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SimpleLiving
Member



Joined: 2008/1/11
Posts: 375
Minnesota, USA

 I have a question

Well, actually, I have a lot of them but to display my ignorance all at once would frighten the children, so I'll start with just one. ;-)

Brother Brent just posted an article by Brother Paul Ravenhill, son of Brother Leonard Ravenhill. (Don't worry Brent, you're not the subject of my question!)

We see this a lot in preaching and teaching circles, where the children and spouses of teachers and preachers come out with their own ministries and/or published books. Even among the false teachers and prophets. We even see instances where each member of the family has their own outreach.

Is this a case of the mantle of the father being passed to the son? Does it run in the family? Is it all a really odd form of nepotism? Is it the children riding the coat-tails of their fathers? Is there something in the water? Should I diversify my financial portfolio to include more than investing in beef jerky? Should Brother ccchhhrrriiisss wear his hair shorter?

These are all great mysteries to me. Jenkies! We may have to call in Scooby and the kids!

What sayest thee thou?


_________________
Keith

 2008/2/5 22:13Profile
nowhr2hide
Member



Joined: 2007/11/6
Posts: 191
Australia

 Re: I have a question


Proverbs 22:6
6 Train up a child in the way he should go,
And when he is old he will not depart from it.(NKJV)
Deuteronomy 6:7 You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

Deuteronomy 11:19 You shall teach them to your children, speaking of them when you sit in your house, when you walk by the way, when you lie down, and when you rise up.

Quote:

We see this a lot in preaching and teaching circles, where the children and spouses of teachers and preachers come out with their own ministries and/or published books.

Is this a case of the mantle of the father being passed to the son? Does it run in the family? Is it all a really odd form of nepotism? Is it the children riding the coat-tails of their fathers? Is there something in the water?

Quote:
Even among the false teachers and prophets. We even see instances where each member of the family has their own outreach.

Deuteronomy 6:
11 houses full of all good things, which you did not fill, hewn-out wells which you did not dig, vineyards and olive trees which you did not plant—when you have eaten and are full— 12 then beware, lest you forget the LORD who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage. 13 You shall fear the LORD your God and serve Him, and shall take oaths in His name. 14 You shall not go after other gods, the gods of the peoples who are all around you 15 (for the LORD your God is a jealous God among you), lest the anger of the LORD your God be aroused against you and destroy you from the face of the earth.
16 “You shall not tempt the LORD your God as you tempted Him in Massah. 17 You shall diligently keep the commandments of the LORD your God, His testimonies, and His statutes which He has commanded you.

Jeremiah 32:35
35 And they built the high places of Baal which are in the Valley of the Son of Hinnom, to cause their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire to Molech, which I did not command them, nor did it come into My mind that they should do this abomination, to cause Judah to sin.’

2 Kings 21:6
6 Also he made his son pass through the fire, practiced soothsaying, used witchcraft, and consulted spiritists and mediums. He did much evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke Him to anger.

Exodus 34:7
7 keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children and the children’s children to the third and the fourth generation.”

Matthew 21:13 And He said to them, “It is written, ‘My house shall be called a house of prayer,’ but you have made it a ‘den of thieves.’ i do understand that what the scripture actually means.

But i see this as being like our own household that should be a house of prayer, the training of the children does start inside of the godly house, if it isn't godly that the commandment of God is being contradicted, we are building a false hope and rebellious example.

Mark 10:14
14 But when Jesus saw it, He was greatly displeased and said to them, “Let the little children come to Me, and do not forbid them; for of such is the kingdom of God.

i hope this might gives you some enlightment. and i hope that how i understand of these things are right. Let the children see that we only serve one Master who holds the everlasting life.

Yours in Christ Jesus


_________________
Claudette

 2008/2/6 1:27Profile
iansmith
Member



Joined: 2006/3/22
Posts: 963
Wheaton, IL

 Re: I have a question

We only have to look at the bible for our answer. Noah had 3 sons, not all of them walked as he did. Abraham has two sons. Isaac had two sons. Jacob had twelve sons. David had many sons.

The answer is of course, sometimes the mantle gets passed and sometimes it does not. In the case of Jacob he had 12 sons, but only two that walked uprightly.


_________________
Ian Smith

 2008/2/6 10:05Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
Member



Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: I have a question

Hi SimpleLiving...

Quote:
Should Brother ccchhhrrriiisss wear his hair shorter?


:-P

Actually, I have short hair! It would probably fit within the "acceptable length" of even the strictest of old-time holiness preachers (you know, the ones that were rumored to have held rulers at the door to measure hair, dress length, etc...).

