v13-15 Then Nebuchadnezzar in his rage and fury commanded to bring Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego. Then they brought these men before the king. Nebuchadnezzar answered and said unto them, Is it of purpose, O Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego, that ye serve not my god, nor worship the golden image which I have set up? Now if ye be ready that at what time ye hear the sound of the cornet, flute, harp, sackbut, psaltery, and dulcimer, and all kinds of music, ye fall down and worship the image which I have made, well : but if ye worship not, ye shall be cast the same hour into the midst of a burning fiery furnace; and who is that god that shall deliver you out of my hands?

What did Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego answer.

Dan 3 16-18 Shadrach, Meshach, and Abed-nego answered and said to the king, O Nebuchadnezzar, we have no need to answer thee in this matter. If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the burning fiery furnace; and he will deliver us out of thy hand, O king. But if not, be it known unto thee, O king, that we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

They answered the God we serve will deliver us out of the fiery furnace and the hand King. Who did these men think they where that could be so belligerent to a King?

Does not God want to show his Greatness through his people on this earth? Of course he does.

We sing the songs like this Our God is a awesome God, He reigns from heaven above with wisdom, power and love, Our God is an awesome God.

Do we believe it........................?

Ps 145 3-7 Great is Jehovah, and greatly to be praised; and his greatness is unsearchable. One generation shall laud thy works to another, and shall declare thy mighty acts. Of the glorious majesty of thine honour, And of thy wondrous works, will I meditate. And men shall speak of the might of thy terrible acts; and I will declare thy greatness. They shall utter the memory of thy great goodness, And shall sing of thy righteousness.

Will not this Generation shout about God Greatness to the others?

Our God is so great, so strong and so mighty! Our God is an awesome God. Will not this generation Glorify God and tell of his works.

Will God leave us in this defeated state. That we his people are in now and let his name be rubbish because of us................

Those three men that were so belligerent to a King did not have what we have today. Yet they could stand while in captivity, while everyone else was worshipping the image say we will not worship the image you have set up.

Don’t be taken in by anyone who says that we will not face the 8th King (Anti Christ).

We shall overcome that are with him, we will be called and chosen and faithful. We will say to the 8th King. O king we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Know that is what I call a belligerent attitude and God loves it.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2008/2/8 15:18Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4502


 Re:

Hi murrcol…

Quote:
I will say this today there are a lot of simple theroy's going about. They might look innocent enough but beware.

Peter says in

II Peter 2 v 1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

People could be going about saying oh they are but simple theories. But these simply theories shall bring swift destruction on those who speak them and those who believe them.

How can people get so upset [b]when you call a lie a lie[/b]. I was attacking no man just [b]the lie[b/].

We will face the Anti Christ in the Tribulation!!!!!!!!!!!

[b]Anything else is a lie which has come out from Hell itself.[/b]


So your idea about the last days and the timing of the Lord’s return is [u][i]not[/i][/u] a theory? You are sitting there claiming that it is 100% undeniable truth? You are so convinced that you are willing to call any belief that disagrees with your own [i][b]a lie[/b][/i]? Those are strong words – for which you will stand accountable.

How would you like it if someone started threads that audaciously claimed that “those who do not believe in pre-trib are “[b]believing a lie[/b]?!?” How would that make you feel? While I am certainly NOT willing to make such a claim (primarily because I don’t know with 100% certainty the timing and exact manner of the Lord’s return), I would expect that you wouldn’t appreciate such a comment.

Over the years at SermonIndex, I have noticed that most of the divisive arguments were caused when one person (or party) stated their beliefs at [u]undeniable[/u] [u]truth[/u] while considering all other possibilities as bearing reason for discussion. Is this the best manner of our behavior? In the past, people have argued about bible translations, propriety in clothing, music, doctrinal differences, etc… Feelings are hurt when one party “rises above” the others and proclaims a “truth monopoly” concerning things that just aren’t completely clear from the Scriptures (or else there wouldn’t be a debate amongst true believers).
Quote:
They answered the God we serve will deliver us out of the fiery furnace and the hand King. Who did these men think they where that could be so belligerent to a King?
…
Those three men that were so belligerent to a King did not have what we have today. Yet they could stand while in captivity, while everyone else was worshipping the image say we will not worship the image you have set up.

Don’t be taken in by anyone who says that we will not face the 8th King (Anti Christ).

We shall overcome that are with him, we will be called and chosen and faithful. We will say to the 8th King. O king we will not serve thy gods, nor worship the golden image which thou hast set up.

Know that is what I call a belligerent attitude and God loves it.


As with your example about Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, it is a wonderful thing to be bold in the face of undeniable truth (as long as that boldness is first gentle and motivated by pure love). I would hardly call these three Hebrew youth “[i]belligerent[/i]” in their manners. They seemed quite gentle in their rhetoric with the King. Besides, they stood up for something that is above debate – not a simple doctrinal difference. This conversation is not about bowing down to other gods. It is about the exact timing and manner of our Lord’s return – something that is not exactly 100% clear to all of us from the Scriptures.

It is a wonderful blessing to have the opportunity to discuss these sorts of doctrinal issues with one another (including our different beliefs, ideas or persuasions about the timing and manner of the Lord’s return). But these things are not 100% clear to all of us. In fact, this issue has been discussed many times over the last 4+ years at SermonIndex – and many of these discussions have turned divisive when one individual (or small group) loudly proclaims their opinions about the Lord’s return as above discussion. The timing of the Lord’s return will NOT affect our relationship with Him (if it does, then something is quite possibly and seriously wrong with that relationship). Should we approach these sort of discussions with a mannerism that displays contempt for all other beliefs or views?

Is it possible to discuss such things without using such divisive rhetoric? Can we discuss this issue without showing disrespect toward the beliefs of those with whom we disagree? Let's consider the possibility of discussing such things without calling alternative views "[i]a lie[/i]." I know that this might not be an easy thing to do if you are convinced that your belief is 100% true beyond question. But it might help harbor a far more civil and meaningful discussion. Our love for one another needs to be clear in such things – enough that it would be noticeable even to the world.

:-)


_________________
Christopher

 2008/2/8 15:54Profile





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