I did play the role of Jesus in a Church drama a few times. The first time that I participated, one of the directors asked me to grow my hair out. I stopped shaving and receiving hair-cuts on November 1st -- quite a few months before the play. When the time came for the "Easter" play, my "beard" was still somewhat [i]patchey[/i] -- but my hair was quite long (I didn't realize how fast my hair grows). People stopped me in Wal-Mart just to tell me that I "look like Jesus." Since I found the beard and hair quite troublesome (and I've never really cared too much for Church "dramas" -- particularly those elaborate ones that required me to be harnessed and "flown" for the ascension), I couldn't wait for the play to finish so that I could receive a shave and a haircut!

Now that I'm married, I have a wonderful wife who enjoys cutting my hair each time that she feels it is appropriate. Now, if she could only get me to comb my hair a little more often...

:-(

By the way, I have noticed the same thing about fathers and children. I'm not sure if it has anything to do with a spiritual "mantle" or just a reaction to how a child views their parents and their parents' "calling." Like you, I have seen quite a few children of ministers grow up into a similar ministry. However, I have also noticed some children of ministers who grow up never wanting to become a "full time" minister ("full time" meaning by paid occupation).


_________________
Christopher

 2008/2/6 10:12Profile









 Re:

We have to search the scriptures to see if what they are teaching is real... father, son, grandson... doesnt matter. I dont believe that God passes a "mantle" on from one generation to the next.

In the case of Billy and Franklin Graham... God didnt pass a mantle on to Franklin. Franklin finally got his life straightened around and got right with God, and like his father he is a gifted preacher. But it's not a mantle, I dont think.

In fact, I prefer to listen to Franklin more than I do Billy. Billy Graham always struck me as a bit dry. But thats more personal taste than anything else.

They BOTH are in grave error concerning the ecumenical movement tho. I totally disagree with their friendship and "fellowship" with the Roman Catholic Church.

Generally speaking tho, if there is a mighty moving of God in one generation, the next generation will usually find a way to squander it and mess it up. You see it all down thru the history of Israel, and it still happens in the Church today.

Krispy

 2008/2/6 10:34
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7470
Mississippi

 Re:

Seems to me we commit a grave error in assuming the son of a great preacher will be as spirit-filled, as correct as his father. If we look around we will see sons who are walking in the steps of their fathers in faithfulness. Krispy mentioned Franklin Graham...add to that I love to listen to Anne, a sister/daughter although there are issues with them all I vehemently disagree with. But I would guess they are decent people.

Now go to Franky Shaeffer, or Ryan Dobson...and I see questions and red flags and since that is the case I will not buy their books.... Just because a dad was a great man of God does not mean his off-spring will be, sad to say. Check out the history of the off-spring of the kings in the OT - human nature has not changed since, sad to say.

My opinion..

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2008/2/6 10:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
although there are issues with them all I vehemently disagree with. But I would guess they are decent people.



Billy Graham lives in Black Mountain, NC... which is just outside of Asheville. So he's practically my neighbor. Franklin lives in Boone, NC, which is an hour or so north of here.

You are correct that they are decent people. They are very well respected members of the community. The local news is right there everytime Billy ends up at Mission Hospital in Asheville.

This is a good example of how we can be very much in disagreement with a brother (in this case, over ecumenical issues), but still love and respect them. There can be no doubt that God has used Billy tremendously.

Krispy

 2008/2/6 11:31
Spitfire
Member



Joined: 2004/8/3
Posts: 633


 Re: I have a question

Quote:
We see this a lot in preaching and teaching circles, where the children and spouses of teachers and preachers come out with their own ministries and/or published books. Even among the false teachers and prophets. We even see instances where each member of the family has their own outreach.



It isn't just preachers and teachers whose kids end up doing the same thing. Very often, family members are involved in the same type of business as their parents. You see it in Hollywood, also. It's easier for a child of a famous named person to get enough recognition to make it in the entertainment business. These kids are taking advantage of an opportunity presented to them through association.

I went to a church where the pastor and his wife had 3 kids. As soon as the kids were old enough, the parents would give them responsibilities within the church, eg. leading worship, working with the youth or kids, teaching some class, etc. It was very frustrating to others who had been more qualified, but passed over. The church leadership became a family affair. The parents seemed to have more confidence in those kids than in their faithful flock. Qualified people with gifts simply sat in the chairs while their children got "promoted". One of their daughters lived in another state and was "backslidden". She eventually moved home and within a couple of months she was in charge of the nursery. Now I'm talking about a church with an average of about 300 on Sunday morning. It became obvious that this leadership wanted to keep it in the family. Many frustrated people left that church. It's still a family affair there. It's no different than a clique. And let's not forget that in most churches it's simply business. There's money to be made and it's easy money,too. They teach their kids the business.

 2008/2/7 6:14Profile





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